JV Puleo Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 This heat treated 4140 is not proving easy to machine. I spent the entire day experimenting with it (although I confess to not coming in until noon). I was finally able to get a good finish with a carbide lathe bit. The only problem here is that I have very few of these because I practically never use carbide...and what's worse, virtually all of them are made for a more modern "quick change" tool post rather than the old fashioned one all my other tools are ground for. I'm not anxious to change that. For the sort of one-off work I do, the lantern post works fine and is probably a bit more flexible. But, I'm exploring a completely different way of making these and have enlisted Terry Harper to help. Here's what we are dealing with...the "cross" in the hub. As you can see, the tabs are tapered. They do not go to the bottom of the slot either as the idea is that the hub cap will force the cross in until it's tight. This will work just fine IF it is tight. If it isn't, it will wear either the hub or the cross. In both cases, the crosses I have are worn and one of them so badly that someone welded up the driving edge. Here's where it gets tricky...the taper is very difficult to calculate and it has to be spot on for this to work. It MAY be a proprietary taper...known only to the maker of the hub or someone who has the original drawings. I have measured both the worn cross and the taper in the hub and come up with a taper of very slightly more than 3-degrees. Added to this, as member Gary Ash has correctly pointed out, tapers were figured in inches per foot in 1910...not in degrees but this may be something like 1" in some fraction of a foot... (like 1 in 1.25). So, this simple part is something that will take quite a bit of figuring to reverse engineer it. Because of that, I'm putting it aside for the time being while we try to figure the best way to do this. Thankfully, the square sleeves I need for the drive shaft arrived so I'll go on to that. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weathered1 Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Joe, I had some damaged gear teeth welded up by a specialty welding shop near me. The welds were to hard to machine but grinding worked well but slow. That may be another approach to repairing the hubs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 25, 2023 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 The welds are actually not too hard. The problem is matching the taper exactly and holding it in the mill to re-cut them. Terry says he can scan it and also double check the taper with his CNC mill so tomorrow I'll pack it up and send it to him. My current thinking is that I'll rough machine them and get someone with EDM equipment to put the tapers on and the square hole in the center. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 25, 2023 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) I'm a little stuck now...I've put the cross for the end of the axle off until Terry gets a chance to scan it and we can decide on how to go forward. The square hole sleeves came in for the ends of the drive shaft but to assemble it I need a specially ground end mill. I dropped that off this morning but won't have it back until next week. So...to keep busy and at least accomplish something I decided to make the dome headed bolts to attach the torque tube to the rear axle and the cover. Starting with these pieces of hex stock... Faced off so that they are identical in length. I managed to get four of them turned by the end of the day. I can't complain though. I just remind myself that all these things have to get done eventually so using a little job like this as a "filler" between the bigger ones is still making progress. Edited January 26, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) Like yesterday, not much exciting happened today. My HS car friend John Z stopped by... he and his brother are about the only people I know locally who have any idea what I'm doing. I did finish turning down the hex stock for the dome-headed bolts so tomorrow I can start threading them. Edited January 26, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 I started the day by putting in the reliefs for the end of the threads...all of which took very little time. Then set the lathe up to thread...cut the threads about 3/4 of the depth and finished them with this hex die... Which didn't work all that well. The big drawback here is that the die can go on slightly crooked, in which case the threads are not parallel to the bolt. That happened here...not enough to ruin the bolt but enough to make me thankful that I'd made a couple of extra ones. It would have been better to use my die holder but at this point I discovered that I didn't have a round 3/8-16 die. I must have had one at some point, it's a size that is as common as dirt but I couldn't find it. I then wasted an hour going to two different hardware stores in search of one but all they had were the hex dies. So, I went back to the shop and looked a bit more and came up with a really old one...2" in diameter. This die must be as old as the car, if not older but it was beautifully made and I also happen to have a die holder in that size that I made some time ago. This worked a lot better. It's an adjustable die so I set it to cut about 95% of the depth and finished it with the hex die. That worked just fine and I got a few of them done. I'll try to finish up tomorrow. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 The threading completed. Then back in the lathe to trim the head to 3/8" thick. Then I rigged the radius turning tool but discovered that, when I hold the bolt in a collet, it's too close to the spindle and I'll have to make something to hold the bolt away from the spindle. It's not a problem but I'll leave it for tomorrow. I did this before but I'll be damned if I can remember how... 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 30, 2023 Author Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) I picked up the special cutter I'll need for the next project and then made this little tool for the radius turning. It is a piece of 7/8" bar drilled & threaded 3/8-16 and counterbored so that the bolt will fit down to the head. The head of the bolt is now far enough away from the spindle to be worked. That worked well...so But wait...there's more! I was interrupted in mid-post ... I tried a couple of the new bolts in the cover. I don't dare bolt it down tight because it is slightly warped and not really flat. I'll have to fix that and I'll also make some brass washers rather than use those modern zinc plated ones. The next big job is the drive shaft. For that I bought two square hole sleeves with a 1" broached hole to fit over the pinion shaft and the output shaft of the transmission. According to a friend ho actually has a drive shaft, it was 1-1/4" in diameter. I'm going to use the 1-3/8" bar that was the "too short" axle I made. The sleeves have a 1-3/4 OD. On the original, the OD was larger and the corners were "clipped" so there was more metal there. I'm not taking any chances with that so I found two pieces of 1-3/4" ID DOM tubing. It's actually a bit smaller than 1-3/4" ID so I'll ream or hone the tubes out and press the sleeves into them. That should bore than reinforce them. Edited January 30, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 31, 2023 Author Share Posted January 31, 2023 I started today by cutting the square hole sleeves and the DOM tubing to slightly over 4" Then thought I'd knock of a simple job first, some heavy brass washers to go under the bolts on the differential cover and the torque tube...starting with these 1" squares with a 3/8" hole. Clamped on a 3/8" socket head screw to hold them. This isn't the most precise way to do this but, after all, they are just washers. All that went smoothly except it took twice as long as I'd anticipated... Then I went back to the drive shaft. I started by facing off one end of the two pieces of DOM tubing. These will get trimmed to 4". I also faced off the two pieces left over when I trimmed them. These will be used, with the cut off piece of the square hole sleeve, to calculate exactly what I have to do to press the DOM tubing over the sleeve. I think it's a better idea to experiment with these extra pieces rather than with the finished product. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 Today I faced off both ends of the shortest cut off piece of DOM tubing. An d reamed it 1-3/4". The extra piece of square hole sleeve just slipped in. I'd have liked it to be slightly tighter but that really isn't critical. With that done, I did the long pieces that will actually be used. And inserted the sleeves with Locktite. Eventually these will be pinned together so the Locktite is only there to hold everything secure while I machine it. To make the drive shaft, I cut one of the squared ends off the axle I'd made. And faced the end off. This is where it gets tricky. I don't have the original specs, nor do I have a drive shaft to copy. The square hole sleeves go on both ends, one for the pinion shaft and the other mating with the output end of the transmission. Until now, I hadn't really looked at the transmission and won't until I can give it my full attention. The round shaft is seated in the sockets which go over the square ends and, on the transmission end, this is inside the torque tube. So the round shaft has to be the distance between the square ends...which you can't see when things are assembled. Also, it has to be just a bit shorter or there won't be any room for adjustment. So, I'm going to have to make the shaft in such a manner than I can take it apart if it is too long and shorten it slightly. The round part will be permanently attached with tapered pins but I can't do that until I know everything fits. With all this in mind I reassembled the pinion shaft in the torque tube... And took some measurements. Tonight I'll make a drawing because I'm already getting confused and it's a lot easier to think on paper than it is to make something over! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Joe……all of it looks great. 👍 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 Thanks Ed. It is crawling along... It's amazing how much time it takes when you are concentrating on every little detail...but I imagine you know that better than most! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 39 minutes ago, JV Puleo said: Thanks Ed. It is crawling along... It's amazing how much time it takes when you are concentrating on every little detail...but I imagine you know that better than most! Joe , all looks good. This rear end assembly is about done, isnt it? mike 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 Almost. There is a lot if fitting yet and I haven't even started on the brakes and wheels but I'd say it's 90% of the way to be done. The cross pieces are also a question mark but I'm sure that we'll arrive at a workable solution. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, JV Puleo said: Almost. There is a lot if fitting yet and I haven't even started on the brakes and wheels but I'd say it's 90% of the way to be done. The cross pieces are also a question mark but I'm sure that we'll arrive at a workable solution. Joe, I got the Woods electric front end blasted, primered, and new thrust bearings installed . Because the new bearings width was shorter , I had to shim them up /I have a great selection hardened shim washers, that filled the order. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 That's great Mike. You're a lot faster than I am! I made a drawing based on my measurements and came up with an overall length of 27-5/8" and no sooner did I finish that than I got an email from another friend with a photo of one he's working on...and it's 27-1/4" long so my guess was very close. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 More drive shaft... with the Locktite set up, I faced off both of the ends and trimmed them so that they were both 4" long. I also faced trimmed the end of the shaft so it is 23-5/8" long. Then the ends went back in the lathe and were carefully indicated...in this case I don't think they are running out .0005 I then set up my fixture for boring or drilling to a specific depth with the special cutter I'd had ground. This worked as planned...except that the hole is too big. I'm sure that is the result of the quill on the lathe not being anywhere near as rigid as the spindle of the mill. It's a setback but one with a silver lining because now it will be much easier to adjust the length of the drive shaft. I have a plan for fixing this... The ends will be pinned to the shaft. I drilled and threaded a hole for a 1/4-20 set screw where the pin (which will be quite a bit larger) will go. This allows me to attache the ends and easily remove them so I can do all the machining on the individual pieces. The drive shaft roughly assembled... Then came the tough part...I needed to put this in the torque tube and line up the transmission to find out how much longer it is than the finished measurement. This was not easily done and it's one of the few times I wondered about the efficacy of working alone. The transmission weighs something like 75lbs. In any case, I was eventually able to do it... I had calculated that the drive shaft (actually the end that fits the transmission) was about 1/4" too long. It turned out to be about .260 so I've nothing to complain about there. It has to be slightly shorter than still to allow for adjustment on the pinion end so Ill take 1/4" off the transmission end and see how it fits...and probably another .100 off the pinion end. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Why is it every time I read this thread it brings joy to my heart? 🤔 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 Could it be that, like me, you like the idea of fixing something that almost no one else would even try? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, JV Puleo said: Could it be that, like me, you like the idea of fixing something that almost no one else would even try? It's Friday night at 9pm, and I'm in the shop fixing junk...........I think I'm gonna croak with a wrench in my hand smelling like safety kleen! 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 14 hours ago, JV Puleo said: Could it be that, like me, you like the idea of fixing something that almost no one else would even try? As you know I repair packaging machinery, from high end robotic stuff to simple bottom drive case sealers. One of my favorite things to hear is when a new customer calls me and say that a few other technicians have tried to fix their machine and can’t. When I get to their facility it’s almost exciting to dig in and get the thing repaired. Just a couple weeks ago while at a customer who’s machine needed parts, the customer offered to bring up their other machine (same model) that had been deemed un repairable by a factory tech so i could pull the needed parts off of it. Instead, I repaired that un repairable machine in about an hour and just ordered the parts for the other. Now the customer will have two machines instead of one. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) I can't say I'm surprised. Nearly anything is repairable but it takes understanding how it works. Sadly, that seems to be generally lacking but I won't go so far as to say that is a new development. One need only look at some of the hack work members of this forum are dealing with to appreciate that bad mechanics have always been with us. Some of the worst advice I got early in my old car adventure came from "old timers" who probably had never been all that good. Edited February 4, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) Today I took 1/4" off the sleeve at the transmission end and tried it on. I presume that the piece protruding from the transmission is a bearing with a lock of some sort...I won't know exactly how it works until I take it apart but there is a bolt in it and I think it wise that the sleeve bottom out on the drive shaft before it touches the bolt. The 1/4" seemed just about right. Then I reassembled it. I still have a gap, in this case about .150 but it's very difficult to line it up straight so, to some extent, I'm forced to guess. Also, the sleeve at the other end is up against the lock for the pinion thrust bearing and I'm not sure that is a good idea either. I took the pinion end off and removed .100. Then slipped the drive shaft in to see if it still bottomed on the pinion bearing lock. I was able to slip in a feeler gauge (maybe .025) but I wasn't concerned with the exact measurement so much as the fact that it didn't touch. Then I chased out the attachment threads on the transmission.... And put it all together again. It seems to have bolted up fine though I'm thinking of taking another .100 off the shaft. As it is, it measured exactly 27-1/4" which is the measurement a friend