The closepin theory..

[Tom400CFI]

I believe it's the heat dissipation that is assisted by the Clothes pins. I have no proof that they work, 

This stuff is voo-doo.  Lore.  Black "Magic".  Stick to science.  If the pins actually had the ability to "dissipate heat" (which they don't, being wood), then wouldn't they also then absorb the very same heat that is supposedly causing the "vapor lock" in the first place??  Yes, they would. 

[Rusty_OToole]

You have to wrap the clothes pins in tin foil.

[avgwarhawk]

In case the pins do not help with the vapor lock there are other uses for the pins:

 

[Tom400CFI]

You have to wrap the clothes pins in tin foil.

O.K.  So hot engine/air under hood...whatever, "causes vaporlock", right?  How does adding heat transfer capacity to a pipe help cool the pipe, when in the same, too hot environment?  Seems to me that cloth pins, tin foil and other alien deterrent devices would actually heat the pipe (and the gas inside) more quickly, rather than adding "cooling" fins.

[CarlLaFong]

It's hard to argue folk wisdom that has been handed down for generations. I, ultimately, stopped posting on the Model T Club forum because of an argument that I got into with old time experts. The theory was you could get a higher volume of fuel flowing into the carburetor by installing a larger fuel line. I argued that the fuel flow was determined by the tank outlet and carb needle sizes. You could have a 6 inch fuel line but if it is choked down to 1/4 inch at the tank and 1/8 or 1/16 at the carb then it will flow no more than the smallest hole will allow. I was, pretty much, told that I was an idiot. I am not. Stubborn, yes....idiot no.

[Rusty_OToole]

I was kidding. But aluminum foil would disperse more heat than wood. Maybe we should wrap our fuel lines in aluminum foil.

[Tom400CFI]

It's hard to argue folk wisdom that has been handed down for generations. I, ultimately, stopped posting on the Model T Club forum because of an argument that I got into with old time experts. The theory was you could get a higher volume of fuel flowing into the carburetor by installing a larger fuel line. I argued that the fuel flow was determined by the tank outlet and carb needle sizes. You could have a 6 inch fuel line but if it is choked down to 1/4 inch at the tank and 1/8 or 1/16 at the carb then it will flow no more than the smallest hole will allow. I was, pretty much, told that I was an idiot. I am not. Stubborn, yes....idiot no.

Boy. I hear this!  THe forum that I spend the most time on, the Corvette Forum, has a healthy does of this too.  Sea Foam, Marvel Mystery Oil, If they sell a fix-it-in-a-can, someone on there has used it....and hasn't had any problems!  That's not to say that certain items don't have their place...but most of the time the real problem isn't diagnosed, and the elixir was believed to have been the cure.  

 

I had a guy bring his '50 Ford.  "It's always had vapor lock".  "Always"...huh?  "Proof" that it was vapor locking was that any time he'd climb a steep hill, it would get hot, and "Vapor lock".  I see the correlation, but the "diagnosis" blinded the owner from ever finding the root problem (or even looking for it).  I fixed the "vapor lock" problem by replacing the fuel line from the tank to the pump, to the carb, which had about 14 suspect joints in it that would allow the introduction of air into the fuel on the suction side of the pump.  Car hasn't "vapor locked" (starved for fuel under load) since.  

 

You were right that the fuel line diameter isn't the only determining factor in fuel flow to the carb.

[John348]

If they jugde my car will they take off points for this???   

 

not if you can find documentation, but then again you have to they ask you for it

[capngrog]

  Seems to me that cloth pins, tin foil and other alien deterrent devices would actually heat the pipe (and the gas inside) more quickly, rather than adding "cooling" fins.

 

Deterring aliens is good.    That's why I secure my tinfoil hat with 6 clothes pins.  I ran out of the classic wooden clothes pins and now use the more colorful plastic kind; however, the plastic doesn't hold up to the heat of the Mothership exhaust nearly as well as the wooden ones.

