Some questions from a newbie!

[Guest Balr14]

Hello all,

I've been looking for a nice collector car for awhile, something in a larger 4 door sedan that has a certain presence. I've pretty well narrowed things down to a 37 - 38 Buick and the 41 - 47 Packard Clipper. I'm leaning toward the Buick because of availability and I like the suicide doors. I have a couple of questions, but would welcome any additional tips or suggestions as well. This is new ground for me.

1. What is the difference between the Model 41 and Model 47? I can't seem to find anything. They both appear to be the smaller Special model.

2. When did Buick switch to all metal bodies from the wooden framed body with sheet metal tacked to it? I'm pretty sure Chevy switched in 1937, but I don't know about Buick.

3. Is the 6 volt electrical system going to pose any problems?

4. How difficult is it to get replacement parts for a 37 - 38 Buick?

5. I saw an ad selling a 1939 Buick with the stock engine and twin turbos. Is this possible, or some sort of scam?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Balr14 (see edit history)

[jscheib]

Question 5 first - even if the add meant twin carbs, that would not be a stock engine - they were '41 only.

Regarding question 4, I think it all depends on what parts you need. There are some excellent sources.

Regarding Question 1, one is a bustle trunk and the other a sloping back. The same would hold also for the larger series cars.

Question 2 - I think '37 has the wood frame, '38 and later, all steel, but others can verify.

Question 3, any old wiring can be a problem.

Hope this helps and welcome to the forum You might consider joining the BCA.

John

[Thriller]

Buick experimented with turbos in the mid-60s, but I believe the first stock ones were in the late 1970s. Stock engine with twin turbos implies that it is a modified car. There was a mid year change on the 1939 grill to allow for more air flow to the radiator.

I know 1936 was still steel over wood body. I'm pretty sure 1938 was all metal, but can't recall 1937.

6 V systems are not an issue in and of themselves so long as they are maintained. 6 V bulbs are available, as are new batteries. Really, it all comes down to maintenance.

Mechanical parts are reasonably easy to get (not as easy as some more popular brands, but still generally available). More difficult is to find the unique stuff, such as body or trim. That said, there were many of these built, so there are parts cars out there, and some parts can be fabricated. The sheet metal is heavier, so tends not to rust through nearly as quickly as on newer cars.

As John suggests, the BCA provides good support with technical advisors and parts ads in the monthly magazine.

[FLYER15015]

Balr14,

Leaning toward a collector car ? Got a body style you really really love ? If you don't LOVE it, it's just work.......

Is this an investment or a new hobby ? If you don't driv'em, you might as well collect clocks.

Are you "mechanical" ? Paying somebody $60-80 an hour to work on your car gets REAL expensive REAL fast.

You need to find just the car you want, and in a state of disrepair that you can handle.

Check the buy / sell forum here, or check www.carsonline.com to get a feel for pricing.

So the bottom line is, we need a lot more information, to make a recommendation.

Joining the AACA and BCA is a must........

PS where are you ? Has a lot to do with shopping for cars and parts. SoCal is easy, Bismark, ND = not so easy.

Mike in Colorado

Edited October 19, 2013 by FLYER15015 (see edit history)

[Guest Balr14]

Here's a link to that 39 turbo. It could use correct wheels and tires, running boards and some chrome trim for the grille. But, otherwise it looks like a lot of work has been done. I'm sure curious about that turbo setup, too. I want a big old, impressive sized, classic looking 4 door sedan. I'm looking for a driver, not an investment. I don't want something that's perfect or costs so much I'll be afraid to drive it. If it looks original, I don't even care about the running gear, as long as it doesn't have automatic transmission.

I used to build cars when I was younger, so working on cars of this age doesn't scare me. I replaced all of the wooden framing on a 34 Oldsmobile with steel. I spent many hours cutting shaping and welding door frames, window frames, supports, etc. I have no desire to do that again, so I'm beign careful to avoid wooden framed bodies. I have family members I can put to work, too.

I am located in SE Wisconsin, around Milwaukee. This car is located in Illinois, not too far away. I am planning to go take a look at it in a week or two. But, I am concerned about the missing parts I mentioned. Also concerned that a lot of the inventory carried by this dealer looks like crap.

39 turbo link: http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/buick/unspecified/1586565.html

Edited October 19, 2013 by Balr14 (see edit history)

[jscheib]

It sounds like you would like to take this "mild custom" back to near original. That could be some work. I think you could find an original in rather good shape for that price, plus the cost of changes. However, this looks like a nice car for someone looking for that type car. It seems to be some clever person crafted an intake manifold for the car, and if it runs well, perhaps not so good. I offer one warning sometimes projects like this are sold because the owner determined he did not achieve his goal, and has grown tired. in summary, it looks like a nice car, but if you want the original look, I would search elsewhere. But that is just my opinion.

John

[Mark Shaw]

Before you buy, check the frame support for the trunk. 1939 models had a weakness that caused the trunk to sag. Dealer installed supports were offered, but not always installed. This car may have other modifications other than the intake changes that you need to look for. I suggest you contact the local BCA club to see if someone knowledgeable is available to look at this car with you.

