Points Eliminator for '53 322

[leon bee]

I been reading here every day for a couple years now, but sometimes you just don't see stuff. I don't mind points, but there are some things I don't like: such as substandard imported parts being the only easy ones to find. Or NOS points from ebay that are already corroded when you get them. And I don't always like lying on my belly across the fender trying to reach the distributor.

 

Online search really only turned up one type for me: Pertronix 1185LS. On most of my vintage motorcycles I have modern ignition parts, they all use some sort of magnet in place of the points cam. This Pertonix, the "LS" is for cam lobe sensor. Meaning it just sees the points cam coming around, I guess. Does anyone here know if that works well?

 

And also, once I was asking here about a whole new modern distributor and someone, Old Tank I think, advised that only works well after changing up to an alternator. So I'm wondering if any pitfalls like that with just the points and condenser eliminator. Anyone has any advice, Thanks!!

[old-tank]

Standard DR-2437XP

Example:  EBAY

You may have to gently file the contacts; this is what I use and change every 30,000 miles.

I think the reason they last so long is the electric fuel pump that I use to prime the carb before starting, eliminating the high voltage during starting that pits the points.

MSD make an electronic distributor, but it needs a stable voltage source like from an alternator.

If you go with Pertronix use a stock coil and don't bypass the ballast resistor...I will not use Pertronix again, my rant is HERE.

Willie

[Ttotired]

MSD ect will work fine with a generator, but they will normally cut out at around 10V, so if your crawling along (idling) with the lights on (or whatever) you might run into problems. Generators dont charge well, if at all, at idle

Not a fan of any "luminition" type ignition system (they have a plate with holes in it for an infra red led to "shine" through) seen to many fail, although, some seem to go forever, not brand related, just luck of the draw

I much prefer the "hall effect" type (these are the magnetic ones) I have still also seen these fail, but do seem to be better.

I am using a Chinese copy of a Bosch type distributor in my Dodge and no problems at all.

I will say that if you use a CDI ignition (MSD 6AL or similar) then I would recommend an alternator because this type do use more current, but they are designed to give a stable spark output throughout its working voltage range. they also fire multiple sparks per cylinder (gets less at high rpm because it can only fire so many times before its moving along to the next cylinder) but these types of ignitions are a bit of an overkill for a street cruiser with a relatively stock engine

[Beemon]

Many will have differing opinions on points vs. solid state. Modern ignition systems are the way they are because of solid state electric fields. These systems work okay with generators, but as Ttotired stated, these systems don't work in low voltage environments. They are also prone to stuttering during point float, ie: when the voltage regulator opens and closes contact points.

 

That being said, when I had my distributor "rebuilt", I had the 1185LS installed in my distributor. The system is very finicky as it picks up the peaks of the cam lobe. If they're worn, or the module isn't close enough, it won't read right - and the module is non-adjustable. It never ran right for me and I switched back to points. Turns out the rebuilder re-curved my distributor. After getting a hold of a pair of original springs, I tried the 91183 Pertronix II module that has the variable dwell timing, and have had no issues with ignition since. It is the magnetic pick-up module, which slips over the cam lobe and even though the module is non-adjustable, you don't have to worry because the magnets aren't 'worn' like the cam lobe may be. It does supply a tool to air gap the module and the magnetic ring, but mine out the box was fine. It's very important, however, to make sure your entire system is up to date. I had at least two phone calls with Pertronix going over the entire system. With optimal efficiency, you need to supply a constant 12V+ source to the module, use their Flamethrower II coil (Flamethrower I for the 1183 or 1185LS) and you cannot use solid core spark plug wires as they do not suppress the electromagnetic interference that may cause the module to not function properly.

 

I also run a generator. At peak load with headlights on, I'm still above 12V+ at the battery. If you go this route, double check that everything is setup correctly for your build (for example, the Ignitor I can only use the Flamethrower I coil and the Ignitor II can only use the Flamethrower II coil due to different loads and resistance values). Personally there is no benefit to go with the Ignitor I (LS or Mag) over points because they do the same thing - dwell is fixed, etc. However, the Ignitor II system has a variable dwell function that reduces and increases dwell based on the demands of the engine, and would be the way to go with Pertronix.

 

Again, to each their own. I understand Willie's frustrations and it is something to consider when doing this conversion. I personally love it. And, if you want to avoid any possible flak, you can hide it fairly easy for $10.

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Beemon (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

I use Pertronix units in every one of my cars listed below, some going on 20 years. Never a failure, never a problem and never laying over a fender with crick in my neck, the trouble lite shining in my eyes and wondering where the Hell the 5/16 wrench I dropped ended up. Dwell meters? We don't need no stinking dwell meters.....................Bob

Edited October 4, 2016 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Airy Cat]

I have used Pertronix units in all of my Buicks (at least 7 of them) and in 3 Corvettes for the last 25 years with absolutely no problems with any of them.

