Packard 12 market -- tale of two estimates

[John_Mereness]

On 1/20/2020 at 12:31 AM, 1935Packard said:

 

 Looks like some great deals on some CCCA cars at that auction. Unless I'm missing something, whoever bought that 1929 Auburn Eight Cabriolet for $51.5K got a great car for super cheap. 

 

 

28-30 Auburn Cabriolets do not come up all that often, so sort of difficult to pin a price to one, but the price is probably fairly realistic for driver quality or older restoration just nice restoration (I would say this restoration is better done than most I have seen on cabriolets - maybe three are better) -  a fresh outstanding restoration may push 90K or older high point restoration may go perhaps 80K. That said, the new owner bought a fine car for the money.   They are decent drivers too (my experience two 8-90 Series Cabriolets later).   

 

I say it like a squeaky wheel that people do not seem to be listening to - no matter how much you like Green cars, it is a color that other people either love or hate and even when they love it the savvy shopper knows how to negotiate the price down as they realize they have "been there done that" and know the same problem exists when it is their time to sell.  If you really want to get hurt, paint it White. 

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[alsancle]

11 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

 Looks like some great deals on some CCCA cars at that auction. Unless I'm missing something, whoever bought that 1929 Auburn Eight Cabriolet for $51.5K got a great car for super cheap.

 

You could see this one coming from miles away.   There was a much older gentleman with a cane sitting on the bumper of this car before the auction.   I assumed the long time owner and it was gonna be heartbreaking watching his car die on the block at 1/2 the estimate.   Sadly,  that is exactly what happened.   Very nice car with dated colors.   Somebody that really knows Auburns,  can explain the Big Eight of 29,  vs the smaller ones of 30-33.

[auburnseeker]

Boy that was a nice looking car for the money and I actually really like the colors.  Are the 31-33 more desirable as they have a little better styling or that just my opinion? 

Seems guys aren't learning either .  Seems it would sell better on the open market and the seller would walk away with alot more of the $$ spent to sell it outright rather than auction it.  Seems alot of stuff at auction hasn't been doing well,  and once the cut is figured the seller is really getting hammered for a car they could have sold just as easily for similar or better money without the fees. 

I can't believe if he put this out there for even 60 he wouldn't have had interest and a possible sale. 

[alsancle]

5 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Boy that was a nice looking car for the money and I actually really like the colors.  Are the 31-33 more desirable as they have a little better styling or that just my opinion? 

Seems guys aren't learning either .  Seems it would sell better on the open market and the seller would walk away with alot more of the $$ spent to sell it outright rather than auction it.  Seems alot of stuff at auction hasn't been doing well,  and once the cut is figured the seller is really getting hammered for a car they could have sold just as easily for similar or better money without the fees. 

I can't believe if he put this out there for even 60 he wouldn't have had interest and a possible sale. 

 

The 29 has the "big engine" which is why I need someone to explain them to me.  Not knowing any better I would side with the later cars,  but the motor has something to do with it.   It is not that the auctions are doing bad,  the market is soft everywhere.  

[1935Packard]

13 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

28-30 Auburn Cabriolets do not come up all that often, so sort of difficult to pin a price to one, but the price is probably fairly realistic for driver quality or older restoration just nice restoration (I would say this restoration is better done than most I have seen on cabriolets - maybe three are better) -  a fresh outstanding restoration may push 90K or older high point restoration may go perhaps 80K. That said, the new owner bought a fine car for the money.   They are decent drivers too (my experience two 8-90 Series Cabriolets later).   

 

 

 

13 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

You could see this one coming from miles away.   There was a much older gentleman with a cane sitting on the bumper of this car before the auction.   I assumed the long time owner and it was gonna be heartbreaking watching his car die on the block at 1/2 the estimate.   Sadly,  that is exactly what happened.   Very nice car with dated colors.   Somebody that really knows Auburns,  can explain the Big Eight of 29,  vs the smaller ones of 30-33.

 

Interesting -- thanks for the context, guys.   I  have never driven an Auburn, much less of that vintage, but it looks like an incredibly cool car for that kind of money.  I love the style, and I really like the colors, too. And I imagine that if you showed up at a local CCCA event with a really rare car like that, and an open car no less, you would draw attention that most people aren't getting for 3X that kind of money.  I hope the longtime owner didn't need the money.

[alsancle]

7 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

Interesting -- thanks for the context, guys.   I  have never driven an Auburn, much less of that vintage, but it looks like an incredibly cool car for that kind of money.  I love the style, and I really like the colors, too. And I imagine that if you showed up at a local CCCA event with a really rare car like that, and an open car no less, you would draw attention that most people aren't getting for 3X that kind of money.  I hope the longtime owner didn't need the money.

