Guest 98blackss Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I am set to go rescue this '37 on the 26th. Somehow I will be getting it onto a u-haul car transporter and that generates my first question. I need to get the front of this thing lifted up in the air somehow. The tires have sunk into the mud, covering the bottom of the rims. My guess is the transverse spring of the planner suspension is resting on or in the mud as well so dragging is not a viable option. Where can I safely lift from in the front? Open to your thoughts, as my first thought is to use 2 hi-lift jacks, one on each attachment for the front bumper. I only need to get in the air about 10-12 inches. I then could get the trailer and ramps as close to or under the front wheels. I have two manual cable winches to coax her up on to the trailer. Where can I attach tow hooks to on or around the front end? The little I have already researched I dont think I want to grab onto the front spring as tempting as that may be. This wont be like any 4x4 I have towed out of the mud that's for sure! I have stumbled across some shop manuals, at least the website listed as having them for a 1937 Studebaker Dictator/President but who knows what will happen when I go to order them. I will wait to order them once I get the car back in my driveway. Any advice, opinions, tips, tricks are welcome. I have good experience with vehicles 60+ years newer so this will be a new experience for me but I am ready to conquer! Thanks,TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 37Dictator Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Hello 98blackss looks like you will have some fun over the next year or two restoring your car ...I have the 37 Dictator equipped with Planar Suspension....Both the President and the Dictator Frames should be similar on the front and there is a 2" diameter pipe cross member that joins the frame rails at the front ...there is enough strength in this member to easily carry the weight of the car if you use this as a lifting point ...the front bumper arms are connected to the frame rails with 2 bolts either 3/8" or 1/2" and should hold the car as this is the jacking point for repairing a flat. I would recommend renting a hydraulic pancake jack from a local rental place ...it should not be two expensive and could save a lot of time as you should be able to get it under the frame..even if you had to dig under the frame to start the initial lift...I would take some wood to use as a jack base under the frame. The hydraulic jack comes in different lifts so you could take a 4" 6" or 8" lift ...5 to 10 ton range with you. The 2" pipe cross member can also be used tow the car but the watchout is to get the strap or cable low enough so you don't damage the sheetmetal on the front end. a 4x4 about 3 ft long can be used to get the web strap or cable below the front end sheetmetal ..you will need the 4x4 if you are going to winch the car onto your trailer ....good luck with your task The reproduction Shop Manuals for the car will provide basic information about repairs /adjustments to the car .... there are many other manuals that can provide additional service details for the repair and set up of the car during and after restoration . I have a Motors Manual that has a lot of detail ...I find these helpful as I have had my car for 39 years and its usually a few years in my case before I have to do a major rebuild of brakes or clutch so the detail is valuable ....I got mine at flea markets Hope this helps ..good luck with your first task..Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMB Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I just noticed that 2" pipe in another thread. My 37 President frame does not have that pipe. I don't remember anything to suggest that it had been removed. Just so you have some alternative plan should it not be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I didn't see a 2" front pipe on the chassis diagram in the Shop Manual, see picture below. If you can get the car up a little in front, you may be able to get a jack at the outer end of the Control Link to lift a wheel out of the mud. Some pieces of 3/4" plywood can be used to keep the jack from sinking. Once the wheel is free, some more plywood to cover the depression in the mud will help the car to roll. You can also jack at the center of the chassis in front, but you'll have to go up a long way to get the wheels out of the ground. It looks like the center of the chassis is where to hook the cables, not the control links.Will the tires hold air long enough to get it on the trailer? Bring a little 12 volt compressor or a portable air tank and hose. I think the bolt pattern is 5 bolts on a 5" diameter circle, but I'm not sure. Maybe you could bring another set of wheels and tires to swap on to the car. All of the 1/2-ton Studebaker pickups from 1941-64 used 5-on-5 bolt pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studerex Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Go to Tom Lewis link to get a good view of what the front end looks like. You can pull by going around that front spring. It is very tough. Just don't jerk on it. Just the spring, not the lower or upper links. Where is this event going to happen? http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?80456-37-President-Re-assembly-started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 98blackss Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Thanks for the tips! I am planning on bringing an air compressor to air up the tires. All the beads are still seated, and these most likely have tubes so I have my fingers crossed that they will hold air, at least long enough to get her on the trailer. What are the hubs like on these? If they had any grease coating the metal parts when it was parked I'm hoping that they are not frozen and will turn! Good call on having a length of 4x4, I was planning on plywood and some 2x12's. In the frame diagram, is that a welded/bolted in cross member up front or is that the suspension spring? If that is a cross member that should suffice. I think that is what Gary_Ash is referring to as a point to hook