Guest Joshhirst13 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Hi Guys,I wanted to see if anybody has had this happen or possibly knows what could be causing it. I have a 1950 Buick Super 2dr hard top automatic/Dynaflow. The other day I noticed that it was hard to shift between gears on the column. Last night I started it up & it made a really loud grinding noise while in park. I turned it off & checked the tranny fluid, which was low. I filled with new tranny fluid & it seemed to fix the problem with the grinding, but the gears were still hard to shift through. I drove it about 3 miles with no issues & parked the car. After coming back out 10 min later I started the car & it made the loud grinding noise again. At this point I backed it out while still making the noise & proceeded to drive it home. During acceleration there was no grinding at all & the car seemed to drive fine. As soon as I would let off the gas & coast the grinding would start & would continue at a stop light until I would begin to accelerate again at which point the grinding would stop. I was thinking that maybe the starter isn't disengaging or that maybe it has something to do with the shifting being really hard. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I have no idea where to begin looking or how to trouble shoot the issue. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Sounds like grinding or fast clicking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I thought it sounded like a grinding, but know that you mention the other I probably was more of a clicking than a grinding, but it was really loud. It almost sounded like when you grind the gears on a manual transmission. I'd really have to listen to it again but I don't really want to cause any more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Come to think of it it sounded like a loud scraping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Check the condition of your motor mounts. I'm willing to bet $$ that one or both are broken, allowing the engine and transmission to move too much. Check also the transmission mount under rear of transmission, but it sounds like the side motor mounts to me.Pete Phillips, BCA #7338Leonard, TX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Could be the flexplate ring gear rubbing the cover. I would also check all the trans mounting bolts to the engine to be sure they are tight. Disconnect shift linkage at the trans lever and operate both independently to see what is tight. Edited July 28, 2015 by TexasJohn55 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I am with Pete. Maybe Transmission mount or thrust mount as well. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Put a pry bar under the motor mounts and lift up on them. Is there a new round pattern on the radiator about the diameter of the fan. Did you have to brake suddenly and hard in the last few days?Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Hey guys. Thanks for all the suggestions. I've been at work last 2 days straight so won't be able to get a chance to try any of your suggestions until tomorrow sometime at the earliest. I don't remember breaking hard at all (I haven't been able to drive it until a couple days ago because I had it all torn apart to replace the water pump). The first thing I looked at was the radiator & everything up front is all intact. I had my brother start the car for me while I laid under the side of the car & it sounded like the noise was coming from around the flywheel or transmission area?????? That's why I first thought starter isn't disengaging but the starter seems to fire the car right up every time. I'll let you guys know what I can find as soon as I get a chance to get on it. Thank you all soooo much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Hey guys. Thanks for all the suggestions. I've been at work last 2 days straight so won't be able to get a chance to try any of your suggestions until tomorrow sometime at the earliest. I don't remember breaking hard at all (I haven't been able to drive it until a couple days ago because I had it all torn apart to replace the water pump). The first thing I looked at was the radiator & everything up front is all intact. I had my brother start the car for me while I laid under the side of the car & it sounded like the noise was coming from around the flywheel or transmission area?????? That's why I first thought starter isn't disengaging but the starter seems to fire the car right up every time. I'll let you guys know what I can find as soon as I get a chance to get on it. Thank you all soooo much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Pete is probably right. The left side of the engine may be misaligned, causing the trans linkage to bind. That fast loud clicking is probably the parking pawl which is not moving out of position correctly due to the linkage binding. Be sure to use your parking brake! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Parking pawl can't click if the car is not rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Hey guys. I crawled under the car today & pulled off the flywheel cover & discovered the front of the flywheel teeth are growned down a bit. (See pics) Would this be caused from bad trans mounts or motor mounts or does this mean the starter is having issues. I did inspect the trans mounts & they are dry rotted & hard so I'm going to replace those whe I'm at it but I'm really just trying to resolve the grinding flywheel. Let me know. I e also attached a couple of other pics of the trans filter, oil pick up, & oil pan for you viewing pleasure. The old rubber trans mounts pictures will be the next photos. Also I've been trying to post a video of the clicking/grinding noise but I can't get you tube to upload it. I'll keep trying. It basically sounds like a card in your bicycle spokes as its winding down after the car is turned off. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) What about the motor mounts on each side of the engine? Those are the ones I would be concerned about the most. Open the hood, start the car, put it in Drive or first gear, and with the emergency brake firmly set and/or one foot holding the brake pedal down, push the accelerator down some as if trying to drive the car. Have a helper watch to see if the engine moves or tries to turn or rock from side to side when you do this. If it moves more than say half an inch in any direction then you have bad motor mounts. Wear on flywheel teeth is pretty normal on any old Buick that uses the accelerator pedal to crank the engine. Regardless of how well the vacuum starter switch on the carburetor works, there are going to be times when the switch allows the starter to engage while the engine is running or barely running, and that causes some wear on the flywheel teeth. Your flywheel teeth wear does look quite fresh and shiny, though, and is getting to the point when you will need a new ring gear on the flywheel, or at least file down the teeth on the current ring gear.Pete Phillips, BCA #7338Leonard, Tx.1948 model 56S1948 model 76S1949 model 511949 model 591958 model 49Dand other Buicks...1959 Electra 2-dr. hdtp. Edited July 31, 2015 by Pete Phillips (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Please refer to post #6. Has the ring gear been rubbing on the cover you removed, is there a shiny pattern inside? Are