Dupont

[John_Mereness]

[alsancle]

This is from my slide collection.  A young Stan Smith with his father's car.

[alsancle]

From today’s Eastern Grand Classic.   Car came from Bill DuPont and owner told me it is the only known surviving roadster.

[alsancle]

Stan Smith's dad's car at the 1957 Cape May Tour.

 

Here is a link to the video: 

 

[alsancle]

On 7/13/2019 at 10:32 PM, alsancle said:

From today’s Eastern Grand Classic.   Car came from Bill DuPont and owner told me it is the only known surviving roadster.

 

And now for sale by Mark Hyman.

 

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6586-1929-dupont-model-g-waterhouse-roadster/

 

Since building a massive fortune in the gunpowder business during the 19th century, the du Pont family rose to prominence as one of America's most powerful industrial families. In the early 20th century, their interests expanded into the chemical industry, and then automobiles. Pierre S. du Pont was a crucial figure in rescuing General Motors after the notoriously unpredictable William "Billy" Durant nearly ran the company into the ground. Best known today for their global chemical business, the du Pont clan has been involved in a great many industries over time. One of the most intriguing projects was the Du Pont automobile of 1919-1930, a distinguished motorcar worthy of a famous family name.

 

1. Paul du Pont registered Du Pont Motors just before the outbreak of World War I, initially to build marine engines. Following the Armistice, the company shifted its focus to automobile production. As to not conflict with Pierre du Pont's interests in General Motors, the Du Pont automobile sat in the upper echelon of the market, along with Stutz, Pierce-Arrow, and the like. In a deliberate move to help the car stand out in a competitive market, Du Pont chose the 1919 International Salon rather than the New York Auto Show to debut the first model. Period advertisements proclaimed the Du Pont was "As aristocratic as its name."

 

The earliest Du Ponts used four-cylinder engines designed and built in-house, but later they switched to Herschell-Spillman, then Wisconsin engines, the latter being known for powering the original Stutz Bearcat. In 1929 Du Pont introduced its most famous, and most popular model of all, the Model G. It featured a 322 cubic-inch eight-cylinder L-head supplied by Continental engine and chassis options ranging from 125-inches to a stately 150-inches in wheelbase, with a range of spectacular bodies by prestigious builders including Merrimac, Derham, and Waterhouse. The Model G offered exceptional quality and high levels of performance. The raciest offering was a 2-seat speedster, which inspired a four-seat tourer that ran in the 1929 Le Mans 24 hour race, carrying the American flag alongside Stutz and Chrysler. The Du Pont showed promising performance but was eventually sidelined by mechanical troubles. The Model G proved to be Du Pont's final production car, as the receivers moved in after just 273 cars (and 3 Model H chassis). Like many of their counterparts in the prestige automobile market, the stock market crash that triggered the Great Depression sealed Du Pont Motors' fate, and despite their financial standings, the du Pont family saw no reason to keep the project afloat.

 

Presented in the splendid original shade of Sarasota Blue, this stunning Du Pont Model G is the only surviving example to feature the gorgeous 2-seat roadster coachwork by Waterhouse of Webster, Massachusetts. Chassis number G840 has a fascinating history, having been cared for by several noted collectors, including William F. Harrah and the du Pont family. This particular car is the sole surviving Waterhouse-bodied roadster, personally designed by Du Pont's Pacific Coast agent, Mr. E.A. Van Trump Jr, denoted by a special plaque on the dash. The specification includes a 142-inch wheelbase chassis, and the so-called West Coast Package, which added chrome wire wheels, radiator stone guard, winged radiator mascot, and single-tone paint on the body and fenders with a cream accent panel on the door. Standard cars generally had black wings and painted wheels, so this car's paint scheme and bright chrome give it a sophisticated and sporty character. Waterhouse is widely known for bodies of exquisite quality and style, and this car is certainly no exception. Mr. Van Trump presumably used the vehicle as a demonstrator before selling it in 1930 to its first private owner, Mr. Charles W. List of Los Angeles, who paid $6,500 for the privilege of owning this unique and prestigious Du Pont Model G.

