Looked at some cars today most haven't run in years How to value/make offer?

[auburnseeker]

I went today and looked at 8 cars all inside in good storage.

owner is deceased and the family wan'ts what I think is kind of high prices as usual for most of them. I'm not sure how they priced them other than 10,000 was a number that was thrown around alot. How they arrived at that on a spectrum of different decades and originality I'm not sure.

The list is -

1928 Model A phaeton- Very nice frame off restoration. I'm not an expert but it looks very correct and other than needing some detailing to remove minor fogging on the new chrome. ( a little chrome cleaner will make it all look new) There is barely any dust on this car even. I would say it is probably a number 2 car. The chassis is very nicely finished. Probably nicer than Ford Built it and I couldn't find any rust repair or evidence of. They won't take less than 20,000 for that. That price seems fair on that. A's aren't my thing though so I would let anyone interested in it know about it.

1924 Olds Touring Phaeton. Probably a 3. Some weird blistering in the paint. Not a frame off car but it appears to have always been pretty much rustfree and the body wood seems very good. It has the look of a 50's restoration to me. Not everything is up to snuff but it looks decent and has shine to the paint. I couldn't find any rust repair on this, This one ran and drove a few years ago and looks to still be good up on 4 tires with air, in a wood floor shed.- Asking 24,000. I think that's way high and the car is probably more like a 10,000 car. (gut instinct pricing)

1959 Olds Super 88 flattop 4 door hardtop. The seller and acquaintance of the owner thinks it has only 2200 miles on it. I think it has 102,200. It will clean up very nice and has probably 95 percent original paint. Front seat has been incorrectly upholstered Very nice chrome especially inside with really no pitting. Doesn't appear to have any rot but some light to moderate surface rust underneath especially on the rear chassis. underhood has been detailed but not correctly although a a quick look you would think it may have low miles on it until you scrutinize under the hood see incorrect hoses, non AC radiator cap, Painted hood hinges and bolts that hold them on, etc. Lots of red flags. Does not run but motor is free. All 4 tires are flat and shot. Hasn't run in years, Brakes may even be stuck but the garage is not damp so it may roll. Asking 10,000

1959 Olds super 88 4 door sedan. Looks similar in shape to the other one but can't see inside the car through the dust and it's packed in so tight you can'e even get close to anything but the front of the car. Exact same mechanical condition as the other one pretty much a dead cow and the radiator looks very shakey. Asking 10,000 for that one as well. Or it was 20 for the pair and 12 each. I can't remember exactly.

1985 Olds Sedan (I don't remember the model but it has V8 Air etc. and probably is an 88 or 98 of some sort) This only has 4400 miles. Incredibly nice shape. No doubt on the mileage on this one. Looks like a 2 year old car even smells new inside. Asking $7,000. Hasn't run in a couple of years but looks like you could start it right up and drive it out. I think that's a good ballpark price on it.

1978 Olds cutlass supreme coupe. Very nice paint body chrome spectacular interior. 260 V8, 12,000 miles. Hasn't been driven since 1981 or 1982. Stored in a heated dry basement. I can't remember if the tires were up or not. I don't know if it rolls but I would suspect the disc brakes may have set up by now. Asking 10,000 on that one.

1937 Buick sedan with sidemounts. 4 flat tires good paint fair to poor interior, fair chrome,some extra parts, Not sure if the engine even turns, off road since 1981, This one caught my attention but only because I like the style. Looks to have a very good body with 2 tiny metal patches on the underside of the cowl. Surface rust on the chassis.

1946 Standard (british car) Needs paint although the paint may be original. 4 Door sedan with sunroof, Looks like someone started working on it and may have some rust at one fender to body seam that was being worked on, Definitely hasn't run in years. I don't even remember if the tires were round. Looks to be very complete and probably 95 percent together. Bad chrome. Intact interior. Waiting on price on that.

Ok the big question is I know how much work and money is involved to make any of these especially the older cars run. especially the hidden problems and cost of motor rebuilds. Figuring most the cars need 500-1000 in tires right out of the gate. What do you feel the real value/ price of these cars in, for sake of a better term, garage find dirty old cars in dead cow status really is?