the transmission mounting bolts tight to the engine? Have you removed the linkage from the shift lever and determined what is tight? How much distance is there from the ring gear to the starter pinion gear? If you just bump the starter, does it return to a safe clearance from the ring gear? None of these require the engine to be running or trans pan be put back up. I have yet to understand how mounts can cause the noise issue if the fan is not rubbing and the car is not moving. Mount problems can cause linkage binding, alignment issues and shifter issues. It is possible that you have a failure in the torque converter and some pieces are floating around. Also check to be sure your engine oil dipstick is not hitting something when running. Drain the converter and watch for any metal particles. Clean the pan and screen and change the fluid. Refill to capacity given in manual except 2 pints and start it up again. Top off after running. Edited July 31, 2015 by TexasJohn55 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Here's the video of the noise. I finally got it posted to you tube. You might have to copy & paste it into your search bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 So to answer some of the questions. -No there is absolutely no rubbing on the insaide of the flywheel cover. -I sprayed some lubricant on the shift linkage & the gears are now moving freely through P,N,D,L,R. I realized that I the gear shifting issue occurred the day after I psi washed the motor & started thinking that I probably unlubricated the linkage. I was right. I did. So it's working smooth now. -I'm gonna check the transmission to engine bolts in the morning-Not exactly sure how to check the ring gear to the starter gear. I'm still learning some of this stuff. But I'll research this, figure out how to do it & check it. -I'm gonna have to wait until I get all the pans & seals back on before I check the motor mounts. I tried moving the motor with a pry bar & it didn't seem to move. Are there only 2 motor mounts on the 50 buicks? Thanks for all of your help guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) A cracked/broken flexplate is also a possibility. The starter gear is visible with the flywheel cover off.Once you get it running again, you will be able to watch starter gear mesh with ring gear and see if it retracts when starter is disengaged. You will need someone to start it while you watch.. I can't play the video, I don't have Flash Player or HTML5, wish I could. Edited July 31, 2015 by TexasJohn55 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Sure sounds like fan hitting fan shroud. Or stick in the generator fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I does sound like the fan or stick stuck in something, but I assure you it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Hey guys. So I was thinking last night. Which is usually a bad idea. Ha ha. do you guys think it's possible that somehow the gas pedal ignition start is somehow engaging the starter while the car is already running? Or is this not possible? If it is possible is it a wiring issue or something getting stuck???? I may be way off, but thought I would throw it out there. I also drained the torque converter today & dont see any metal flakes in the old fluid.I also finished getting the oil pan & trans pan back on today. What a pain in the ass that was. The old trans pan gasket was a bitch to get off. It looks like it was some kind of a asbestos gasket that was glued on. The 4 bolts on the oil pan located toward the front are hell to get off & on. But it's all done now. Just gotta get fluids back in. I'll figure it out eventually. Let me know what you guys think about the pedal start idea. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 you'd have to read up on that in your manual. My only experience on this is with a 56. and the book describes the safety lockouts to prevent that. One is activated by engine vacuum as soon as the engine is running. The other is electrical in that when the generator begins to produce a charge the system is designed to lock out the starter. If you have no engine vacuum and your generator fails then yes, it is possible for the starter to engage while the engine is running. But how that works in a 50 may be somewhat different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I think you're on the right track with the flexplate teeth rubbing on something. Maybe the starter is sticking somewhat, allowing the teeth to run against the starter gear a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Check the bendix return spring on the starter, I had one break one time and the bendix would slide into the flywheel on acceleration, made a scratching sound. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Hey guys. Hers a few pics of the car your helping get back on the road. Thanks for all of your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Beautiful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Hey guys. So I got ll the fluids back in the Buick this morning. Started it up & the grinding noise happened immediately, which was odd because it usually took a a few min for it to happen. So I popped the hood & looked at the wires on the carb for the ignition. & what I found was a bunch of bare wires. One of which was laying directly on the metal carb. I moved the wire off of the carb & BOOM!!!!! No grinding. Fired right up & was quite as can be. Now I've got some wires to fix, which is at better that lying on my back for hours on end. Ha ha. Sooooo now for the comedy part of the story. After getting her fired up & took her for a drive around the block. As I'm turning a corner I here a loud metal hitting concrete noise. I look back & on the ground is my ratchet that I was using to turn the bolt on front of the harmonic balancer to get the torque converter plugs into the right position to drain it. With it are the bolt & 2 washers that goes on my harmonic balancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 So it appears the starter was trying to engage when the wire was grounding out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Yes. That's what I believe was happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 better keep the battery disconnected when you leave the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshhirst13 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Keep it disconnected because of possibility of fire???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Yes. Buy a simple battery disconnect switch, and install on the negative terminal. I think we've seen quite a few cars of this era with these deteriorated wires. Although it appears the wires deteriorate where they are exposed outside the tape that makes up the wire loam, in my opinion, it's best to replace the entire harness. Whats the status of your wires at the headlights and at the terminal blocks, on the radiator core support, just behind the headlights? If they look like the wires on your starter switch then don't disturb them, but make your plans accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 That's quite a rat nest. You are lucky the starter drew your attention there. You have an example of the reasoning behind positive ground cars right there.Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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