 

Orin,  here is the deal with Auburn:

- Cool styling and features

- Usually fast, many had a 2 speed rear

- Lesser build quality - not Packard or Pierce level, maybe around Buick.

 

The older gentleman selling his only car no reserve is not an atypical site.   There is usually one like that at every sale.   I hope he didn't need the money either,  that car looked like a very good deal.

[John_Mereness]

23 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

The 29 has the "big engine" which is why I need someone to explain them to me.  Not knowing any better I would side with the later cars,  but the motor has something to do with it.   It is not that the auctions are doing bad,  the market is soft everywhere.  

Big engine, but marginal gearing - they go 50mph just fine (at least that is my 8-90 experience which is a smaller HP car and assume the higher HP cars top out at 55mph).

I suppose you could figure out how to get an overdrive on one and go 65mph.  

Pretty die hard mechanicals in any one - good cars.  A higher quality build than say 1931-1936.   

That being said: They still used Poplar for wood structure and amazing any survived (and generally only the best of the bunch did for that reason). 

 

 

[John_Mereness]

The Auburn Cabriolet really was very well done compared to most !!!

[John_Mereness]

By the way, if you want to talk FREE cars - here is another:

 

Lot 1100 - 1930 CORD L29 BROUGHAM

Friday - January 17, 2020

$55,000.00 * No Reserve Scottsdale 2020

The Cord L29 was one of the most distinctive cars ever produced, thanks to the extra-long hood necessitated by the straight-8 engine and front-wheel-drive system. 3-speed manual transmission mated to a 299ci straight-8 Lycoming engine.

[alsancle]

That might be the best deal yet.

[Matt Harwood]

2 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

By the way, if you want to talk FREE cars - here is another:

 

Lot 1100 - 1930 CORD L29 BROUGHAM

Friday - January 17, 2020

$55,000.00 * No Reserve Scottsdale 2020

The Cord L29 was one of the most distinctive cars ever produced, thanks to the extra-long hood necessitated by the straight-8 engine and front-wheel-drive system. 3-speed manual transmission mated to a 299ci straight-8 Lycoming engine.

 

Another one where buyers can't see the car for the colors. A paint job would be pricey, but this car, like the green Packard dual cowl phaeton, is one of those cases where some re-coloring work would probably pay for itself (unlikely that this car needs/deserves a $50,000 paint job).

[1935Packard]

13 hours ago, alsancle said:

That might be the best deal yet.

 

The new owner showed up the ACD forum on FB recently, understandably excited about his purchase.  Interestingly, he said he knows very little about the car and was looking for as much help as he could get.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/ACDClubGroup/ (1/19 post)

Edited January 22, 2020 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[alsancle]

4 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

 

The new owner showed up the ACD forum on FB recently, understandably excited about his purchase.  Interestingly, he said he knows very little about the car and was looking for as much help as he could get.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/ACDClubGroup/ (1/19 post)

 

First advice is to get off of facebook.

[Matt Harwood]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

First advice is to get off of facebook.

 

Nah, all that car needs is a small block Chevy, a TH350 transmission, an Edelbrock carb, and some Cragar mags and it'll be killer!

[John_Mereness]

19 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Another one where buyers can't see the car for the colors. A paint job would be pricey, but this car, like the green Packard dual cowl phaeton, is one of those cases where some re-coloring work would probably pay for itself (unlikely that this car needs/deserves a $50,000 paint job).

Correct, other than wrong colors and aged restoration there really is nothing wrong with the car.  I would guess to say my first project would be seeing if I could save the whitewall tires and then painting the wheels a darker maroon or maybe dark brown (or pulling them off and going up to Dayton Wire Wheel and getting them chrome plated  - but car is pretty "brightly lit" already) - the 1970's carryover orange would have to go one way or another.  Otherwise, my assumption is that it will need some sorting due to long term storage.   I am not sure an L-29 is a for a novice, though certainly easier to deal with than an 810/812 - until you need a part for it and problem is L-29 sources are few and far between.   Still, it is hard to get a decent L-29 for this money, so I would say Free car.  

Edited January 22, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Car looks decent........if you fit in it the price was fantastic. I agree with the clean up, sorting, and change the wheel color. With a bit of effort, the car would be a very nice driver and tour car. Interestingly, the brown and orange wheel color was popular in 1930 & 1931 with Cadillac......lots of their open cars were done in brown or black with the orange wheels. Never could figure out why......

 

 

The official color name..........Burnt Orange Moon!

Edited January 22, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

On 1/22/2020 at 10:54 AM, edinmass said:

if you fit in it the price was fantastic

Ed, a L-29 Cord Sedan or Brougham has an adjustable front seat (with no connection to the center door pillars) - and you can relocate the tracks if you need more room.  Getting in and out is usually still a chore.  Steering and pedal position probably also have some adjustment, but probably never anything that would work better than exactly where is now - or at least that has been my experience with 20's-30's cars. Problem with Cord L-29's though is the general lack of parts. 