There are no great back stories to them or history tied to them.

If say a running 59 olds 4 door hardtop in good shape, which these cosmetically would be with elbow grease, is worth 10-12,000. (gut instinct pricing again)How much do you guys feel is a reasonable deduction for all that may be wrong and need to be replaced to make these a 12,000 driver. same with the other cars.

I'm kind of just looking for a little feedback of value of dead cow cars to turn key drivers.

I know photos would help but the descriptions are very accurate and I'm a pretty picky guy so just go off the descriptions for now.

I think the 59's are realistically worth 5-6G at most each as is.

The 37 Buick maybe 6,000 again. Alot of risk in that 8 if it's bad.

The 78 Not sure but probably again 6 or so not running.

What do you guys think?

[vermontboy]

Personally I feel that the "A" pricing is spot on with what I would pay based on your description. I think your guesstimates on the late models (59 and up) are about 50% high - late 50's to 80's cars don't "clean up" like the old ones as the quality of materials just isn't there and you end up with dry rot in the upholstery and brittleness in the plastic. Miles of wiring and connections to oxidize, I would think 3 to 4K at most. The 24 Olds at 10-12K and it would be easy to get upside down on the 37 Buick at any price if you are thinking correct restoration - there aren't that hard to pick up in nice condition.

I am admittedly partial to older vehicles and those are strictly my guesses out of the box.

[MCHinson]

I would need more information to give you much input on prices but I would ask does the Model A have chrome or nickel plating? Chrome would be incorrect for that car's exterior brightwork. If the brightwork is incorrect, I would look more closely to see what else was not correctly restored on the car. While that sounds like a fairly reasonable price at first glance, if the plating, top or upholstery are incorrect you would have to spend more to correct that than you might expect.

What model is the Buick? There is a bit of difference between the value of the different series of 1937 Buicks.

[auburnseeker]

The Buick is bigger than a special but I'm not sure which of the larger series it is. I forgot to look at the plate when I had the hood up.

I know most of the older cars, pre 1970's you would be upside down in even at 50 percent reduction in prices. I was just trying to figure if there is any rule of thumb dollar amount or percent that could be applied here or in the future on dead cows. I know true survivor cars have a little different value curve because of originality.

From the storage these cars are in I don't think corrosion in the electrical circuits would be an issue and none have complex hydro electric systems.

Like others here, I love to find old stuff and get it polished back to like new state and most have that ability as the chrome is really clean once you get the grime off it and the paint will come up like new.

The A has a chrome shell and gauge cluster so they aren't correct. I believe it's a 28 and not a 29. Not sure which year they went to nickel, The Olds radiator shell has been chromed as well so that's incorrect.

[Dave Henderson]

As you know, before you even get started the cars would need an overhaul of the cooling, brakes and fuel systems, plus all rubber, belts, hoses, tires, etc. Probably some electrical tweeking too. Then you enter the realm of the unknown. Maybe things go well, maybe not. The sellers don't sound like "car people". Perhaps if you feel that it has not been made easy to examine some of them for an assessment of condition, this could be brought up in a polite way in negotiations. It's my opinion that when buying a pig in a poke one should bid low assuming that there WILL be surprises. If bidding on the whole package I would reduce the per car value more. If not accepted, a bid can be increased where further investigation warrants it. Were some of the cars initially placed out of service because of problems? Mice damage? Hidden rust? Tiles clear? In some estate situations collections like this become a burden to the beneficiaries, who want to cash out and split up the proceeds. They at the same time may have very optimistic ideas about values. Do you know how long they have been trying to sell them? The longer it takes, the more discouragement sets in, and anxiety to sell takes hold. The apparent good condition and low mileage on some, if accurate, is appealing. Try to get a handle on what recent sales of comps are. Ebay completed sales, etc. Value guides help, but often do not agree with each other. If using them I'd consider dropping the condition class a notch or more. The thrill is in the chase isn't it?

[60FlatTop]

Of all the things I tried to teach my wife, it seems like the only thing she got was the term "buying work". Recently we were talking about the Packard I bought last year and she said "you haven't bought any work in a long time." And even that one was a hand off of work in progress.

