59 and 74 Cadillacs - Coupe

[Guest Darla7]

Could someone give me some advice how best to sell these two classics?  Original owner, low mileage, I am at a loss and don't want to be taken advantage of.  Am I allowed to list them on this site?  Thank you for any/all advice

[TerryB]

Yes, you can list them on this site.  Pictures are a must to generate interest.

Terry

[danleblanc]

You may also want to check in on the Cadillac Lasalle Club Forum.  You'll get lots of advice and potential buyers there.

 

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org

 

[padgett]

Condition is everything. Location matters. Need to be able to describe fully (e.g. which coupe and which options. What works and what doesn't. e.g. 62, deVille, or Seville ? Which engine ? AC ? You get the idea. And that is for the '59. The '74 is just a GALB.

[John_S_in_Penna]

25 minutes ago, padgett said:

...The '74 is just a GALB.

 

Sorry, Padgett, jargon isn't helpful.  As an experienced

car hobbyist, even I don't know what you mean.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Darla, our AACA Forum has a Buy-Sell section,

and anyone can list cars there for free.

Following the advice above is important: 

Describe the cars accurately, provide contact information,

include photos of the exterior, interior, and engine compartment.

Also, you'll want to price the cars accurately--not judging by

other people's ASKING prices, but by reasonable selling prices.

The market is okay, not booming, and overpriced cars just languish.

 

Our forum doesn't reach nearly the number of people that 

www.hemmings.com does.  That website is based on the

popular magazine Hemmings Motor News, and is the foremost

place to sell cars such as yours.

 

There are several good price guides:

www.nada.com.  They would tend to be on the high side.

www.hagerty.com.  They are in the business of valuing and insuring collectible cars.

And probably the most used is Old Cars Report Price Guide.  It comes out 

every 2 months on newsstands;  and they have an annual book that can

be found at this link:

http://www.amazon.com/2017-Collector-Car-Price-Guide/dp/1440246750

                                                    [revised link, hoping this one works!]

 

Your 1959 Cadillac could generate quite a lot of interest if it's accurately priced.

Even your 1974 Cadillac has collector value. 

Ask any more questions you want, and the car hobbyists

on this site will provide plenty of advice.  

All the best to you on your sale!

Edited June 2, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Guest Darla7]

thank you everyone for your advice and guidance....One more question...I did have an appraisal done and he used the Old Cars Report which John referenced, but then he told me the cars should get double the appraisal, which I don't quite understand....PLEASE excuse my lack of knowledge on this topic, but I am applying logic..if something appraises at XXX why would someone pay double, aren't they going to ask  what the cars appraised at?  I'm pretty much a straight shooter, don't like playing games....The appraiser implied they are worth more and a true collector would know that....if the experts on this site could weigh in on this, I would appreciate it...Thank you again

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Sorry, Padgett, jargon isn't helpful.  As an experienced

car hobbyist, even I don't know what you mean.

His Idea of playing and attention getting with people, as said in another thread.

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, Darla7 said:

I did have an appraisal done and he used the Old Cars Report which John referenced, but then he told me the cars should get double the appraisal...

I'm pretty much a straight shooter, don't like playing games....

 

 

If the appraiser accurately assessed the condition--

which isn't too hard to do--then the values for those cars

in that Old Cars Report Price Guide should be pretty accurate.

It might be reasonable to ask 10% to 20% more than those

accurate values, and be prepared to come down to those values.

 

Darla, you've given us very little to go on, and if you wanted to 

provide more information about the cars (such as a few pictures),

we could help you more.  We don't know whether those cars are

near-junk cars (#5 condition), local show cars with minimal wear

(#3 condition), or national award-winning cars that are only

trailered and haven't the slightest flaw (#1 condition).

 

The combined expertise of the people on this forum

is probably much greater than that appraiser's.

The AACA membership includes mechanics, car restorers,

billionaires, and plenty of ordinary people from all walks of life,

with a lot of accumulated knowledge.

 

Was his appraisal consistent with Old Cars Report Price Guide,

or did he give a very low appraisal for estate purposes?

I think your appraiser is AWAY OFF BASE if he says you should ask

or receive double the price guide's valuation.

You might double-check the appraisal with values on the websites I mentioned.

 

Sometimes, asking prices--from classic-car dealers or overly

optimistic sellers--are 'way off, even double a car's value.

