Unsticking a manifold heat riser valve

[beerczar1976]

Has anyone ever had luck unsticking a stuck manifold heat riser valve? I know the pros and cons of having it work or not. The one on my car is stuck open, so I'm a little less worried about it for now and the car will soon be getting garaged for the winter. However, I do have a spare that I'm trying to un-stick. If successful, I'd like to eventually swap it out with my current stuck open one... I have no idea how long this baby's been in the stuck closed position, could be a few years to 50+ years. Judging by the amount of rust and crud on the outside of the body of the valve itself, it's probably been a while since it was last used.

Thoughts? Already tried PB Blaster, WD-40, and currently trying Carb/Choke Cleaner. I've gotten all of the crud out from between the butterfly and the inside of the valve, absolutely no luck in budging the shaft whatsoever though. There doesn't really seem to be a way to work any type of penetrating fluid or the suggested graphite in and around the shaft if it won't turn in the first place...

Am I looking at a lost cause and a cool paper weight?

Thanks!

[Wheelnut]

I saw this recently on youtube -- a guy freed up a frozen heat riser by derusting it in molasses!

http://youtu.be/3dj9zH0Ul8E

[buick man]

Has anyone ever had luck unsticking a stuck manifold heat riser valve? I know the pros and cons of having it work or not. The one on my car is stuck open, so I'm a little less worried about it for now and the car will soon be getting garaged for the winter. However, I do have a spare that I'm trying to un-stick. If successful, I'd like to eventually swap it out with my current stuck open one... I have no idea how long this baby's been in the stuck closed position, could be a few years to 50+ years. Judging by the amount of rust and crud on the outside of the body of the valve itself, it's probably been a while since it was last used.

Thoughts? Already tried PB Blaster, WD-40, and currently trying Carb/Choke Cleaner. I've gotten all of the crud out from between the butterfly and the inside of the valve, absolutely no luck in budging the shaft whatsoever though. There doesn't really seem to be a way to work any type of penetrating fluid or the suggested graphite in and around the shaft if it won't turn in the first place...

Am I looking at a lost cause and a cool paper weight?

Thanks!

.

.... buick man says to go out and get a 1 gallon jug of " A MUST FOR RUST ". This is a conditioned yet buffered solution of phosphoric acid. Find a shallow plastic container with a lid that just fits the manifold in length and just a tad bit taller. Clean the manifold of all grease, dry then rinse wash with MEK ( Methyl Ethyl Ketone ) or Acetone. Let dry. Then put your manifold in your sized container, open the bottle of A MUST FOR RUST and pour in making sure to cover the manifold completely. Put the cover on your container and the lid back onto the bottle. Now let it set for a couple days. Then open and remove manifold. Blow dry with shop air and begin to scrub with a stainless steel brush by hand in combination with an electric drill and brush combo. Then clean with Acetone and dry. Put the manifold back in for 24 hours and then remove and repeat wire brushing and cleaning. You will find a different manifold at this point. One that is clean and the flap valve will be moveable at this point. Begin moving it back and forth then if necessary repeat the soaking of the manifold for another day if necessary or use a squirt bottle to administer the A MUST FOR RUST where needed while working the spring and flap. Doing it this way you will most likely not break the rare spring mounts and ends which are next to impossible to find. ..... Good Luck!

Edit: Oh... when you are done with your A MUST FOR RUST solution soak, obtain a few paper automotive paint filters ( yeah just like the ones they give away for free at your local automotive paint jobber supply store ) and filter the solution back into your bottle and seal it up good n tight. As long as you keep it sealed up both while using it and while storing it, and it is not contaminated with oil and grease, you can use it over and over again. When eventually spent, pour it on the base of one of you favorite trees outside. It will not hurt the plant as they use in in their bio conversion process and love it. Best product I have stumbled across in the last 15 - years. I have no affiliation going on with it but I DO have a fascination going on with it. Try this out and report back to us.

Edited December 6, 2013 by buick man (see edit history)

[Guest shadetree77]

I tried the process David described substituting vinegar and EvapoRust (used separately). I could not get mine freed up. I tried for days and days and never did get it to move a millimeter. I'll have to look into that Must For Rust stuff next time. I ended up gently prying mine into the OFF position and the car starts and runs just fine even in cold weather. Let us know how you fare.

[beerczar1976]

Sounds like I have some good leads. As I'm cheap. I'll price out the molasses vs. the Must for Rust stuff. They both sound like good options. I guess it's good to have a spare to "play" with before going all in. Worst comes to worst, I think I saw new ones with and without flappers thru Bob's or maybe Fusick (big $ in either case though)... I will make sure to report back soon with whichever approach I take!

[old-tank]

After getting one of mine freed using a similar phosphoric acid soak, I ended up with a very loose shaft that leaked . After that I just cut the butterfly out. You don't need it unless you drive short trips in cold weather and probably not then with todays' available highly volatile fuel.

Willie

[buick man]

That was because the phosphoric acid is a converter and not a strong true acid like say hydrochloric acid aka muriatic acid also depicted as HCL . This acid type actually eats the metal away. Phosphoric acid does too but on a "glacial" pace as compared to strong acids. Strong acids are not converters either. Regarding the shaft, it was worn to begin with and carbon eventually formed to fill the voids. Then upon setting for a long time, the rust attacked the carbon and metal to seize the shaft. In this instance phosphoric acid will dissolve and convert, thereby freeing the shaft but will not erode it under normal soak conditions. On the other hand, Hydrochloric Acid will quickly eat away at the substrate surfaces of the shaft and bore and that is why using Muriatic Acid should never be a First Choice unless quick and controlled surface rust removal is the prime directive without regard to resulting surface integrity.

