Tom400CFI

Yes, please. I'll compensate you for the time to scan it...that seems like an arduous process! David, yes, I already have pages from the Breeze manual...thanks to you! It's been very helpful.

Thanks for all the replies. They all help! David, thanks for the tips on the bearings and bores. I already "tested" the piston ring @ TDC by thoughtlessly ramming the piston all the way in to the bore....THEN thinking, "SOB....what if the top ring pops out into the combustion chamber?" Fortunately, that didn't happen (with this engine) and the piston came right on back out. Andrew; we have a spare cylinder(s) at my Mom's house in Maine. However, I'm going to try to weld/bore/surface the one that I have. First, doing so is much cheaper than I'd thought. Second, it's already been broken and welded in the past. That repair has held up. Third, I can keep that extra cylinders "in the bank" so to speak, for later. Ken, The cylinders will need to be bored. There is some scoring and pretty visible wear. I've not yet mic'd them for barrel and out of round, but I will. I feel that the walls are thick enough for further boring regardless of what's already been done, but yes, I'll measure them for sure. Thanks for the tip on radius'ing the top of the bore job. Good idea. I took the broken jug to the gentleman that I'd mentioned earlier. He has a '14 Hupp and has built quite an impressive list of brass era engines: Cadillac, Locomobile, Packard, and others. He was right on w/virtually everything we talked about which was awesome. I'm glad that I found him. One thing we both agree on is surfacing the bottom of the jugs and the top of the crank case....then assembling w/RTV and no paper gaskets. This should put less bending on the jug's flange ears, IMO....and end up sealing better too.

^Thanks for the reminder about the clutch. I'll have to get it shipped out here so that I have it. Couple questions: 1. How did Hupmobile make the rod bearings? Did they have a bronze insert with babbitt lining? Or was it just all babbitt poured in place? Or something else? 2. Were the mains poured in place? Or are they shells? 3. Finally, my crank needs to be turned. Should I turn it, or weld it up and turn it? I'm concerned about turning it and losing strength by making the pins smaller...

Has anyone scanned an entire Model 20 manual? If so, could I buy the file from you?

I agree^ When I rebuilt mine, I "set up" the ring and pinion with just the ring gear side of the rear axle housing, that side bearing and the tq tube w/the shaft/gear in place. This allowed me to set the pinion depth easily and be able to see what was going on in the process. That may be something that could help -remove the driver's side axle housing, then install the tq tube and operate it. You should be able to see what's causing any binding.

Got the crank out. Guys...this is some serious race stuff here! 6" rods? Flat plane, forged crank? Raised dome pistons for higher compression? SICK! The following pics are just close ups of the journals, which don't look that great to me. I guess if I'm pouring new bearings, then the crank can be polised to whatever size, and the new bearing is custom fitted to that journal, whatever size it is. Here is the front main:Cylinder #1 rod journal....Cylinder #2 Rod journal:Center main:#3 rod journal:#4 rod journal. This is the one with the smashed out/missing bearing.

The crank is supported in a very odd way in the Hupmobile; *There is a poured babbitt rear main bearing, in the rear of the crank case casting. *The center main is poured into a split casting, that is machined (round?) and fit rather loosely into a machined ID of the middle of the crank case. Then, two large studs pass all the way through the top of the case, the two split casting pieces and through the bottom of the case. Nuts on the top and bottom cinch it. I assume that you're deforming the crank case when you tighten them to "grab" the center main fixture? *The front main bearing is poured into the crank case front cover...which is "located" with exactly zero down pins or anything like that. You can see this casting in the bottom of the pic above^^.To remove the crank, you remove the front cover, then remove two nuts on the center main bearing studs, and knock them out, then pull the crank out the front of the crank case. As you pull it out, the center main carrier, since it's two pieces, falls off the crank and lands in the front case area. Pull them out, then finish pulling the crank out of the case. It feels like pulling a cam from a push rod engine.When I removed the front cover, and grabbed the crank snout, this was revealed....serious slop in the rear main bearing....

Made some progress...took some pics....They say that unhardened valve seats + unleaded gas = worn seat. Here....we have some pretty worn seats and sunken valves... Here is another pic of the "adjuster" that goes on the end of the valve stem. Look at the wear! The lifter pushes straight up on this thing....I can't believe how worn it is... Now this pic was intended to show a weird thing: all the valves aren't the same length. Note the heavy carbon build up on the valves. Where did that come from? Why isn't the gasoline keeping them clean? Here is one piston that is pretty representative. A weird thing here is the heavy wear....on the wrist pin end? NOT on the thrust side? How? Why? I THINK, that the piston may have been machine, round. As it heats, a piston expands more across the wrist pin dimension and less across the perpendicular dimension, due to more metal around the pin, less on the adjacent sides. I THINK, when the engine got hot, the piston expanded too much in that dimension and caused heavy wear....but I'm not really sure. Here is just a pic of one jug off, w/the pistons stuck back in. For you performance guys, check this out: 6" rods, stock!!

Yes, I saw it. I was totally "bought in"...until I did this: "I installed a Summit Racing fuel pressure regulator...I re-adjusted the FPR to 1.5 PSI and was unable to reproduce the problem, but the owner took it and it flooded on him -even though line pressure at the carb remained at 1.5 PSI. I don't think that the fuel will force past the needle/seat at only 1.5 lbs" That pretty well eliminates fuel expansion in the line between the pump and carb. At this point, I believe the fuel level in the carb is too high, and the bowl heat soaks after ~5 min, bubbles form, displace the fuel out the nozzle and there is the flooding. More testing to ensue....

I did. Thanks so much for that. I'll re-set the float and see how it runs. If it works, I'll ditch the regulator and try it again. It has an OEM fuel pump. I've resisted installing an electric b/c I don't believe the car should or does need one.

O.K. If that is "the fact"...then could you define it a bit more clearly? What is the heat, soaking? And how is that pushing fuel out the discharge nozzles?

Thanks for the good reply. No, I didn't just rebuild the carb. Customer brought it to me with this "new" complaint. I'm not sure how new the problem really is; he barely ever drives it and doesn't really pay a lot of attention to how the car behaves, so it's hard to get a good feel from the owner about what's really going on, and history. I installed a Summit Racing fuel pressure regulator, set it to 2.5 PSI and still, was able to reproduce the problem once. After shut down, pressure crept up to ~3.5 PSI or so, and the carb flooded the intake with fuel. I re-adjusted the FPR to 1.5 PSI and was unable to reproduce the problem, but the owner took it and it flooded on him -even though line pressure at the carb remained at 1.5 PSI. I don't think that the fuel will force past the needle/seat at only 1.5 lbs, so at this point, I'm thinking it's the float level is set too high. Thanks for the float level spec...that should be easy to check.

How about float level spec/procedure? 1950 Convertible ?

10-4. I'll look around. Already posted in the Ford section....zero response. 😅

Yep, that method would work too. Good advice. Thanks. I have not confirmed the float level....I don't know the spec or measuring points for this carb.