[md murray]

[edinmass]

On 1/23/2020 at 12:07 PM, John_Mereness said:

Ed, a L-29 Cord Sedan or Brougham has an adjustable front seat (with no connection to the center door pillars) - and you can relocate the tracks if you need more room.  Getting in and out is usually still a chore.  Steering and pedal position probably also have some adjustment, but probably never anything that would work better than exactly where is now - or at least that has been my experience with 20's-30's cars. Problem with Cord L-29's though is the general lack of parts. 

Lack of parts doesn’t bother me, I just usually make what I need..........I was very close to becoming an owner of an ACD car recently......very close, but at the last minute it didn’t work out. There is always next time.

[alsancle]

On 1/23/2020 at 12:07 PM, John_Mereness said:

Ed, a L-29 Cord Sedan or Brougham has an adjustable front seat (with no connection to the center door pillars) - and you can relocate the tracks if you need more room.  Getting in and out is usually still a chore.  Steering and pedal position probably also have some adjustment, but probably never anything that would work better than exactly where is now - or at least that has been my experience with 20's-30's cars. Problem with Cord L-29's though is the general lack of parts. 

 

Another cool car I would own if not for my dad's biases and putting peer pressure on me.    He's a total 810/812 zealot,  as he feels the performance of the L29 is sub par.   I think the performance relative to all  peers in 1929 is probably fine,  save a few of the very high end cars.    Could someone who has driven one give us their impressions?    Is there much difference between the early cars and the later higher HP  engines?

[John_Mereness]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Another cool car I would own if not for my dad's biases and putting peer pressure on me.    He's a total 810/812 zealot,  as he feels the performance of the L29 is sub par.   I think the performance relative to all  peers in 1929 is probably fine,  save a few of the very high end cars.    Could someone who has driven one give us their impressions?    Is there much difference between the early cars and the later higher HP  engines?

L-29 has similar problem as the RR PI - wrong gearing = 50-55 mph and you are topped out via being all out of gears. What is worse than RR is that L-29 is less engine CID matched to FWD not allowing such as addition of an overdrive.  I found the RR PI allowed you pretty snappy performance - until you ran out of gears.  Someone at a point in time (1970's or maybe 1980's) made higher speed gearsets, but apparently not many sets made and supposedly only give you 5 - 7 mph more. 

 

I know plenty of people that have had them and are not complimentary.

 

And then there is Ken Clark who really puts time into them and his cars are complimented as easy to drive cars.

 

I think a lot has to do with how well one rebuilds the Gemmer steering box too.

 

My dad is fairly good about Cords via being around them - says if anyone can master one I can.  He is quick to point me in other directions though too. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

17 hours ago, edinmass said:

I was very close to becoming an owner of an ACD car recently......very close, but at the last minute it didn’t work out. There is always next time.

I wish it would have become a reality - Very different from what you have been doing in cars, but for everyone I know who has bought one it turns out to be a delightful experience too. 

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, John_Mereness said:

I wish it would have become a reality - Very different from what you have been doing in cars, but for everyone I know who has bought one it turns out to be a delightful experience too. 

John, I had been looking for an 810 or 812 for a while, then when we bought the 851 speedster I decide on an Auburn........I got my fingers on one a short time ago......but it ended up not being the “right fit” for me. I’ll find something sooner or later.........

Edited January 26, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:14 AM, alsancle said:

 

You could see this one coming from miles away.   There was a much older gentleman with a cane sitting on the bumper of this car before the auction.   I assumed the long time owner and it was gonna be heartbreaking watching his car die on the block at 1/2 the estimate.   Sadly,  that is exactly what happened.   Very nice car with dated colors.   Somebody that really knows Auburns,  can explain the Big Eight of 29,  vs the smaller ones of 30-33.

 

Having written about that 1929 Auburn Cabriolet going for $51.5K  in this thread, I thought I would add an update that it did much better the next time around.  Makes me feel bad for the much older gentleman with the cane, as it seems that the next buyer made the money he was looking to make.

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Any given day.....you never know what is going to happen at an auction.

[alsancle]

14 minutes ago, 1935Packard said:

 

Having written about that 1929 Auburn Cabriolet going for $51.5K  in this thread, I thought I would add an update that it did much better the next time around.  Makes me feel bad for the much older gentleman with the cane, as it seems that the next buyer made the money he was looking to make.

 

 

Almost every big auction I go to with prewar stuff seems to have one example of the old man with a cane happen.   Last year at Pebble it was the Minerva town car.