Such asking prices are almost irrelevant, and I ignore such cars.

But those cars won't sell at those prices.  Cars priced realistically

can sell readily, within weeks or a few months.

A 6-month ad package from Hemmings, combining magazine

and internet, should easily suffice if your cars are priced fairly.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

If an appraiser told me to double his estimate of value as a selling price I would probably only give them half the fee they asked. Did the appraiser make you n offer before giving that advice? Getting an appraisal is your best bet. Try using the AACA local chapter list for a reference. AACA is OK but don't look in the yellow pages for AAAA 1 Appraisals. And be prepared to pay at least $300 for a good appraisal. In your position I might contact Matt Harwood who uses this forum.

 

Remember, everyone on the forum has a car, or a pretty good reason why they don't. It's not the very best place to market a car, think Eskimos and refrigerators.

 

No one owns anything without having some idea of what it is worth. Even on the antiques Road Show reruns you can tell. When you got one price for the cars and then were told to double it you knew something was amiss . What are the models and the numbers? The base or the doubled would work either way. If the appraiser said $3,000 and told you to ask 6, well, that's not outrageous. If they told you $30K and said to ask $60, then you have a problem, but you knew that..

 

Right now it's two vanilla Caddy's. What's a plain vanilla '59 Caddy worth? Oh, $6500, maybe 7000. How about a plain vanilla '74? Three grand. Oh, sprinkles and a sugar cone? Well, that's different.

 

My wife has two prices for my cars; one if I'm alive and one if she sells them without me. The price on her own is low. The last thing I want to leave her is a curse.

Bernie

[John_S_in_Penna]

17 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

... Did the appraiser make you an offer before giving that advice? ...

 

That's a good point.  An appraiser must not offer to buy

anything he is appraising.  That would be a conflict of 

interest, and unethical.

 

Darla, you may realize that a car's body style tremendously

affects a car's value.  For many collectible cars, a convertible

may be worth double the value of a 2-door hardtop,

and triple the value of a 4-door car.

[padgett]

Sorry. Great American Land Barge. For a '74 the condition is even more important since it used so many plastic pieces that disintegrated e.g. the extension between the rear fender and the taillight/bumper.

 

3D printing may allow many cars of the era to be restored but I haven't seen much progress there as yet.

 

ps the appraiser may have meant that he had to go by the book value but he thought yours were in exceptional condition (e.g. low miles and garage kept). That last is very important since it means they had minimal exposure to the sun which destroys plastic and damages finishes).

 

As said, condition is everything.

Edited June 2, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[Guest Darla7]

thank you everyone for your help....Here is more information

1974 Coupe Deville 2 DR HT mileage 30,803 1 owner, garage kept, rate #3 plus with the following V8 Auto trans, cruise control, tilt & telescope, AM/FM 8 track, auto temp, A/C (factory) p/antenna, remote mirror w/outside thermometer, vinyl padded roof rear half....appraised 6,000 added 4,500 for low mileage added as a survivor, no rust..total 10,500.00 told me to ask for 20,000...I think start at 12,000???

 

1959 Coupe Deville, 2DR HT mileage 64872 1 owner, garage kept, rate #3 plus with the following V8, Auto trans, P/W, P/S, P/B, P/Antenna w/signal seeking AM radio, 6 way power bench seat, all original appraised 25,000.00 added 5500.00 for survivor condition chrome bumpers, trim excellent no rust total 30,500 told me to ask for 60,000 (which make no sense to me) I'm thinking to start at 40,000?????

[padgett]

Nice cars. '74 has some chrome add-ons that are not stock but are period correct & the plastic rear fender extensions appear to have discolored slightly (common). '59 is just beautiful. DeVilles were the mid-line caddys. Where you live the "no rust" and "garage kept" is a big plus.

 

I think you have a much more realistic idea of value. Recently saw on a "reality" show a dealer give an owner an inflated value to keep them from selling to someone else.

[John_S_in_Penna]

12 hours ago, Darla7 said:

thank you everyone for your help....Here is more information

1974 Coupe Deville 2 DR HT mileage 30,803... total 10,500.00, told me to ask for 20,000...I think start at 12,000???

 

1959 Coupe Deville, 2DR HT mileage 64872... .total 30,500, told me to ask for 60,000 (which make no sense to me) I'm thinking to start at 40,000?????

 

Darla, the pictures you posted were extremely helpful.