It is all hundreds of $100 jobs and a place to keep it.

The key indicator is that nothing ran the bell for you. If you come home with heart palpitations and start emptying the cash from coffee cans you know you found something great. To be able to sit down and write objectively about what you saw and ask the forum......... you know they are a bunch of duds. What if you spend your money and something really great comes along next week? I have three secret cars that I've never mentioned for 10-15 years. Just breathing the names might jog someone's memory. I followed up on one last year with the proverbial $10,000 in hand.

The car hobby is transitioning. Each passing of an old timer is going to leave a pool of cars like that, lots of them. The young people whom might have the interest in old cars don't have the money. The ones whom do have money are investing in their future, not our past. There are going to be increasing numbers of good deals, enough to make the real car guys, like us, some great buys. The cars mentioned, stop back in a couple of years and make a decent offer on the Buick sedan. If you buy the sedan that's one less competitor for the convertible I hope to find.

Bernie

Edited May 1, 2015 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

I sure hope one of those soon to be pools of cars contains a non running neglected Duesenberg at a good price. I've always wanted one.

[auburnseeker]

I sure hope one of those soon to be pools of cars contains a non running neglected Duesenberg at a good price. I've always wanted one.

You'll have to stand in line and the last time I checked I think I was number 10,001 and they were still serving number 1. Just think you only have to outlive the other 10,000 waiting in line. LOL

The cars haven't even come on the market yet. They just started cleaning out. If they had been on the market for any time I would have never went to look at them. The low mileage (allegedly) 1959 Olds was what I went for. A true 2200 mile car in really nice shape would have been on the trailer behind my truck if it had been true. There is a different market for that type of car and I knew of a buyer that might buy it even not running if it had been true.

They didn't give me any prices until I showed up and some were made up on the spot by the relative so I don't know what the number the Wife, that is the true owner, would take is.

I did tell them to call me back when they get them moved around enough to get a better look at them. It's going to take weeks as the guy has alot of parts as well and they don't know what most of them fit are. I told them I would help them ID the parts (did a few while I was their) and buy some of them as they get them dug out, so that got my foot in the door to start with.

Edited May 1, 2015 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[earl e rizer]

The 59 Olds hardtop would make a decent driver IF it were at say$4000. The heirs have probably been watching or hearing of B-J Auctions and think they are in jackpot mode. Probably best to let someone else burst their bubble.

[Rusty_OToole]

What are you planning to do? If you want to be a car mogul and flip them, look up the value in the Old Cars Buyer's Guide. Cut it in half. If you are buying all of them for cash, cut it in half again. That is for openers. Do not go higher than half the buyer's guide price under any circumstances.

If you want to buy one for yourself, again look in the OCBG and offer half or maybe 60%. After that let your conscience be your guide IE how bad do you want it.

If you are trying to help some friends of the family, advise them to hold a well advertised auction. If they don't want to pay an auctioneeer, hand them your OCBG and wish them a nice day.

If you do not have an OCBG you are not cut out to be an old car mogul.

[Rusty_OToole]

Sometimes it is possible to get a good deal from an estate IF the people involved just want rid of everything and to get the business over with.

But, it sounds like you are dealing with multiple heirs, and they are broke enough to want to squeeze out every buck. In that case RUN don't walk. Of all the acrimonious time wasting morons scrapping heirs take the cake/

[Rusty_OToole]

"I'm kind of just looking for a little feedback of value of dead cow cars to turn key drivers."

In most cases, if done properly, the value of the finished car is less than you have to spend even if you get the car for nothing. Doing the work yourself does not alter the case unless you want to work for nothing. And if you want to work for nothing you might as well work on church buses as my old boss used to say.

Buying those 10 heaps from those people at the price they want is a sure way to get into trouble. Whether you go nuts or go bankrupt first is a toss up but it is the kind of deal that sticks to your hands like tar and takes years to get out of.

[Rusty_OToole]

It might be possible to make a little money if you buy the cars cheap enough, confine yourself to cleaning them up and possibly getting them running, without spending any time or money, then sell them off cheap.