who happens to have one of these apart at the moment gave me so there is a good chance this is right. But...with all the changes and modifications I've made I'm not absolutely certain. I'm going to think about that before I do anything else. There will have to be gaskets on both ends of the torque tube so those may give be the additional length I may need. Also, I engaged the high gear and and turned it from the ring gear and everything seemed to function properly. Edited February 6, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 Today I went on with the drive shaft, starting by facing off the two extra pieces with squared ends. These may be useful as tools as I go forward...and the lathe was already set up. The new piece of heat treated 4140 came in Friday so I faced one end of that off as well. Then I took the transmission off the torque tube and removed the drive shaft. Because the round hole I bored is a bit too large I will make two steel bushings with an OD to match the hole and an ID of 1.25". I will turn the ends of the shaft down to be a press fit in the bushings. The goal is to press it all together and pin it but I will not put the pins in until the last moment, after most of the final assembly is done. This is because I cannot be certain what additional problems I might run into. Pressed together, I can press it apart. If I pin it...it's done forever and I'd have to start over. To do that I cut two 2" pieces of my rusty bar. These are much too big but I have it, it was free and there are a limited number of things I feel comfortable using "mystery metal" for. These get drilled and reamed to 1-1/4". Turning down the bar to match them will, of course, slightly weaken it but the original drive shaft was 1-1/4" so I think this heat treated 4140, which is a tougher steel than was originally used, will be fine. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 6, 2023 Author Share Posted February 6, 2023 I put the hole in the second piece of rusty bar... And started turning one down. This took quite a while because I was experimenting with different lathe bits. This old mill shafting is probably a low carbon steel and it doesn't turn will. getting the right finish can be a problem. Fortunately, I don't really want a perfectly smooth finish but still, it took a while to get the right speed and cut depth. I finished at 1.390. As you can see, there isn't much of the rusty bar left. Then I smeared it with Locktite press fit and pressed it in. For a moment I was afraid I'd made it too small but the press got tighter as it went in so I'm completely satisfied with the outcome. The 1/8" sticking up will be trimmed off...but I may as well do the second one while the Locktite sets up. And I had just enough time to start on the second bushing. They get pretty hot as each layer is removed, sometimes hot enough to expand a little and slip on the expanding mandrel so I went about half-way and I'll let it cool over night. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) I finished the second bushing and pressed it in, again with Locktite on it although it was a tight enough press so that may have been redundant. Then back in the lathe to have the 1/8" that stuck out taken off. I'd have let the Locktite set on the second one if it hadn't been a good press fit. I really don't think these could have come out any better. I was going to turn down the ends of the 1-3/8" shaft I made for this but in thinking about it, I will just get a piece of 1-1/4" heat treated 4140. That will make it a neater job although I'll be the only one (aside from those who follow this thread) who will ever know that. I also took a few minutes to look at this. It's the Bosch buzzer coil that is intended to work with the magneto I'll be using. From the serial number I can tell the mag was made in 1912. This switch is marked "Made in USA" but it isn't marked "American Bosch" which, I think, means it pre-dates WWI since the Bosch assets in the US were seized at the beginning of the war and sold to an American company, hence the name "American Bosch." I'm not sure I'll use it. It is damaged and should be rewound. I don't think it can be relied on to continue to work even if it does now...though it hasn't been tested. It wasn't easy to find but through the kind offices of a member here I was able to locate one. The cover is also missing so if I use it, I'll have to make one. It was getting near the end of the day so I didn't want to start anything else but I did set up the new axle to mill the square ends, this time taking a lot of care leveling it. Tomorrow I'll find out how well I did. Edited February 7, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) Today I milled one square end on the axle. I still don't think these are perfect but using the damaged "cross" I can see it fits. If it fits here, it should fit in the spider gear. Then into the lathe to put the chamfer on the leading edge. And I tried it in the housing making sure this time to engage the spider gears. I measured and marked it and cut it off...leaving a little extra for finishing. Then back to the lathe to face the end off. At this point I discovered I'd missed something. The squared ends are not the same depth. The inside square is 1.130 and the outside square 1.3. I hadn't noticed that and could easily have made a bad mistake here. Fortunately, I did notice it in time and the square I'd already made was the correct depth. I have enough problems with math when I'm alert but at the end of the day I'm not. It actually looks as if I didn't cut enough off the axle but rather than take a chance I cleaned it up and put it back in the housing to measure again. I'll get it