So too were the further data.

 

So here are my observations and opinions:

I have seen other 1959 Cadillac Coupe de Villes in similar condition

ADVERTISED at $40,000.  So your beginning asking price of $40,000

is reasonable.  It's not going to make your phone ring off the hook with buyers,

but it's fair.  Old Cars Report Price Guide (my year-old annual book) says

$22,500 in #3 condition and $35,000 in #2 condition.  If the car was

worth $30,500, I'd start out asking $35,000.  If you want more pricing accuracy,

I can check with a friend who is a Cadillac specialist and Cadillac-LaSalle Club

national officer.

 

For the 1974 Cadillac, your appraiser's estimate of $10,500 is a bit high.  Cars like 

that from the 1970's have a modest but slowly growing collector base.  The add-on grille, 

the after-market hood ornament, and the decorative landau bars seriously detract

from an otherwise nice car, and a serious car hobbyist would not want them.

They could be removed, and maybe a little repainting would be needed then to patch holes;

and probably you'd need a new vinyl top after removing those landau bars.

My price book figures $5800 for that car in #3 condition.  I would ask no more than

$6000, and that's not a phone-off-the-hook bargain.  If the car didn't have

those after-market items appended, maybe starting at $7500 would be appropriate.

 

Your appraiser's advice to ask double a car's value is revealing:

Maybe that mindset is why so many cars languish, vastly overpriced.

Sorry to say, but his advice for $20,000 on the '74 is laughably absurd--

you wouldn't get a single call.  People would be shaking their heads in disbelief!

 

You do have nice cars.  Maybe your family will want to keep one

to make your own memories.  Your desire to price them fairly is commendable. 

 

Edited June 3, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

From what I hear, people who advertise cars for sale

get more calls from "agents" wanting to help them sell their car

from afar.  I suspect that those agents never see or drive the car,

and merely advertise for you while taking a healthy chunk of the

sales amount.  Occasionally, people use the services of those agents,

but far more often consider those calls unsolicited nuisances.

 

Your New Jersey location should be a good one.  The east,

and especially the Penna.-N.J.-N.Y.-Virginia area, have

many thousands of car fans who will happily travel to see your cars,

especially the 1959.

 

With fair pricing and ads running in Hemmings, you don't

need any help selling your car.  You'll do fine, and of course

our Forum members can give you any further advice you need!

Edited June 3, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

The prices I give, and those which your appraiser gave,

are for cars that run and drive reliably.

 

Darla, if the cars sat unused for several years, they

may need some attention.  Cars don't work as well after

being idle for even a couple of years.  They may seem driveable, 

but they may not be reliable.  The attention may be modest,

but it might detract a little ($1000-$2000?) from the prices given.

[Guest Skyking]

It would cost $40,000 alone just for the chrome work on that '59!  Just saying....

Nice cars BTW

[John_S_in_Penna]

The cost of rechroming bumpers and trim can be expensive,

but as experienced car fans know, the cost of restoration ALMOST ALWAYS

exceeds a car's value, so it has no bearing on Darla's car sales.

Such a statement without explanation might only confuse her.

Cars restored for $100,000 can sell for $25,000.  I know of a 

1936 Lincoln whose restoration cost was over $200,000 and which sold for $89,000. 

 

Skyking, have you really paid $40,000 to rechrome all the trim

on a '59 Cadillac?  I've paid $10,000 for a '57 Buick, and I doubt

that a '59 Cadillac would be more than double that.  But if you 

had it done in a high-regulation state, chrome costs could be more.

 

Let's not go off the main topic, because Darla is looking for specific sales help.

Edited June 3, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[danleblanc]

Hi Darla

 

I have a friend in PA who recently sold a 59 Cadillac Series 62 Coupe.  It was an original survivor (beautiful original paint and chrome) car much like yours, in paint code 49, Wood Rose (pink) with harmonizing interior.  Interior was as perfect as it gets, underhood needed cosmetic issues addressed, and fender bottoms needed rust repair from the A/C (typical for 1959 Cadillacs, nearly all of them with A/C had repair in this area).  Everything, even the A/C worked on that car.  Main thing is, this car was one of the most original cars in existence.

 

Your $40000 asking price is definitely a reasonable starting point based on what I know my friend's car sold for.

 

I also echo the $7500 statement on the 1974.  If it weren't altered (aftermarket add-ons), yes, it would be worth slightly more.