cables.They are 5 bolt wheels, I thought I saw something that the bolt pattern is 4.5 inch which makes it a very common bolt pattern today (5x114.3). I can pick up a set of cheap steelies and cheapo tires to use while getting her all put back together. The first stop will be a high pressure self serve wash. The U-Haul trailer is open in the center between the wheels so I can get under and hose off the underside real well. After the first 100 out of the 500 or so miles back (should be enough time to dry) I will start empting cans of rust penetrant on every nut and bolt I can find starting with the wheels.TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studerex Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Also view this post. It shows that cross bar. You should be able to pull on that out toward the frame rails. Not the center or it will bend.http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?80178-Isn-t-powdercoating-grand&p=834754#post834754 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 98blackss Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) This president is the one in the montage (lower left corner) that studeq posted in the model identification thread here: http://forums.aaca.org/f126/model-identification-369893.html post #8. Its close to Manhattan, Kansas. I now Live in Denver, Colorado but discovered this car back in 1996 when I was in school at Kansas State University. TJ Edited April 16, 2014 by 98blackss (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Here is a PDF of a wheel hole gauge to figure out the bolt circle diameter. Print it out at 100% size, no scaling. You can cut out the holes to make it easier to line it up. I'm betting a whole nickel that it's 5-on-5! Let us know what you find. Rex, you must know this already!http://www.studegarage.com/images/other/wheel_hole_gauge.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 98blackss Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Gary, Thanks for the template. I will use that. The 5x4.5 is what I found in a post while searching. I have found some conflicting info already so I cant say what they are. If its a 5on5 then that's sweet cause I already have modern 5on5 set taking up space in my garage I can toss on there!What does it take to get on the SDC page? studerex posted some links, I can get to the pages but I cant see the pictures because I'm not a member... I registered this morning and still don't have access. I verified my account by responding to the email it sent to me and it said it would take up to 24 hours. Yes I am impatient... No other forum takes that long to add a member so they can participate. I'm all for cutting out the spammers but come on.... I want to see the pics!!!!!patiently waiting....Thanks,TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdon Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Good luck TJ, Let me know what I can do to help. No President here but semi-schooled on Dictator and CE. Grand Junction. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevemc Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 TJ, Hire a rollback or wrecker to pull it out and load on your trailer. I have removed several cars from the woods in the past. The clutch and or brakes can be frozen.You can get hurt.It takes a very strong winch to pull this heavy car. Do try to air up the tires. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sailingadventure Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 After pulling a few old cars out of the ground I can tell you that you won`t be able to get that car to move unless you use some heavy equipment. It looks like the frame is in the ground along with the rear end. Even if you do pump up the tires the brake shoes are probably rusted to the drums. This is the car stevemc brought to the shop in 2005. It took a Bobcat with a fork lift attachment, chain saw, tractor, and a flatbed trailer to get it out. To see the progress on this car, go to; http://www.mccainautomotive.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 98blackss Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Finally got access tot he SDC page so I could see the frame pics. Sailingadventure, thanks for the link to the build on mccainautomotive but your casting doubt on getting the '37 out... In all seriousness I have been grinding on this for a while. I have a limited amount of time to do this extraction. I'm leaving Denver after work and driving 500 miles arriving in the wee hours of the morning. I have all day Saturday but have to head back Sunday. Fortunately I don't have the trees to contend with that you had. I don't have that much space front to back to get a roll back in there but I do have ample space from the side. I just do not know of anyone in the area with a forklift that has forks long enough, like what the junkyards have. I have no doubt that the brakes etc are all one rusty hunk. I'm planning on the worst case scenario. It would be all too nice to have some long forks to get under the entire thing from the side and lift it straight up and set it on the trailer. Thanks,TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studerex Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I've dragged some real dogs on my trailer. One time it took the trailer winch and 2 come alongs to pull a 31 with flat tires and locked brakes. Still only took 4 hours to get it loaded. My president has 5x5 bolt pattern. Got any photos of the current location? Dicks photo shows it in the open. Be sure to take the camera along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studerex Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 On second thought I believe the pattern is 5 on 5 1/2. But mine is a 35. 