[trp3141592]

Hi,

There's any number of videos on youtube, plus googled articles, about building (cheap, like under $20.00) a water-based de-rusting electrolysis tank. Electrolysis removes the rust but does not attack the iron/steel.

--Tom

[buick man]

I tried the process David described substituting vinegar and EvapoRust (used separately). I could not get mine freed up. I tried for days and days and never did get it to move a millimeter. I'll have to look into that Must For Rust stuff next time. I ended up gently prying mine into the OFF position and the car starts and runs just fine even in cold weather. Let us know how you fare.

Does not commercial vinegar have a high percentage of water added to it or at least the concentration pH of acid is low to be effective?

Edited December 7, 2013 by buick man (see edit history)

[buick man]

Hi,

There's any number of videos on youtube, plus googled articles, about building (cheap, like under $20.00) a water-based de-rusting electrolysis tank. Electrolysis removes the rust but does not attack the iron/steel.

--Tom

Yes this is true and a great little project to undertake. You will find however, the extent of your ability to truly convert deep embedded rust between various components as opposed to just surface rust removal gets somewhat more involved and your power requirements increase while still requiring removal, cleaning, banging, moving parts, re-immersions etc for the parts in question also you will get instant flash rust on the parts when removed from the tank. This is where the Must For Rust could then be used to apply a immediate conversion coat followed by a complete shop air drying job to set the conversion without risk of further flash rust.

[pont35cpe]

I`m rebuilding a `41 248 super, inline 8. Both heat risers were stuck in the closed position. I used a 50-50 mix of ATF and lacquer thinner, gave them both a good soaking. I noticed the flapper had a little room on one side of the flapper and the throat of the manifold. I then put it in my press and applied pressure to move the shaft sideways, they both freed up with no damage.. Good luck Tom

[Guest gksullivan]

+1 except ATF and acetone

[beerczar1976]

Quick update. Bought a gallon of molasses at Tractor Supply today; $9.99. Will hopefully begin the dip and wait process tonight. Just need to find a bucket or small tub with lid. While at TS I also noticed they sell WD-40 Professional Rust Removal Soak. Came in about a 1/2 gallon size. Looked more like for surface rust removal, though did list uses for auto restoration and farm equipment cleaning... Could be worth a try if the molasses soak doesn't work. Have all winter, plus as I said, this one's a spare.

[beerczar1976]

Molasses and water dip, 9 water:1 molasses ratio, started today. Sorry I didn't take a pic., but I'm sure everyone knows what a crusty heat riser valve looks like! The 9:1 ratio was found on the above posted link from YouTube. I'm hoping it works. All that I could think of was a nice hot bowl of B&M Boston Baked Beans. Mixture looks pretty much like flat Coca-Cola. I used hot water so that the molasses would melt and mix in instead of remaining a sludge coat at the bottom of the bucket. Oh yeah, by the way, apparently most places sell more bucket lids than buckets as Tractor Supply and Aubochon had plenty of buckets without lids, and those that are supposed to match up to a lid, that size of lid was out. Used plastic wrap held on to the bucket with painters tape. I was hoping to keep my science project up here in the warm house, but I think the wife wouldn't like that soo much. Down to the basement it goes; unfortunately not heated, so this may slow the process. I may try to bring it up overnight and leave it in the kitchen sink, putting it back down when the kitchen's in use.

[Wheelnut]

I think it needs to be warm enough to 'ferment' the molasses. So room temperature is probably best.

[Roadmaster75]

Wrap the bucket in Christmas lights (non LED) and accelerate the process….?

mike

['51 Special]

I used the molasses and water dip. Big plastic barrel, lots of molasses. I was going to be gone for a couple of months so I left the manifold (off of a 263 I-8) in the whole time. Came back, the manifold looked like new, but the flapper was still stuck. I also tried heat. No press so I didn't try that. Ended up cutting the flapper out. Seemed like a good idea until last week when I drove the Buick out of a warm (65 deg.) garage and out into -10 deg. I did get it to go all of the two miles I needed, but the choke pulled shut and stayed shut, not withstanding that the car was warm the whole time. I should have found a press.

'51

[beerczar1976]

Well guys, here we are at about 2 months from the dip process beginning. Bad news. Most of surface rust and lots of crud came off but flapper shaft was still stuck. Tried rotating the shaft by deadblows to the counterweight. Still no go, only ended up bending the arm that the counterweight is on. Also tried light hammering to the shaft itself as well. The flapper did end up moving, but broke free from the shaft. Flapper can now be easily pivoted to open or closed.

I guess the best bet is either spot weld the flap in the open position and use in that configuration, cut the flapper and shaft assembly out entirely, or use it eventually for a core turn-in. The valve I have on my car is stuck open, or at least best I can tell. I may also swap this altered one, welded into the fully open position, for my current one that is a little questionable. The dipped one did flash rust pretty quickly, but another shorter term dipping and a go over with a wire brush will take care of that. I had high-temp manifold paint ready to go, but didn't bother once I couldn't free up the shaft.

Thoughts?

[buick5563]

Cut it out and have a nice day.