Edited June 3, 2016 by danleblanc (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

2 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

T

Cars restored for $100,000 can sell for $25,000.

 

I have posted here a lot of times and written that you can buy $4,000 worth of someone's work for $1,000.

 

There is a group of buyers for every car and they find the cars as soon as they are offered. Asking too much on the first go around can scare them off and they never come back. That old "ask high, you can always come down", from my observation, has always ended with "Ask high and they will pass you by." My Impala SS is a great example. It is an exceptional example and the dealer put it in his front line for $13,900. I drove by and thought "He's nuts.", kept going. A couple months later it was sitting next the the building on a Sunday with an $8500 sign on the windshield. I took delivery on Tuesday. That was 40% less. I was an informed buyer. Two months time made him an informed seller. I don't play games to get the money and I don't play games to spend it. The more you want, the smarter the buyer has to be just to have the cash.

 

This valuation reminds me of a funny story out on the edge of town. An old High School friend had a mid-'50's car stashed in his garage since school. In divorce proceedings the car was claimed as common properly and given a value by the lawyers of the wife. They ended up confiscating the car when he was not at home. Then the brilliant lawyer was unable to find a buyer for the neglected clunker at even a small percentage of the estimated settlement value. The wife filed a suit for the estimated value, confiscation, and storage fees as the car deteriorated more at the impound lot. I understand the judge ruled in favor of the wife and lawyer keeping their valuable find to sell for the amount due.

 

In this instance the '59 Caddy is a nice car. Licensing the car and exposing it to the car crowd at shows and cruise ins is probably the best marketing scheme.

Bernie

 

Oh, I may be one of the very few people on the forum who writes how much I pay for things. With many it is a very hush, hush thing. I am usually quite entertained by the steps people take to avoid telling. THAT is a prime reason your appraiser lacks credible numbers. The real deals are secret. Shhhhhh. That $8500 Chevy I bought five years ago and lavished collector car care on; that's $7,000.

Edited June 3, 2016 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[ericdev]

Darla...Please check your Personal Messages when you get the opportunity. 

 

Regards,

Eric

[Guest Skyking]

On 6/3/2016 at 11:20 AM, John_S_in_Penna said:

The cost of rechroming bumpers and trim can be expensive,

but as experienced car fans know, the cost of restoration ALMOST ALWAYS

exceeds a car's value, so it has no bearing on Darla's car sales.

Such a statement without explanation might only confuse her.

Cars restored for $100,000 can sell for $25,000.  I know of a 

1936 Lincoln whose restoration cost was over $200,000 and which sold for $89,000. 

 

Skyking, have you really paid $40,000 to rechrome all the trim

on a '59 Cadillac?  I've paid $10,000 for a '57 Buick, and I doubt

that a '59 Cadillac would be more than double that.  But if you 

had it done in a high-regulation state, chrome costs could be more.

 

Let's not go off the main topic, because Darla is looking for specific sales help.

 

Apparently you didn't understand my post!  Darla is asking $40,000 for a '59 Cadillac.  I threw that figure out as an example what a good re-chrome job would cost.  Obviously someone doing a Cadillac wouldn't send their chrome to ElCheepo's plating,  they'll normally use an outfit like Paul's Chrome.  So for what it's worth I think the $40,000 for the car in that outstanding condition is worthy of the asking price.....but that's me.

[Restorer32]

We finished a complete nut and bolt show restoration of a '59 Cad conv in 2009. Every piece of chrome was redone by one of the major shops. Chrome bill was $25,000+.

[John_S_in_Penna]

16 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

We finished a complete nut and bolt show restoration of a '59 Cad conv in 2009. Every piece of chrome was redone by one of the major shops. Chrome bill was $25,000+.

 

Thanks for the documentation, Restorer 32.

If a '59 Cadillac's chrome isn't perfect, and a buyer

is thinking of replating the pieces, that's a figure

to keep in mind--possibly to deduct if the car is overpriced.

[Restorer32]

An unrestored but drivable '59 Caddy conv goes for maybe $50k these days, more if it's an Eldo.

[Guest Skyking]

13 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

We finished a complete nut and bolt show restoration of a '59 Cad conv in 2009. Every piece of chrome was redone by one of the major shops. Chrome bill was $25,000+.