This will tie up a lot of dough and take a lot of time, and if you figure it all up, in the end, you will probably be better off investing the money in mutual funds and working the same number of hours at Walmart .

It also assumes you have storage space for 10 cars and garage space to work on them. Plus the tools, skills, and experience to do the work. Plus enough loose dough to buy them and fix them up without pinching the family finances.

[auburnseeker]

I was just curious not even necessarily these cars but any old "heap" that hasn't seen the road in decades and needs it all mechanically as a tactful way to educate sellers on expense versus what they see as the cars current possible value. (a polite way to educate and burst a bubble at the same time but in a way that you aren't slamming the door to a possible deal on that particular car or possibly something different from the same seller in the future).

I know what it takes to bring a dead carcass back from the grave mechanically. That 36 Chrysler in my Avitar had no compression when I bought it and hadn't been driven in 3 decades. I rebuilt the engine and almost everything else mechanically in the car. Not in a shop that I wrote the checks but by myself in my own garage. I've had several cars in varying states of repair/disrepair. I also know that every dime you spend under the hood of a car is a waste of money when you go to sell it if the paint and chrome then interior aren't up to a good presentable level or better. I've told my Friend who's a serious mechanic that I would rather sell a car that doesn't run with nice paint and chrome than one that has had everything mechanically rebuilt and shows nice enough under the hood to win a car show if the exterior paint is bad or chrome is shot. Most people are naive when it comes to mechanics. If it turns over they figure it will run. LOL!! big mistake their. I thought the same until my last several cars. There is nothing better than a hands on education. Now I know figure if it doesn't run that it's worse case scenario and the engine is junk.

If I were to buy any of these, Which I probably won't, they would be made to look their best but mechanically just enough to show they run and move around the yard under their own power. nobody cared how well the last few cars I sold ran, started, stopped or maintained proper temperature under all different conditions.

I have a price guide, All be it a couple years old now. better yet the quick sweep of completed actually sold listings on ebay is even better.

I actually told my wife exactly what I thought each car was worth before even cracking a guide or searching listings and came within a 1000 or 2 on every car. I look at enough junk online every day to know right where car prices are especially on common stuff. You could throw me off on most anything pre 1930 mainly because of low numbers trading and certain muscle cars because of the idiocy of rare options people tout (1 of 2 with the saturday night cigarette lighter in adobe beige with clock delete. ) wow now that's rare. (yawn)

anyway back to what I think I was really striving for. How to tactfully in a polite way tell people "wow you are a bit high on that price".

I have some photos I'll try to post of a few of the cars when I get a moment.

[Rusty_OToole]

Is it possible to educate such people? I don't think so but would love to learn how. I see over priced deals like this all the time and just say "have a nice day and goodbye". Have never been able to talk them into anything.

[auburnseeker]

The only difference I see with this batch is I know the lady that owns them is older and the plan of the nephews is to liquidate all the cars so at some time prices will come down to market, but where market is with the current barn find craze, people will overpay and hope for the best as it seems of late.

[Rusty_OToole]

It is pretty common for newbies to over pay for fixer upper cars, houses and probably other things. Then what they do to them *shudder*. They just don't know any better.

[60FlatTop]

They just don't know any better.

That's going to keep a smile on my face all day. THEY don't know any better. And how many of us will be looking at cars for sale online today?

There is only one qualification for me to buy a car- I desperately want it, can't live without it, and have have it NOW. I have never NOT overpaid for a car. But I have usually sold the ones I paid the least for.

Sickness, sickness, sickness.

Bernie

[Rusty_OToole]

That's going to keep a smile on my face all day. THEY don't know any better. And how many of us will be looking at cars for sale online today?

There is only one qualification for me to buy a car- I desperately want it, can't live without it, and have have it NOW. I have never NOT overpaid for a car. But I have usually sold the ones I paid the least for.

Sickness, sickness, sickness.

Bernie

Touche

[auburnseeker]

I know you guys like photos so I figured I would add the few I have. Sorry for the bad photo quality. I had to take a picture of the cars from the pictures I was emailed.