 

Deterring aliens as we speak,

Grog

[capngrog]

It's hard to argue folk wisdom that has been handed down for generations. I, ultimately, stopped posting on the Model T Club forum because of an argument that I got into with old time experts. The theory was you could get a higher volume of fuel flowing into the carburetor by installing a larger fuel line. I argued that the fuel flow was determined by the tank outlet and carb needle sizes. You could have a 6 inch fuel line but if it is choked down to 1/4 inch at the tank and 1/8 or 1/16 at the carb then it will flow no more than the smallest hole will allow. I was, pretty much, told that I was an idiot. I am not. Stubborn, yes....idiot no.

 

No, Carl, you're not an idiot; however, from an engineering standpoint (hydraulics) the Model T folk wisdom guys were right.  You were right that fluid (fuel in this case) flow is determined by orifice size.  For example at a steady state pressure, a larger orifice will flow more fluid than a smaller one; however; with an orifice of fixed diameter, greater pressure will result in greater fluid flow.  Friction loss in a pipe must also be considered.  As with the example of different size orifices, a larger diameter pipe of a given length at a given pressure, will flow more than a smaller diameter pipe.  Let's consider a somewhat idealized example of fuel flow from a fuel pump to the carburetor inlet.  Assuming a fuel pump output pressure of 5 psi, and using a 1/8-inch inside diameter (I.D.) lets say the friction loss from the pump to the carburetor is 1 psi.  If the  I.D. of the fuel  line is doubled, the friction loss from the pump to the carburetor will be reduced, resulting in a greater fuel pressure at the carburetor inlet, resulting, in turn, in a somewhat greater flow through the carb inlet and needle seat.  This is because flow through an orifice of fixed diameter varies with fluid pressure across the orifice. The numbers I used 5 psi, 1psi, etc. are just for the sake of discussion, and in real life would be different.  Speaking of the real world, at the flow rates (I'm guessing less than 1 gpm demanded by a typical Model T engine) from the pump to the carb, the difference in fuel pressure (from using different diameter fuel lines) at the carb inlet would probably so small so as to not be measured by a typical fuel pressure gauge.

 

So, the Model T folk wisdom guys were right from an engineering standpoint, but you were right in that it would probably make no measureable difference in the real world.

 

Cheers,

Grog

[JWLawrence]

Aluminum clothes pins should do it.

 

(o{}o)

[60FlatTop]

A while back I heard a newscast where a South American politician was considered dangerously dogmatic by the US gubermint. I thought about that during some windshield time and decided I was actually playfully dogmatic.

 

I'll believe my own BS if it makes me smile.

 

Bernie

[whtbaron]

You guys know a waaaay too much about clothespins.

[CarlLaFong]

 

 

So, the Model T folk wisdom guys were right from an engineering standpoint, but you were right in that it would probably make no measureable difference in the real world.

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

The Model T has no fuel pump. Gravity feed through a short 24-30 inch line from the tank to the carb. If there is a difference, I suspect it would take very sophisticated equipment to measure it

[capngrog]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Model T has no fuel pump. Gravity feed through a short 24-30 inch line from the tank to the carb. If there is a difference, I suspect it would take very sophisticated equipment to measure it

 

Uh, oh, gravity feed.  Well we all know that involves interplanetary gravitational attraction and other scientifical stuff, so that involves an entirely new paradigm with respect to the clothespin theory.  Gravity fuel feed involves an entirely different clothespin application theory and procedure than does the more usual fuel pump situation.  Gravity feed requires the application of classic wooden clothespins (no metal spring) at 3.76 inches on center along the length of the fuel line.  Use of the wooden clothes pins with the metal springs would set up dangerous harmonics, thereby inducing vibrations in the fuel line, causing air entrainment and consequent vapor lock.  While considering this aspect we must further consider the interplanetary gravitational attraction thing which brings into play the expected approach/departure routes of the Mother Ship.  I've found that I can only communicate with the Mother Ship if my tinfoil hat is secured by six of the plastic clothespins of various colours.  A combination of clear, red and blue seems to work the best.

 

I hope this clarifies things.

 

Grateful for gravity,

Grog