old-tank Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Leave the carb alone! Check the timing and for sure reduce the idle speed. If the idle speed has to set high in Park to keep it fast enough in Drive, then check for vacuum leaks (or turn it off while in Drive and be sure to shift to Park right away). Using higher octane fuel will help, maybe try a different brand. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, old-tank said: Leave the carb alone! Check the timing and for sure reduce the idle speed. If the idle speed has to set high in Park to keep it fast enough in Drive, then check for vacuum leaks (or turn it off while in Drive and be sure to shift to Park right away). Using higher octane fuel will help, maybe try a different brand. Idle is definitely high, as the car leaps when put in gear, but I've been scared to turn it down and risk the car stalling. I will turn it down some and check the timing. I did just fill up too... but it was at my usual spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredmechanic74 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, wndsofchng06 said: Drove her all over this weekend. Now she's dieseling when I cut her off. Guess I need to go ahead and rebuild the carb and then go through tuning and timing. You have a vacuum leak, Did the car backfire at any time? The carb is ether loose on the manifold or a line came off or the body to base gasket on the carb is bad. With the aircleaner off see if you can turn the carb back and forth if tight use some carb cleaner and spray it around the carb and intake gaskets while it is running. When you said it was dieseling that is what has me convinced it's a vac. leak. Also if you have power brakes check to see if the booster is leaking. Edited February 4, 2018 by retiredmechanic74 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, retiredmechanic74 said: You have a vacuum leak, Did the car backfire at any time? The carb is ether loose on the manifold or a line came off or the body to base gasket on the carb is bad. With the aircleaner off see if you can turn the carb back and forth if tight use some carb cleaner and spray it around the carb and intake gaskets while it is running. When you said it was dieseling that is what has me convinced it's a vac. leak. No backfire, but I did notice after warming up, my wipers slowed way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredmechanic74 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, wndsofchng06 said: No backfire, but I did notice after warming up, my wipers slowed way down. I got a feeling the carb is loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, retiredmechanic74 said: I got a feeling the carb is loose. Interesting. I'll check it. I did have the carb off back in the summer to fix stuck secondaries. Surprised it runs so good otherwise if it's got that much vacuum leak. It's started raining and getting cold, so I'll save this check for next weekend. Edited February 4, 2018 by wndsofchng06 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, wndsofchng06 said: No backfire, but I did notice after warming up, my wipers slowed way down. Check the vacuum lines at the fuel pump and/or plug the one going to the manifold as a test. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredmechanic74 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, wndsofchng06 said: Interesting. I'll check it. I did have the carb off back in the summer to fix stuck secondaries. Surprised it runs so good otherwise if it's got that much vacuum leak. It's started raining and getting cold, so I'll save this check for next weekend. the secondaries could be stuck again. It will cause the same symptoms. Generally when a car diesels when shutting down it's because there is a vac. leak below the throttle plates of the carb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Whats your idle set currently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Beemon said: Whats your idle set currently? No clue, haven't messed with it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Throw a tach on that bad boy. If you don't know, it could be too high. I usually drive 500-600 without issue, except for when the fast idle gets stuck. How's your fast idle working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Beemon said: Throw a tach on that bad boy. If you don't know, it could be too high. I usually drive 500-600 without issue, except for when the fast idle gets stuck. How's your fast idle working? Haven't paid attention to that either. I only drive it about once a week and rarely very far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Its still could out isn't it? I've noticed with the WCFB, it needs a little bit more attention to the adjustment of the fast idle. Sometimes mine comes off, sometimes it doesn't, so I really need to get back in there and reposition my arm, but as I understand it, it should be set so that when the choke is fully open, the cam is fully down. Confirming fast idle cam movement, fast idle cam and idle RPM is probably what you're dealing with here. Also idle at start up with no fast idle will always be lower than idle before shut off after a long drive, from my experience. Hence the need for fast idle to keep a cold engine running at start up. I'm willing to bet your RPM is just too high and it's deceling because it's turning too fast when you turn the key off. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) Still haven't messed with the carb. The trans mounts are bad enough now I have a hard time keeping it in reverse. Changed the fuel filter....was definitely time. Edited February 24, 2018 by wndsofchng06 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 This is the problem I described with the starter a few posts back.... does it even when I bypass the relay. Will probably pull the starter later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Well your bendix is definitely working. It's most likely the contact in the solenoid got hung up somehow and it's not allowing the armature to spin, or the switch wires are grounding out somewhere. When I did mine, it was a lot of fun with just normal box wrenches.. make sure you have a boxed end that has a 45 degree bend to it to get at the block hugger bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Beemon said: Well your bendix is definitely working. It's most likely the contact in the solenoid got hung up somehow and it's not allowing the armature to spin, or the switch wires are grounding out somewhere. When I did mine, it was a lot of fun with just normal box wrenches.. make sure you have a boxed end that has a 45 degree bend to it to get at the block hugger bolt. If it is the solenoid, just replace or service that. Check that the solenoid is transferring 12v to the starter. If not the solenoid is bad; if 12v to the starter and no spin then the starter is bad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, old-tank said: If it is the solenoid, just replace or service that. Check that the solenoid is transferring 12v to the starter. If not the solenoid is bad; if 12v to the starter and no spin then the starter is bad. sorry I didn't take photos but we pulled the starter off and completely disassembled the starter and the solenoid. As it would turn out filling the solenoid and starter with Muddy coolant for years does not help it. (See replaced freeze plug a few months back.) Anyhow the internal contacts on both were very dirty and corroded. Thoroughly cleaned everything up, reassembled, and so far so good. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 There's a little copper disc inside the solenoid In the center, and a little copper finger that contacts it. Those were so boogers up, lots of delicate sanding with the dremelon low until I had nice new copper surfaces. The starter will need brushes in the not too distant future, but for now I cleaned up what I had and moved on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 Drove it to work today. Couldn't resist the photo op on the way home. Once I got home the starter is acting up again, car won't start... ugh. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmfconsult Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 That photo looks like it belongs in the Spring Time Buicks thread. Spring is springing late around here, so nice to see some blossoms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 Late? you mean early? I can't believe how many things here in NC have bloomed and it's still February! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 After 8 presses of the pedal it turned and started right up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, wndsofchng06 said: After 8 presses of the pedal it turned and started right up My 56 takes more than one pump of the gas pedal too Matt. At this time of the year I crank it for two 3 second sessions with just one pump each, in case it starts. Then a few pumps and it's usually firing and running. Then I'll keep my foot in it a bit, maybe to 1500 RPM or so by the sound of it, then slowly let off the gas pedal till the linkage is running on the fast idle. But with your starter problem that may not be possible. Have you changed the battery cables, especially the one from the regulator to the starter? Till I changed that one in the GS when I did my timing chain I never would have thought a 50K mile cable could have been in such deteriorated condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said: My 56 takes more than one pump of the gas pedal too Matt. At this time of the year I crank it for two 3 second sessions with just one pump each, in case it starts. Then a few pumps and it's usually firing and running. Then I'll keep my foot in it a bit, maybe to 1500 RPM or so by the sound of it, then slowly let off the gas pedal till the linkage is running on the fast idle. But with your starter problem that may not be possible. Have you changed the battery cables, especially the one from the regulator to the starter? Till I changed that one in the GS when I did my timing chain I never would have thought a 50K mile cable could have been in such deteriorated condition. I meant it took 8 presses to get the starter to move..... otherwise it's just the solenoid throwing the gear forward. I did check the cables and cleaned up the ends, didn't replace. Once the starter actually turns, the car starts with ease. I had the whole thing apart and everything looked ok besides the solenoid contacts, which I cleaned up to bright shiny again.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Ah-ha. I missed that. Carry on. But I'd still invest in some new cables before tear down again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 Whats really frustrating is the unpredictability. sometimes it turns on the first press, sometimes the 20th.... doesn't matter hot or cold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmfconsult Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, wndsofchng06 said: Late? you mean early? I can't believe how many things here in NC have bloomed and it's still February! Early for you, late for us up here in the Pacific NW.... I was shovelling a foot of snow last Saturday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 carry a hammer to smack the starter or change the brushes and bushings. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 Damn! I was hoping you wouldn't say that. What's the best way to get the old bushings out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) Use a tap that will engage the bushing and when it bottoms out the bushing will come out. Also be sure that your refurbished solenoid is actually transferring 12v to the starter when it is engaged. Everybody should have extra starters for times like this : Edited February 28, 2018 by old-tank (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, old-tank said: Use a tap that will engage the bushing and when it bottoms out the bushing will come out. Also be sure that your refurbished solenoid is actually transferring 12v to the starter when it is engaged. Everybody should have extra starters for times like this : I have a few, just gotta dig them out of the parts building Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) Ordered bushings and brushes today. This weekend I'll get out and dig up all my parts starters and put together the best of the batch. Today was also my last tuition payment for grad school, so next month I can cover my southern debts on the next project! ? Edited March 6, 2018 by wndsofchng06 (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 Parts starters found. One thing I forgot is to order a new rubber boot for the solenoid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 I fear my parts starters are in variations of the same state..... Sad! One thing I noticed is the brushes are slightly different in each one, and the bearing thing behind the gear is different on one. Anyone know why? Hoping I can just rebuild mine, although the teeth on the gear are a little rough on the edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 The "bearing thing" is the bendix clutch. Rotate the bendix, if it makes a groaning noise the clutch is bad. If it's smooth, you're good to go. Those don't look too bad. The starter on my car came straight from the junkyard, the same donor as my power steering pump. Go buy a scotch brite pad from your local grocery store and just rub down the oxidation and corrosion on both the field coils and the armature. New brushes should be fine. If there's little to no wobble in the bushings on both ends, don't sweat it. The starter isn't used all the time like a generator. The important part is going to be new brushes and making sure the solenoid throws out AND spins the armature. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Starter saga continues..... paint is drying on the case, so no trials today. Cleaned up the solenoid disc, got the new bushings and brushes in, traded the bendix for a slightly better gear, I'll be out of town this weekend, so next week the starter will go back on. Edited March 17, 2018 by wndsofchng06 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 afraid to get your hands dirty? I kid! I wish I could afford gloves, would make my hands less sticky after playing with lube. How'd you paint the pieces? Correct is aluminum base plate with semi gloss body and plain cast iron head. Fasteners and plunger throw out arm are cad plated, from my observations. The unit I pulled from the junkyard also had the solenoid body painted semi gloss, too. Did you ever find a replacement solenoid boot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Beemon said: afraid to get your hands dirty? I kid! I wish I could afford gloves, would make my hands less sticky after playing with lube. How'd you paint the pieces? Correct is aluminum base plate with semi gloss body and plain cast iron head. Fasteners and plunger throw out arm are cad plated, from my observations. The unit I pulled from the junkyard also had the solenoid body painted semi gloss, too. Did you ever find a replacement solenoid boot? My day job prefers I not have mechanic hands, lol. Nitrile gloves are cheap at harbor freight. I have two starters that are green and two black, so i painted mine red. Jk. It's green. CARS had the boot! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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