 

List owned the car for 22 years, holding on to it through the darkest period of the Great Depression. He then sold it to Samuel Timpson of Inglewood, California, who owned it for the next 11 years. In 1963, G840 joined the world-famous collection of William F. Harrah in Reno, Nevada. The Du Pont remained a part of the collection until 1984 – four years after Harrah's death. It was purchased at a Harrah's auction by another world-famous collector, John Mozart. At the time of Mozart's purchase, the car was tired but remarkably complete, needing a full restoration. It stayed with Mozart briefly before returning to its roots in the hands of William K. du Pont. Before taking delivery, du Pont gave the car to Stu Laidlaw in California for a full restoration.

 

The initial restoration is well-documented through receipts and correspondence. In 1989, it returned to Delaware for the first time since 1930, back in the original family's hands. S/N G840 remained in the du Pont family collection for the following 27 years, only appearing occasionally at shows and special exhibits. The most recent owner acquired it from the du Pont family in 2012. At the time, the 1980s restoration was due for a refresh, so the new owner enlisted Steve Babinsky's highly-respected Automotive Restorations in Lebanon, New Jersey. Babinsky performed a world-class refurbishment to spectacular concours standards, completed in 2015. Numerous details were discovered to be unique to this car, including the build plaque with Mr. Van Trump's name, and the Du Pont-branded spring gaiters. The fit and finish of the coachwork are exemplary of Waterhouse's typically high standards, and the presentation is sublimely elegant in its original paint color, with subtle light blue accents, a straw-colored band in the door, and lush, dark blue leather interior.

 

Since its restoration, this stunning du Pont has participated in a handful of select concours events, scoring a class award at the 2015 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance. It also earned an AACA Senior National First Prize at Hershey in 2017, scoring 100 points and winning Best Open Car in its class, and a 100-point CCCA Senior First Prize. It remains in breathtaking, meticulously-detailed condition. As the sole-surviving Du Pont to feature this gorgeous Roadster coachwork by Waterhouse and exceptionally well-documented history, G840 is a superb choice for entry in the world's premier concours and touring events.

 

Offers welcome and trades considered

 

$1,250,000

 

 

[John_Mereness]

Makes some sence - I have seen more photos of this car this year than ... - I was always told that if you want top dollar you had better get it out and show it a couple times prior (obviously does not apply to anything, though it is a good rule of thumb nevertheless). 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, John_Mereness said:

Makes some sence - I have seen more photos of this car this year than ... - I was always told that if you want top dollar you had better get it out and show it a couple times prior (obviously does not apply to anything, though it is a good rule of thumb nevertheless). 

 

I've been told the same thing about showing, but I'm not sure I agree.   Wouldn't you rather have something nobody has seen in the last 50 years?

 

As for top dollar,  it seems to be that way.  Especially given what a bargain the Guyton victoria was.     But,  compared to the Cunningham,  would you say they are giving the Dupont away?

[John_Mereness]

On 11/19/2019 at 1:00 PM, alsancle said:

 

I've been told the same thing about showing, but I'm not sure I agree.   Wouldn't you rather have something nobody has seen in the last 50 years?

 

As for top dollar,  it seems to be that way.  Especially given what a bargain the Guyton victoria was.     But,  compared to the Cunningham,  would you say they are giving the Dupont away?

Sort of the problem - you want people to know the car, but you also want to be able to show it yourself.  I ran the Franklin around to a few Concours events, won its 1st  CCCA badge - I would say it allowed me an extra 20K on the sale via the badge matched to allowing quite a bit of word of mouth that it was a quality restoration. 

 

The Guyton cars suffered from all needing a few thousand of attention (aka, most had sat lot enough they needed road-worthiness and most needed a thorough detailing).

 

The Cunningham at anything over 100K  will be going nowhere for a long long time (and I am being generous in this comment) - Has strong potential though to be a really cool car on the showfield. 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, John_Mereness said:

Sort of the problem - you want people to know the car, but you also want to be able to show it yourself.  I ran the Franklin around to a few Concours events, won its 1st  CCCA badge - I would say it allowed me an extra 20K on the sale via the badge matched to allowing quite a bit of word of mouth that it was a quality restoration. 

 

The Guyton cars suffered from all needing a few thousand of attention (aka, most had sat lot enough they needed road-worthiness and most needed a thorough detailing).

