Beemon Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 So I pulled this monster the other day because it's been seeping ATF from just about every break in the cast molding. It cleaned up really nice and the original factory yellow paint is still there. I've heard of Lares rebuilding service, but they want $400 and that's without round trip shipping (probably ~$500?) A local truck shop wants $400-500 to rebuild it also, so I'm probably going to send it off locally. My question is, how hard is it to rebuild these things? I figure since I have it out, I could at least dismantle it and if need be, deliver in parts. My only concern is the gear on the inside being worn. Also what was this thing originally colored? I'm assuming the pressure valve was brass and the body was black? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) I rebuilt/refurnished/resealed 55 & 57 Buicks and a 55 Olds. Nothing in there so exotic (O rings, seals, etc) that you can't get them locally and make the gaskets. That's assuming the internals aren't worn out. Mine were fine I'm guessing yours are too. While you're at it redo the pump. Of course a shop manual is a MUST.........Bob Edited February 7, 2016 by Bhigdog (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 I sourced a pump kit, so I'm good there. Before the gear box started weeping, I had to tighten the adjustment screw way down to take play out of the steering wheel and it still had some, so I don't know what the condition of the gear is, but while I have it out I may as well try and do it myself. Do you have sizes for the o rings by chance or would I be able to get away with buying a $5 o ring universal kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Just take the seals and O-rings to a bearing/seal supplier (or measure carefully yourself) and match. I could help if it was a 55....Others have used a gm Saginaw 605 box in converting a 56 to power steering, with some mods. Edited February 7, 2016 by old-tank (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 As a tradesman (I am an auto sparky though), I will tell you nothing is more annoying than getting a box of parts because someone wanted to look at it I would imagine that whoever was going to fix it wont be seeing them every day and wont know where every single screw ect goes (its a jigsaw puzzle), so, unless you do do it yourself, dont pull it apart, let whoever you have trusted to fix it do that, then they can test it a bit before it comes apart Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just take the seals and O-rings to a bearing/seal supplier (or measure carefully yourself) and match. I could help if it was a 55....Others have used a gm Saginaw 605 box in converting a 56 to power steering, with some mods.I have heard of the 605 box mod, but I'm trying to go with as little mods as possible. Doesn't the steering shaft have to be shorter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) O ring universal kit ="s maybe one that's almost correct and the rest go into the "I may need one these someday" box. Of course when that day finally arrives you will have forgotten you even have the damned things and if you do remember the one you need still won't be there.........Bob Edited February 8, 2016 by Bhigdog (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 If you were okay spending 500 at the local truck shop, then I would endorse using Lares. They did mine, and it works great! Plus their work is fully guaranteed. As for color I believe the casting is unpainted. But I did paint mine. If you do decide to take it apart, watch for the 13 ball bearings inside the worm gear channel. The ones in your unit should all be one size but there are a multitude of sizes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Holmberg Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The problem I have had with leakage is the "AO" seal.Leif in Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Don't have an issue with "AO", but definitely from "AY" and "I". It's not that I was okay with spending $500, just want that to be a good, dependable investment. Good to know it will be, but wanted to see about exploring other options. I'm sure its more simple than it looks, but if I can't get away with just replacing O-rings and seals, then I'm definitely going to be sending it in. Thanks for the info! BTW what would you call the color on the body? Black or cast iron? lol Edited February 8, 2016 by Beemon (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I painted mine a bronze color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Quick funny story. The day after it was installed, I opened the hood to admire it, and my heart sank. It looked like it was slathered in oil. My immediate thought was WTF?!?!?!? Then I was pissed that I'd have to take it out and send it back to be fixed. Then, I reached in with a paper towel, just to check the color of the fluid, and I found that all I was looking at was the gloss of the paint. It was dry as a bone. And has been so ever since. Telepathically I apologized to Dan from Lares. This was among some of the best investment I have made in that vehicle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I have heard of the 605 box mod, but I'm trying to go with as little mods as possible. Doesn't the steering shaft have to be shorter?Done before, but no details: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?295988-My-1956-Buick-Estate-Wagon&s=6dddf3bcfe4b7ea1e2c9cd9cad7f94fa56 would have the best chance of working vs 54 or 55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan at larescorp Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I would stay away from the 605 box. By design it's really not a great steering gear. There were many problems with it even when new. I try to steer (no