right tomorrow and then do the other square. It looks as if it's still about .060 too long. Edited February 8, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 I started today by remeasuring the new axle. To do that, I pushed it in so that it was fully seated in the spider gear then attached a shaft collar. I measured the with of the collar and the distance the axle protruded and added them. It came out to 1.345 or .045 longer than the original axle. I decided not to shorten it because the small additional amount it sticks out will have no effect on how it works. Then into the mill. I set this up to make a flat 1.350 wide. This takes time but by 3:30 I was done, testing it with the damaged cross. Then back to the lathe to put the chamfer on it. And then tried it in the housing... Everything was good so I put the cross on... This was the last major part I had to make for the rear axle/torque tube. There is still a lot of fitting and finishing to do but aside from the brakes and the crosses' I'm very near finishing this part of the job. My goal is to assemble it, paint it and roll it into storage in our warehouse ... out of sight and out of mind until it's needed. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Thats great news ! Great job Joe, She will operate like a WALTHAM WATCH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 I'm back to wondering what I should do next and I'm thinking, the brakes. I'll put the backing plates back on and give that some thought tomorrow. I did a bit of straightening up and putting things away today and I cut down the thickness of the clamps I made for the rear wheel bearings. when I designed these I made several errors, one of which is that I didn't take into consideration the cross piece. At the least, they are too thick. It may be that the OD is too big as well so there is a reasonable chance I'll be making them over. But, until I've made the new crosses and have them in hand it is pointless to pursue this. To cut down the thickness I mounted them on the threading gauge I used to make them. And took off as much metal as I could leaving about .050 on either side of the head of the socket-head cap screw. The thickness isn't really all that important and has more to do with accommodating the cap screw than it does with the part holding tight. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 I've been thinking about those nuts (for lack of a better term) that hold the rear wheels bearings together and I've pretty much decided to make them over. These might work but I'm certain I can do better. I made a drawing last night, then came in to check some measurements and decided to do the drawing over...in the meantime I thought I'd finish up the stand I invented to hold the wheels for painting. I already made the rollers so today I drilled and tapped the end of some 1" aluminum square stock. Then did the same thing at the other end, 90-degrees off. The rollers dare mounted on 5/8" shoulder bolts so when fully tightened, they still roll. And the two stanchions will be attached to a piece of angle iron screwed to this scrap of 2x12 that I planed to get it flat. But, I forgot my drawing and don't remeber how far apart the stanchions are supposed to be so I'll get back to this tomorrow. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) I finished the wheel stand today, drilling holes in the piece of angle... And bolting everything together. The only parts of the wheel that touch the stand will not be painted. It isn't quite as sturdy as I'd like but that may be partly the result of the barrel it's sitting on not being bolted down. In any case, it isn't intended to take a lot of stress, just hold the wheel so I can brush paint it without touching a painted surface. I'm a long was from putting this to use though. I also did some more figuring about the rear axle. I have decided to make the rear hubcaps...for two reasons. I only have one that is usable and have been unable to find another. The bad one (on top) is not only chewed up from a pipe wrench but it's cracked around the top edge. These caps are cast, unlike the front caps which are stamped, and play critical role in the function of the rear axle since they hold the crosses and the axles in. In his engineering manual PM Heldt suggests incorporating locks in the design so the caps can't unscrew...a good idea that Mitchell-Lewis did not incorporate. The biggest problem with doing this, and what has held me back, is finding bronze tubing large enough. Last night something came to me...a cast bronze bushing! I can get a bushing that is 4.25 ID and 5" OD...exactly right for the threaded portion of the cap. They aren't cheap (something like $100) but one 5" bushing will make both caps. I will have to make the top separately so I will make a pattern and have it cast. This is a case where 3D printing would be useful since I'd guess that it could be done by the lost PLA method that Gary has demonstrated and the castings would be smoother than a sand casting. They will have to be machined in any case and I'm hoping I can do this without the new cap looking too clunky. Edited February 12, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 I've little to show for today's efforts. I made a trip to the post office and then cleaned up the workbench next to the lathe...something that was very overdue. I also spent time planning the next moves but the material I ordered last night won't be in for a few days. I also reassembled one of the hubs since I'll be working on the bearing lock nuts and the crosses and I need these in place to do that. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 (edited) I could 3D print a pattern for you but need a bunch of dimensions. Just guessing dimensions from the photos and your statement that you could machine a 4.25 x 5 bushing, here is a rough approximation from my CAD program. Can you sketch a cross section and dimension it? I probably have the wall thickness too big as the estimated weight is 3.5 lbs in silicon bronze. Top view Rear view Edited February 14, 2023 by Gary_Ash (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 I'm super interested in the 3d print and cast method as I might need to do that for my caps. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 Thanks Gary...I'll send you a drawing tonight when I get home. I have to make them in two pieces because I can't thread up to a stop. For internal threads I have to go through. I do need patterns for the tops though. I did the drawing with that in mind...Also, because of all the changes I've made, mostly the bearings and the fact that I'd like to incorporate some features that P.M. Heldt mentions in his design manual, they won't be exactly the same size as the originals and will have to be adjusted on the chassis after I've made the crosses. Since I'm waiting on materials, I picked up one of the small jobs that I keep on hand for just such an occasion. These will be brake tension adjusters. The original design used a single spring...one of which I damaged removing it. What I'd like to do is connect the spring with a turnbuckle so it can be loosened to remove it and tightened to adjust the pressure. The problem is getting all that in the space available and making use of the attachment points on the internal brake band. I started with some pieces I'd gotten from McMaster Carr. They were a lot rougher than I'd anticipated and in order to thread one I had to turn it down to 1/4" It didn't turn or thread well and because it was held in the collet I was unable to get close enough to the end. I then came up with a different idea...starting with a piece of 1/2" rod drilled and tapped 1/4-28 cross ways... I cut that piece off and turned the ends down so it was just a tiny bit wider than 1/4". That was screwed on to a piece of 1/4" brass rod that I threaded using solder flux as the lubricant. Then I soldered the two together. I cleaned that up and drilled a 3/6 hole through the center. That worked on one end but would not slip on to the S hooks I have so I used a center drill to chamfer both sides. That worked a charm. I then went on to make the remaining 3 rods...two have RH threads and two have LH threads. This should work just fine...I'll make the ends tomorrow and the turnbuckle...and I may make the lock nuts as well because I don't have any LH nuts. And, at the end of the day the piece of bar came in for the drive shaft so I've got plenty to keep me busy tomorrow. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 I fiddled the day away working on these brake parts...starting over with some 9/16 brass rod for the ends. Everything went fine...and I soldered the heads to the shafts. At which point, everything went sideways. For some reason, I'm not exactly sure what I did, I was unable to get the through hole in the center...the first one was marginal, the second was not so tonight I'll work on another solution and tomorrow I may fit the drive shaft while I think about it. On the positive side, Gary Ash is making the patterns for the dub cap tops for me. Thanks Gary! and Terry Harper is working on figuring out what the exact angle of taper on the cross pieces is so progress is being made. Also, this came in. It's the biggest bushing I've ever bought but it will make both of the rear hub caps. As I've said before, I can 't thread up to a stop with my lathe which makes threading a one-piece hub cap impossible. There are lathes that will do it...in fact, I have one but it's apart and who knows when I'll have the time to reassemble it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 Can you set the carriage stop with the threading bit as far in as you want to go and thread from the inside out, i.e. left to right instead of right to left? Here is the top of the hub cap with some small fillets. I'll set up the 3D printer for two of these. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 Perfect! If you thread from left to right you get a LH thread. You'll notice that when I do a RH thread I have to put a relief in at the end of the threads. That is to stop the thread at a specific point but the only way I can do that is to release the half-nuts. Doing that in a blind hole would be impossible because I can't see the exact place to stop. The Hendey lathe could do it because there was a release built in to the design but Hendey had a completely different method of threading, quite unlike virtually all other lathes. I've never seen it done. I have a 16" Hendey but it was apart when it was given to me and I've never had the time to go through it. It would be at least six months work to get it operational. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyAus Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Not impossible. All you need to do is cut an internal relief where the thread is to end. 0ne thread wide and deep is enough. Set your threading tool so its point enters the the relief and mark its shank where it enters the hole to be threaded (some tape, paint or what have you). This establishes a disengagement point for the half nuts. Cutting the thread at your lowest available speed will give you time to disengage. Works for me every time and if your reflexes are better than mine the relief could be dispensed with. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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