 

The Cunningham at anything over 100K  will be going nowhere for a long long time (and I am being generous in this comment) - Has strong potential though to be a really cool car on the showfield. 

 

I'm probably fixating on one off stuff and rarely or never seen models.   Probably for the  production run Caddy or Packard or whatever I think I see your point that some show pedigree is helpful.    For the former stuff,  you could be goofing up a Pebble Beach invite by having its unvailing somewhere else first.

 

Agreed the Guyton cars suffered from sitting,  but I pegged that Waterhouse Dupont at 5-600k and was plenty surprised at the result.

 

Given the fully restored (with receipts for 250k) and much more attractive club sedan at Bonhams brought 80k I going with a  25k-50k estimate on the towncar.

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25221/lot/81/

[alsancle]

Btw,   I saw a guy laugh off a 99.5 senior badge at an auction as "only CCCA judging".    Personally,  I think a high 90s senior badge means you are looking at a really nice cosmetic car that is probably mostly correct but possibly not be perfect.

[trimacar]

Yes, but 99.5 means the car is cosmetically excellent up and down, all gauges work, all lights work, windshield wipers work, there's no significant corrosion in cooling system, and car starts and rens with no bad noises.  The only thing a CCCA judging doesn't tell you is how well car drives.

 

AACA judging means the car is excellent, cosmetically, and that's it.

[West Peterson]

On 11/18/2019 at 8:11 PM, alsancle said:

And now for sale by Mark Hyman.

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6586-1929-dupont-model-g-waterhouse-roadster/

 

Well,,, that's freakin' discouraging. I was just about to feature the car in Antique Automobile after photographing it at Hershey last year. !@#$%^&

[trimacar]

51 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

 

Well,,, that's freakin' discouraging. I was just about to feature the car in Antique Automobile after photographing it at Hershey last year. !@#$%^&

You can't feature a car that's currently for sale?  Or some other reason?

[West Peterson]

I do not knowingly feature a car that is currently for sale.

[edinmass]

Interesting that I have never seen the roadster before.....in photos or person. I really like it, as the unusual and obscure appeal to me. I tried to buy a speedster back just after college but even though I had what I though would buy the car.........I was short......... I needed to double what I had...... and that wasn’t going to happen. Now they are in the seven figures.........assuming you can find a speedster for sale. I don’t think any will be available in the foreseeable future.

 

 

The more I look at the roadster, the more I like it.

Edited November 22, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

28 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Interesting that I have never seen the roadster before.....in photos or person. I really like it, as the unusual and obscure appeal to me. I tried to buy a speedster back just after college but even though I had what I though would buy the car.........I was short......... I needed to double what I had...... and that wasn’t going to happen. Now they are in the seven figures.........assuming you can find a speedster for sale. I don’t think any will be available in the foreseeable future.

 

 

The more I look at the roadster, the more I like it.

waterhouse is like Dietrich in that they never made an ugly body.

[edinmass]

6 hours ago, alsancle said:

waterhouse is like Dietrich in that they never made an ugly body.

 

I agree.........but a few of the other major builders would often build what the customer would draw or request. Rollston built some very square and ugly town cars.

[alsancle]

6 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

I agree.........but a few of the other major builders would often build what the customer would draw or request. Rollston built some very square and ugly town cars.

Minor correction  Ed.  "Rollson" built some very ugly towncars.   I think before the name change & reorganization they were attractive almost always.   Maybe the reverse facing Pierce being an exception.

[John_Mereness]

On 7/13/2019 at 10:32 PM, alsancle said:

 

On 7/13/2019 at 10:32 PM, alsancle said:

 

 

[John_Mereness]

These are LA based publicity photos.  This should be the car bought new by Mr. Charles W. List of Los Angeles (and Jack Dempsey was just doing PR)

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[alsancle]

50 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

These are LA based publicity photos.  This should be the car bought new by Mr. Charles W. List of Los Angeles (and Jack Dempsey was just doing PR)

 

Funny,  I was just this morning reading Rick Carey's auction report on the Waterhouse Victoria which he thought was a deal and I agree!

[alsancle]

This picture is courtesy of our buddy Jason who is allowing me to post it.  Taken at I believe a CCCA Grand Classic in 1968.  Anyone recognize it?