pun intended) anyone I can away from using that gear after the horror stories I've heard working here. The Saginaw gear that is in the car now is a much better design, and much more reliable when built correctly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I would stay away from the 605 box. By design it's really not a great steering gear. There were many problems with it even when new. I try to steer (no pun intended) anyone I can away from using that gear after the horror stories I've heard working here. The Saginaw gear that is in the car now is a much better design, and much more reliable when built correctly. The only reason I would consider it would be to get a better ratio. I know you cannot change the ratio on a 55 gear; maybe on a 56; maybe the 56 ratio is already better; other gears that can be adapted (I thought the 605 was a Saginaw)? http://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hmn/2007/05/Saginaw-Steering-Boxes/1455074.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan at larescorp Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 The only reason I would consider it would be to get a better ratio. I know you cannot change the ratio on a 55 gear; maybe on a 56; maybe the 56 ratio is already better; other gears that can be adapted (I thought the 605 was a Saginaw)? http://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hmn/2007/05/Saginaw-Steering-Boxes/1455074.html The 605 is a Saginaw gear, and you're 100% correct about the ratio. The design of the gear isn't great though. They're prone to leaking, and having early wear. In my opinion having a bit better ratio is not enough of an upside to overlook the downsides of using this gear. The comparison is similar to a Buick, and a Yugo. They may both be cars, but only one will preform as it should for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Box is in, bled per instructions and there is no power to steering at all. In the shop manual, it says you have to crack open a bleed screw on the gear side cover. Is this any one of the five screws? The pump was working before gear removal and I had power assist before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Trying to follow this and forgive me if I missed somethin... you say box is in... did you rebuild it, have it rebuilt or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 Trying to follow this and forgive me if I missed somethin... you say box is in... did you rebuild it, have it rebuilt or?My mistake, yes I had the gearbox rebuilt by Lares Corp. They tested and guaranteed it was working before I received it. I rebuilt the pump myself following the shop manual. Arrow points clockwise from the pulley, all the round edges are outward for the pump vanes, new bearings and pulley seal, pump moved freely and so did the pressure relief valve. Hook everything up, fill reservoir and let it sit until all bubbles are gone. Bled the system per instructions and no power assist. Dan from Lares said it was the relief valve getting hung up, so I flushed and removed the pump, removed the back and made sure the valve was free to move in the reservoir. Re-assembled and re-bled, still no power assist. I dismantled a second time to be sure I didn't miss anything, everything looked good, put it back together and re-bled a third time. I couldn't get it to stop bubbling on left hand turn but right hand turn had no more bubbles and still no power assist. The shop manual describes a bleed screw on the gearbox but I don't think I have one despite the shop manual saying it exists. I just have the normal side housing bolts on the plate, and this is supposed to be a small screw. At this point I think I'm going to send the pump out to be inspected and rebuilt now, too. I can't figure out whats wrong with it. The pressure valve moved freely in the bore. At one point I had the reservoir off and used a screw driver to make sure the valve moved in the bore. My only guess is that somewhere a chunk of debris might be clogging one of the inlet/outlet cycles since they're only ~.116 inches, but I flushed the fluid and I didn't see any debris. The only thing I didn't do during the rebuild is take off the pressure fitting. The pump worked flawlessly before disassembly and I did a quick search and it looked like Buick5563 had a similar problem in his thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Yes I did. Twice on two different pumps.Tried a third pump and worked like a charm. Send it to Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 Stumbled upon this thread again because I'm doing research for a replacement steering box. There should be a footnote on the website: seals only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 On 2/15/2016 at 12:38 PM, dan at larescorp said: The 605 is a Saginaw gear, and you're 100% correct about the ratio. The design of the gear isn't great though. They're prone to leaking, and having early wear. In my opinion having a bit better ratio is not enough of an upside to overlook the downsides of using this gear. The comparison is similar to a Buick, and a Yugo. They may both be cars, but only one will preform as it should for years to come. Just curious. Is Lares inc. set up to pressure test etc. components after being worked on/rebuilt for leaks and proper function? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buick56 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 i have an old saginaw in my 56 but this one is worn, the piston rack and the pitman arm have loose movements. i am thinking for a replacement. i heard about some delphi gears that fits on the car but i am not sure, can anyone help me please. i am not in the us so lares is not an option right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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