[NTX5467]

IF you get a dial indicator and attempt to set ignition points that way, you'll soon discover (as I did) that there IS more variation between the height of the peaks of the cam lobe in the distributor than you'd every suspect.  When you set the points on a particular cam lobe, you're only setting the dwell on that ONE lobe as the other ones will be different.  On a NEW cam lobe with no wear, it's a more perfect situation. 

 

In the times when points were on all cars, each of the point sets had a little vial of "cam lube" for the rubbing block on the points.  Wipe off the cam lobe and put the new points in with a new coat of grease.  Cycle repeat about every 12K miles (or possibly 1 year of driving, back then).  Wear on the cam lobes was not a consideration, but was there.  ONLY when the point gap and the dwell were not in spec did anybody get concerned, if even then.

 

The electronics perform the same switching function in a very consistent and low-maintenance fashion.

 

As mentioned, electronic ignitions have a MINIMUM voltage at which they'll fire the plugs.  For some factory systems, this can be about 10V.  This means the engine will spin fast enough, but will not start until a jumper cable is used to increase the available voltage.  With points, as long as a spark happens, the engine might start.

 

Points CAN be a pain to install and set.  BUT for many who don't drive their cars often, it can take several years before 10K miles will be accumulated.

 

As stated, "To each their own".  Just as gettin' married or stayin' single each have their positive points, it just depends upon WHICH set of positive points you might desire.

 

NTX5467

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

 

 I installed Pertronix in my '50 in 2012.  I had changed to 12V with an alternator. I used their coil, no external resistor. Worked perfectly.

 

  Ben

[60FlatTop]

I haven't converted any cars to electronic ignition or 12 volts. I do avoid inferior parts with formerly superior names. If I don't have old stock ignition parts I go straight to NAPA and buy Echlin. They are the easiest quality parts to obtain.

 

The Warner and Standard parts sold at the discount chains are real crap. I read an article about Mrs. Warner raising the riot act at a stock holder's meeting about the quality of parts with her family name on them. I wish I had saved it. She wasn't happy.

 

Right before Delco came out with the electronic systems they produced a point/condenser set that was prone to failure. I guess the production lines wanted something easier to drop in.

 

I have been using an inductive KV meter on plug wires for the last 30 years.I rarely see more than 3500 to 4000 KV on the secondary system of a properly running engine so the high voltage output doesn't mean much. Points handle that fine. More voltage and I start looking fr problems.

 

Shuffle around in the parts drawer and find a set of points. Then take them to NAPA and compare them to the Echlin.

Bernie

[avgwarhawk]

30,000 miles on points at 2500 miles/year=12 years before having to change the points.  I run points without issue.  No sense creating a problem where this is a not problem. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

Most of the "old" and revered brand names of the 1960s and earlier were purchased by holding companies along in about the 1980s.  Back when Federal-Mogul bought Carter Carburetor and then (as I recall) bundled it into some "junk bonds" for segmented sale?  Good that Edlebrock got the AFB and AVS products!  For a while, there was still a "real" Carter AFB for the 1962 Chevy 327, but not sure of the quality of that particular item.

 

Holley Carb has been acquiring many hot rod vendors over the past few years. 

 

As noted, many of the brands we used to buy as OEM-level replacement items (or better) don't seem to be quite that good anymore.  KEY thing is to be an informed shopper, rather than blindly trusting "a brand name" that used to mean something.  In general, the brand names associated with OEM vendors can be good places to start, but continue to be skeptical until proven otherwise.  NAPA can be a good place to start, too.

 

When buying ignition points, BE SURE to get ones with the little vial of lube in them!  Otherwise, get a tube of ignition point grease . . . I know that Mallory used to make it and that GM might still have some in their Standard Parts book.  Otherwise, there might be some synthetic Ford-spec chassis grease which might work reasonably well?  No lube = faster rubbing block wear AND point gap/dwell changes (which also relate to base ignition timing changes AND engine performance issues).

 

NTX5467 

[NTX5467]

Personally, I like the B-W KoolWire plug wires.  Magnetic suppression innards.  In the later 1970s, they had an HEI set which looked exactly like the OEM GM wires, other than the plug boots were about twice as thick.  Other wire sets have the OEM look, plus the magnetic suppression innards, which is good, to me.  Not sure about their other products, though.  AND . . .  the price is "right".

 

NTX5467

 

[leon bee]

Thanks, everyone. That is a lot of information and opinion to consider.