37 might be different. email Tom Lewis or Jerry Kurtz. Both are very knowledgeable on 37 presidents and I'm sure would be glad to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studeq Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 One more time. Of course this photo is from 1996....may have "settled" a bit since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 98blackss Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Here she is as of March 29th 2014.I cant wait to get her home!!!TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 98blackss Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Here is my plan A & B hope I don't need plan C...Plan A )Get the trailer positioned right in font and ramps right at front wheels. Use two Hi-lift hjacks on the front bumper mounts to get the wheels up in the air and slide some 2x12's slathered with axle grease under the front wheels about half way back to the rear wheels. Attach two come-alongs at the front frame. Set front down on 2x12's. Go to the back and jack up the back same as front and slide 2x12's with grease under the back wheels to meet the ones I slid back from the front. Set car down on 2x12's in back. See if I can get any air into the tires. Get some college age men to help crank on the come-alongs. Grease, messy but the idea is to help her slide. I really think we can do it.Plan I have a wrecker service I can call. Not sure how that would play out though.TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Can you clearly get in front of it? That will definitely make it much easier. I was going to suggest the slide idea but I see you are arrived at the same conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMB Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) Fantastic purchase. That car is in amazing condition and it appears to be complete. You might be surprised if you air up the tires. As they have tubes they may hold air. Mine did. And possibly all the brakes are not rusted. If I recall correctly the bolt pattern is 5 x 5. I know mine had ford wheels on it.All your upcoming work will be worth it. A guy we met at a gas station when hauling mine back home replied after I said I had a lot of work ahead, "But it is a Studebaker so it is a labor of love". He was right. I finally, got a picture with the sides on. Also very nice 37 Dictator custom. Both Studes won a "Top Five" at that show.I'm not sure how the pictures got where they are. Edited April 18, 2014 by SMB (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Unless you restrain those wheels on the planks it will be very difficult to keep them from sliding sideways on the grease. In rough ground it will be impossible to put the planks level and to keep them level as they sink in. You will have to restrain them strongly at the trailer end and they could still twist. Restraint will be required as well to stop the planks sliding up the rear of the trailer.I would try air in the tires first. And turn up with wheels to swap if they don't hold air. According to The Hollander 1952, the wheels on the 36 and 37 Presidents (2C & 3C) are the same and they fit only those cars (up to 1952, obviously) maybe just because of the hubcap size. The hubs and drums also only fit those two models of Stude. The wheels are 16x4.5 and the bolts are 5/5.5". That bolt hole specification fits 25 models that take wires and 21 models that take disc wheels. Sing out if you have an idea for a wheel from a '32-'52 vehicle and I will look it up. Great project car. Hope you get it home without hurting anybody or the car. Edited April 19, 2014 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Just realised, water is a rubber lubricant (if cutting rubber, wet your knife first, it is much easier). So you won't need grease, just water. But sideways will still be much easier than upwards on a wet plank. Smooth is lower friction too.Stude Commanders of the '30s had 5/5" bolt patterns, as did the 35 President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbk Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 You maybe able to air up the tires but be careful.Wear eye protection.When the sidewall let go the inner tube will pop out and explode and mud will hit your eyes.Don't ask me how I know.Robert Kapteyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 98blackss Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I am happy to report the extraction went better than expected. I was prepared for the worst of every scenario, but the best worked out! We pulled up at 11am and had it on the trailer headed to the car wash at 3:30pm! The wheels turn very freely. Had the tires been able to hold air it would have rolled very easily. The only problem I had was my cheapo harbor freight cable winch binding up. Here are a few pic's:TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 98blackss Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 A huge thank you to Don Whitten who trusted me enough to sell the car to me. Don is 82 now and in 10 years when I am done wants me to take him for a ride in it and cruise in the 4th of July parade in Wamego, Kansas! You bet Don!! it will be my honor!TJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sailingadventure Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I`m sure all of us who were watching this thread are glad things went well for you. Now that you`ve got it home, keep us informed of your progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibrake4oldcars Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Congratulations, that will be a fun project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMB Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Hey! I'm hoping you do the same with yours - I want to see that baby completed.I`m sure all of us who were watching this thread are glad things went well for you. Now that you`ve got it home, keep us informed of your progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalowed Bill Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 TJGood work! With your enthusiasm and a good deal of work you can do what the sixty years that Mr. Witten could not accomplish, that of getting it on the road. Enjoyed with the process, do it right, without short cuts and I'm sure you will be rewarded by the results. Personally I think that there are few Studebakers as beautiful and unique as your car. Now your challenge is to be able to share it with the rest of the world, people will love it! Keep in touch.-Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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