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1954 century sedan. GA to NC


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Leave the carb alone!  Check the timing and for sure reduce the idle speed.  If the idle speed has to set high in Park to keep it fast enough in Drive, then check for vacuum leaks (or turn it off while in Drive and be sure to shift to Park right away).  Using higher octane fuel will help, maybe try a different brand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, old-tank said:

Leave the carb alone!  Check the timing and for sure reduce the idle speed.  If the idle speed has to set high in Park to keep it fast enough in Drive, then check for vacuum leaks (or turn it off while in Drive and be sure to shift to Park right away).  Using higher octane fuel will help, maybe try a different brand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Idle is definitely high, as the car leaps when put in gear, but I've been scared to turn it down and risk the car stalling.  I will turn it down some and check the timing. I did just fill up too... but it was at my usual spot. 

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2 hours ago, wndsofchng06 said:

Drove her all over this weekend.  Now she's dieseling when I cut her off.  Guess I need to go ahead and rebuild the carb and then go through tuning and timing.

You have a vacuum leak, Did the car backfire at any time? The carb is ether loose on the manifold or a line came off or the body to base gasket on the carb is bad. With the aircleaner off see if you can turn the carb back and forth if tight use some carb cleaner and spray it around the carb and intake gaskets while it is running. When you said it was dieseling that is what has me convinced it's a vac. leak. Also if you have power brakes check to see if the booster is leaking.

Edited by retiredmechanic74 (see edit history)
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2 minutes ago, retiredmechanic74 said:

You have a vacuum leak, Did the car backfire at any time? The carb is ether loose on the manifold or a line came off or the body to base gasket on the carb is bad. With the aircleaner off see if you can turn the carb back and forth if tight use some carb cleaner and spray it around the carb and intake gaskets while it is running. When you said it was dieseling that is what has me convinced it's a vac. leak. 

No backfire,  but I did notice after warming up,  my wipers slowed way down. 

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9 minutes ago, retiredmechanic74 said:

I got a feeling the carb is loose.

Interesting.  I'll check it. I did have the carb off back in the summer to fix stuck secondaries.  Surprised it runs so good otherwise if it's got that much vacuum leak.  It's started raining and getting cold,  so I'll save this check for next weekend. 

Edited by wndsofchng06 (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, wndsofchng06 said:

Interesting.  I'll check it. I did have the carb off back in the summer to fix stuck secondaries.  Surprised it runs so good otherwise if it's got that much vacuum leak.  It's started raining and getting cold,  so I'll save this check for next weekend. 

 the secondaries could be stuck again. It will cause the same symptoms. Generally when a car diesels when shutting down it's because there is a vac. leak below the throttle plates of the carb.

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Throw a tach on that bad boy. If you don't know, it could be too high. I usually drive 500-600 without issue, except for when the fast idle gets stuck. How's your fast idle working?

 

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3 minutes ago, Beemon said:

Throw a tach on that bad boy. If you don't know, it could be too high. I usually drive 500-600 without issue, except for when the fast idle gets stuck. How's your fast idle working?

 

Haven't paid attention to that either.  I only drive it about once a week and rarely very far.

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Its still could out isn't it? I've noticed with the WCFB, it needs a little bit more attention to the adjustment of the fast idle. Sometimes mine comes off, sometimes it doesn't, so I really need to get back in there and reposition my arm, but as I understand it, it should be set so that when the choke is fully open, the cam is fully down. Confirming fast idle cam movement, fast idle cam and idle RPM is probably what you're dealing with here. Also idle at start up with no fast idle will always be lower than idle before shut off after a long drive, from my experience. Hence the need for fast idle to keep a cold engine running at start up. I'm willing to bet your RPM is just too high and it's deceling because it's turning too fast when you turn the key off.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well your bendix is definitely working. It's most likely the contact in the solenoid got hung up somehow and it's not allowing the armature to spin, or the switch wires are grounding out somewhere. When I did mine, it was a lot of fun with just normal box wrenches.. make sure you have a boxed end that has a 45 degree bend to it to get at the block hugger bolt.

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1 hour ago, Beemon said:

Well your bendix is definitely working. It's most likely the contact in the solenoid got hung up somehow and it's not allowing the armature to spin, or the switch wires are grounding out somewhere. When I did mine, it was a lot of fun with just normal box wrenches.. make sure you have a boxed end that has a 45 degree bend to it to get at the block hugger bolt.

If it is the solenoid, just replace or service that.  Check that the solenoid is transferring 12v to the starter.  If not the solenoid is bad; if 12v to the starter and no spin then the starter is bad.

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1 hour ago, old-tank said:

If it is the solenoid, just replace or service that.  Check that the solenoid is transferring 12v to the starter.  If not the solenoid is bad; if 12v to the starter and no spin then the starter is bad.

 sorry I didn't take photos but we pulled the starter off and completely disassembled the starter and the solenoid.  As it would turn out filling the solenoid and starter with Muddy coolant for years does not help it. (See replaced freeze plug a few months back.) Anyhow the internal contacts on both were very dirty and corroded. Thoroughly cleaned everything up,  reassembled, and so far so good.