That was 7 years ago!  I did two Metropolitans 5 years apart and the price almost doubled for the same parts at the same plater.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Skyking
Spelling (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, Skyking said:

That was 7 years ago!  I did two Metropolitans 5 years apart and the price almost doubled for the same parts at the same plater.

 

My quoted chrome expenses were recent.

Welcome to car-friendly Pennsylvania!

 

Boy, have we gone off the track from helping Darla with her car sales!

[Guest Skyking]

6 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

 

Boy, have we gone off the track from helping Darla with her car sales!

 

I think its right on track with her asking price........I'm sure Darla learned something.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Skyking (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

From time to time I see forum topics started by owners with value questions that almost appear the be digital media plants targeted at this group of "old cars guys" whom will jump all over that rare and desirable car. Sometimes they are a question. Sometimes they are just a picture of an uncommon car with some gibberish question attached.I don't see a lot of shock and awe, but there are level headed replies. One thing I don't see is the scramble from forum members to buy or send PM's to snap that bargain up.

 

This one was good. And it does continue to answer the question of an asking price for the non-hobbyist. Darla hired a "professional" and figured out quick something was wrong with his thinking.

Bernie

[danleblanc]

23 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

One thing I don't see is the scramble from forum members to buy or send PM's to snap that bargain up.

 

The appraiser's estimate on the low side before the $5500 addition for the "survivor chrome" was accurate.  The 59 presents well in pictures but falls flat on its face in person.  I'll just leave it at that.

 

On the 1974, the appraisal is optimistic.  Once again, I'll leave it right there.

Edited June 7, 2016 by danleblanc (see edit history)

[padgett]

I agree with 60 with the caveat that unless something special is going on a marque forum is the worst place to get top dollar for an old car. We simply know too much about them and usually already have something equivalent.

 

Add in a lack of "rare" and/or "desirable" and the result is usually going to be a lowball.

 

Just my opinion.

[Matt Harwood]

44 minutes ago, danleblanc said:

 

The appraiser's estimate on the low side before the $5500 addition for the "survivor chrome" was accurate.  The 59 presents well in pictures but falls flat on its face in person.  I'll just leave it at that.

 

On the 1974, the appraisal is optimistic.  Once again, I'll leave it right there.

 

Hey Dan,

 

Have you seen the cars in person? If so, can you give us your impressions? That might be more useful than swatting around numbers based on some photos. If Darla is serious about selling, that kind of information would be immensely helpful.

[danleblanc]

I had a lengthy discussion with someone who inspected them for purchase. 

 

On the 59, drivers seat needs to be reupholstered,  all of the dash pot metal chromed pieces are badly pitted, lower dash has been buzz bombed,  with rust visible on the edges, headliner stained, wires hanging from below the dash, all of the leather has had some white goop applied to make it presentable. 

 

One quarter panel rubbed a guardrail or something - rippled quite badly, paint is still present but needs a repaint in that area. Very thick body filler in the lower front fenders. Exterior chrome is nearly perfect is about the only good part. The car is a 3- that you could sink $25,000 into and only end up with a 3+ car. If you have kids and want a car to take them to the drive-in with and not worry about spilling a soda on the carpet or getting popcorn under the seat with, then you'll be OK buying the car at around $20k, living with the flaws, and getting $20k back out of it when you're done. 

 

As for the 74, the aftermarket add-ons,  poor condition leather, and other items needed just to make a somewhat undesirable car even remotely presentable make it a $3500 car. 

 

This is the feedback I got from a lifelong Cadillac collector friend who viewed the cars. His specialty is 59's and has owned several fine examples and is always seeking more. He walked away from this one because of its needs. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by danleblanc (see edit history)

[Guest Darla7]

Hi All

thank you so much for all your input, one member did reach out to me and came this weekend to look at the cars with his friend.  He wasn't interested in the cars at all, but did advise me if the offers I had were legit, to take the money and run because in his opinion they were not worth it.  I took his advice, after reading all of the comments this weekend and took the offer of 7500 for the 74 and 30,000 on the 59.....thank you again for all of your input, questions and advice....much appreciated...You have a wonderful group with a variety of knowledge and appreciate everyone's guidance!

 

Darla

[John_S_in_Penna]

Good to hear you sold the cars, and for a fair price, Darla!

It was much better this way than waiting vainly to reach

the appraiser's double-the-value prices!

 

It sounds as if both the buyer and the seller were satisfied.