[K8096]

Al Rodway was the owner then.   He would have sold it shortly after this photo was taken as he was out of the hobby by 1970.  I believe that was taken at Greenfield Village.   It's a 1928 Model G with Merrimac body.  

Edited February 1, 2020 by K8096 (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Talk about bolting on too much “Bling” ..................

[K8096]

"Talk about bolting on too much “Bling” .................."

 

That was Al Rodway in a nutshell.   Most of his cars were like that.   His favorite car was that tan & brown 1928 Cadillac phaeton with dual running board spotlights & Trippe Lights.   Here's the car in 1962.   It was at Hershey for sale maybe 10 years ago.   As you can see from the photo, Al liked to eat too.  

 

  

Edited February 1, 2020 by K8096 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

18 hours ago, K8096 said:

Al Rodway was the owner then.   He would have sold it shortly after this photo was taken as he was out of the hobby by 1970.  I believe that was taken at Greenfield Village.   It's a 1928 Model G with Merrimac body.  

 

If you drop the whitewalls,  the tacky lalique ornament,  the trippe lights,  etc, etc, etc,  there might be a cool car under there.

[John_Mereness]

19 hours ago, alsancle said:

This picture is courtesy of our buddy Jason who is allowing me to post it.  Taken at I believe a CCCA Grand Classic in 1968.  Anyone recognize it?

Wow, this is something that has not seen the light of day in a good long while.  Yes, needs "toned down" !  Factory lamps would help. 

[alsancle]

Just now, John_Mereness said:

Wow, this is something that has not seen the light of day in a good long while.  Yes, needs "toned down" !  Factory lamps would help. 

 

Agreed.  Wonder where it is hiding?   A Dupont Carriage house somewhere?

[John_Mereness]

Just now, alsancle said:

 

Agreed.  Wonder where it is hiding?   A Dupont Carriage house somewhere?

My guess is that it is Cleveland - lots of neat stuff still in Cleveland. 

[K8096]

Don’t think so.   I know just about everything prewar desirable up here.  When Rodway sold out, a lot of the cars went through Leo Gephart, who was a big time dealer in Dayton in believe.

[edinmass]

8 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

My guess is that it is Cleveland - lots of neat stuff still in Cleveland. 

Yup, there is still one mega garage that almost no one knows about...........and a few of us waiting to get in.........we call it “the house of the obscure and unusual Classics”................we will share the location with everyone..........after we are done picking it over!😏

Edited February 2, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

12 minutes ago, K8096 said:

Don’t think so.   I know just about everything prewar desirable up here.  When Rodway sold out, a lot of the cars went through Leo Gephart, who was a big time dealer in Dayton in believe.

A lot of cars went through Leo - he was in Englewood on North Dixie Drive - a northern suburb of Dayton.   A group of us rented a converted dairy barn about a mile more north ( a hub for Stearns knights, Franklin's, and 1931 Cadillac's) and regulalrly passed through his shop as a result - it was a hub on Saturday morning.  The Duesenberg's were handled by Ted Cull who was maybe two miles to the South on North Dixie Drive - also a really fun place - they ran sort of like a Duesenberg assembly line adding on passenger's side taillamps and ....

[John_Mereness]

Photo courtesy of Walt Gosden - 1927 duPont convertible sedan possibly model EO15

 

[alsancle]

There are next to zero photos of the E and F series Duponts.   And only photos of the dual cowl model H,  not the other 2 that were built.   99% of the photos are of the Model G.

[John_Mereness]

Here are two 1927 Model years 

 

[John_Mereness]

A 1927 Engine and Chassis 

[John_Mereness]

A 1928 Engine

[58L-Y8]

Here a better look at the '27 Dupont roadster.

[md murray]

Talk about stealth wealth. Pretty humble looking 1927 car for the price point wasn't it?

[58L-Y8]

For the $2,800 the DuPont roadster list price, seems like a Pierce-Arrow 80 roadster for about $100 more would have been a better choice. Or, save a few dollars, buy a snazzy new LaSalle roadster for $2525.   A Roamer 8-88 roadster for $2,750 was about on the same scale as an assembled car. But, it didn't have the DuPont name...