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 There's a little copper disc inside the solenoid In the center, and a little copper finger that contacts it.  Those were so boogers up,  lots of delicate sanding with the dremelon low until I had nice new copper surfaces.  The starter will need brushes in the not too distant future,  but for now I cleaned up what I had and moved on. 

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11 minutes ago, wndsofchng06 said:

After 8 presses of the pedal it turned and started right up

 

My 56 takes more than one pump of the gas pedal too Matt.  At this time of the year I crank it for two 3 second sessions with just one pump each, in case it starts.  Then a few pumps and it's usually firing and running.  Then I'll keep my foot in it a bit, maybe to 1500 RPM or so by the sound of it, then slowly let off the gas pedal till the linkage is running on the fast idle.  But with your starter problem that may not be possible. 

 

Have you changed the battery cables, especially the one from the regulator to the starter?  Till I changed that one in the GS when I did my timing chain I never would have thought a 50K mile cable could have been in such deteriorated condition.

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3 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

 

My 56 takes more than one pump of the gas pedal too Matt.  At this time of the year I crank it for two 3 second sessions with just one pump each, in case it starts.  Then a few pumps and it's usually firing and running.  Then I'll keep my foot in it a bit, maybe to 1500 RPM or so by the sound of it, then slowly let off the gas pedal till the linkage is running on the fast idle.  But with your starter problem that may not be possible. 

 

Have you changed the battery cables, especially the one from the regulator to the starter?  Till I changed that one in the GS when I did my timing chain I never would have thought a 50K mile cable could have been in such deteriorated condition.

I meant it took 8 presses to get the starter to move.....  otherwise it's just the solenoid throwing the gear forward.  I did check the cables and cleaned up the ends, didn't replace.  Once the starter actually turns, the car starts with ease.  I had the whole thing apart and everything looked ok besides the solenoid contacts, which I cleaned up to bright shiny again....

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2 hours ago, wndsofchng06 said:

Late?  you mean early?  I can't believe how many things here in NC have bloomed and it's still February!

 

Early for you, late for us up here in the Pacific NW.... I was shovelling a foot of snow last Saturday! 

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Use a tap that will engage the bushing and when it bottoms out  the bushing will come out.

Also be sure that your refurbished solenoid is actually transferring 12v to the starter when it is engaged.

Everybody should have extra starters for times like this ::D

Edited by old-tank (see edit history)
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5 minutes ago, old-tank said:

Use a tap that will engage the bushing and when it bottoms out  the bushing will come out.

Also be sure that your refurbished solenoid is actually transferring 12v to the starter when it is engaged.

Everybody should have extra starters for times like this ::D

I have a few, just gotta dig them out of the parts building

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Ordered bushings and brushes today.  This weekend I'll get out and dig up all my parts starters and put together the best of the batch.  Today was also my last tuition payment for grad school, so next month I can cover my southern debts on the next project! ?

Edited by wndsofchng06 (see edit history)
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I fear my parts starters are in variations of the same state..... Sad!   One thing I noticed is the brushes are slightly different in each one, and the bearing thing behind the gear is different on one.  Anyone know why?  Hoping I can just rebuild mine, although the teeth on the gear are a little rough on the edges.

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The "bearing thing" is the bendix clutch. Rotate the bendix, if it makes a groaning noise the clutch is bad. If it's smooth, you're good to go. Those don't look too bad. The starter on my car came straight from the junkyard, the same donor as my power steering pump. Go buy a scotch brite pad from your local grocery store and just rub down the oxidation and corrosion on both the field coils and the armature. New brushes should be fine. If there's little to no wobble in the bushings on both ends, don't sweat it. The starter isn't used all the time like a generator. The important part is going to be new brushes and making sure the solenoid throws out AND spins the armature. 

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Starter saga continues..... paint is drying on the case, so no trials today.  Cleaned up the solenoid disc, got the new bushings and brushes in, traded the bendix for a slightly better gear, I'll be out of town this weekend,  so next week the starter will go back on. 

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Edited by wndsofchng06 (see edit history)
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 afraid to get your hands dirty? :P I kid! I wish I could afford gloves, would make my hands less sticky after playing with lube. How'd you paint the pieces? Correct is aluminum base plate with semi gloss body and plain cast iron head. Fasteners and plunger throw out arm are cad plated, from my observations. The unit I pulled from the junkyard also had the solenoid body painted semi gloss, too.

 

Did you ever find a replacement solenoid boot? 

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2 hours ago, Beemon said:

 afraid to get your hands dirty? :P I kid! I wish I could afford gloves, would make my hands less sticky after playing with lube. How'd you paint the pieces? Correct is aluminum base plate with semi gloss body and plain cast iron head. Fasteners and plunger throw out arm are cad plated, from my observations. The unit I pulled from the junkyard also had the solenoid body painted semi gloss, too.

 

Did you ever find a replacement solenoid boot? 

My day job prefers I not have mechanic hands, lol. Nitrile gloves are cheap at harbor freight.  I have two starters that are green and two black,  so i painted mine red.  Jk. It's green.  CARS had the boot! 

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