Good luck,

[Guest BigDogDaddy]

In my opinion, this car will be nothing but a nightmare. It is a very amateur attempt at a street rod. The only way to build this car is to gut it out and start from scratch. So basically you are only buying a body and a frame. The twin turbo set up is a homemade contraption since no such thing exists. It may be well made, but who knows. Was the engine rebuilt to handle the pressure from the turbos ? If so who built it ? Did they do the job correctly, or did they cut corners ? They couldn't even be bothered do make an attempt at a decent wheel set up. They put late model Ford police hubcaps on a classic Buick ? ! They should have left those off. It would have looked better.

[Guest Balr14]

Thank you for your comments, gentlemen. The more I look and think about it, the less appealing that 39 is. If it's not too much trouble, I'd like opinions on these two 37s:

http://www.cars-on-line.com/67782.html

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/buick/41/1601065.html

The first one is only about 30 miles away, but is basically original and has very low miles.

The second is about 300 miles away and has had a lot of work and is cheaper.

I guess I don't know if very low miles means much when the car is over 70 years old.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Balr14 (see edit history)

[Thriller]

Budget becomes a factor. Check out post #20 in http://forums.aaca.org/f115/thriller-wildcat465s-excellent-adventure-358110.html - that's on highway 8 east of Rhinelander. From what you've stated, it is most likely more of a project than you are interested in though.

Low mileage on a car that old may actually be a detriment. While some wear items may not be (as) worn, if the running gear doesn't get used regularly, bad things can happen over time (rust, water / condensation issues, etc.). It wouldn't hurt to check it out.

If you look at the one in Lakeland, there are two active Buick Club of America chapters in the Twin Cities area, so someone is likely familiar with the car and someone may be willing to go over it with you if you make the trip.

Good luck. Fall is a good time for buyers when some folks lose storage and need to sell. More cars are generally advertised in the spring though (when there is greater demand for those driver quality cars which can drive prices up).

[Guest BigDogDaddy]

Both of those cars are good candidates. I would take a look at the car that is closer to you. Ask questions, take it for a ride. Have you driven cars of this era before, or is this all new for you ? Both ads say "or best offer" so you have some room to work with. The car that is 300 miles away is more difficult to check out, but it sounds like much important work has been done on the car. You have to consider the price of the car, how much work was done that you won't have to do. Plus the cost of going to look at the car, and the cost of shipping it back home.

[Guest Balr14]

I'm going to see if I can look at the car nearby in a week or two. I have driven and owned many cars of this era when I was younger. I'm 70 years old. They are all I could afford when I was young. But, I never owned a nice one. These were the "beaters" you bought for $35 - $150. I bought my first car when I was 14 because it was cheaper than a decent bike and made it easier to haul the morning paper I delivered. I guess I miss those cars now.

Any comments on the prices of the 2 cars I linked? There seems to be a lot of nice Specials available for less than $20k. I don't want to do a lot of work or track down lots of missing parts. I'm happy to do maintenance and repairs. I'd even buy one with an upgraded drive train if it didn't have automatic transmission. I have been driving manual transmissions for over 50 years and don't like automatic.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Balr14 (see edit history)

[Mark Shaw]

I would go for the Lakeland car.

It has had most of the common issues fixed. At the lower price, you could do a bit more to it for the same $ spent on the other one.

[old-tank]

Even if you found that $150 'beater' again you could not get it to the condition of either of these cars for less than their posted prices.

[JohnD1956]

As so often happens, here is an opposing view. If the owner can document the milage on the 19K car, and if test drives show both to be equal in driveability, then I would go with the low milage one. It may never need the work the higher milage one recieved. And chances are it already received some of the work along the way, and just has not been noted in the advertisement.

One distraction to the 15K car is the color it was painted. Black Metallic. I don't think that was available then, and I don't think it looks as nice as the color on the 19K one.

[Guest Balr14]

I really appreciate all the response and different viewpoints. Buying old cars seems like such a "crapshoot".

About those $150 beaters I had way back then.... there's no way they would have ever been restored. Parts for cars from the 30s were very hard to find in the 50s and 60s, depending on where you lived. There just wasn't any way to know where to look. So, you pretty much made due with what you had or could find. The closest I ever came to having a complete and original vehicle was a 37 Chevy coupe with a GMC 6 cylinder truck engine and transmission. It drove like a truck, too.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Balr14 (see edit history)

[FLYER15015]

Blair14,

I WOULD GO FOR THE LAKEWOOD CAR !!!!!

Just because I like "trunk back" Buicks, and there appears to be a bit of wiggle room in the OBO posted in the ad.

I don't know what the interior kit cost was, but to have just the bench and backs recovered in mine was six hundred + I bought the material.

Mike in Colorado

[bhambulldog]

Here's a nice Century for sale on V8Buick.com

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=274392

[Guest Balr14]

The Century is the next model up from the Special? How is it different? I don't have a good idea of how a 40 Buick relates to the Chevy or Pontiac in size. Style seems very similar.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

The Century is the next model up from the Special? How is it different? I don't have a good idea of how a 40 Buick relates to the Chevy or Pontiac in size. Style seems very similar.

From the cowel back, they are the same, Century has the 322 ci engine versus 248 in the Special. About the same as a Pontiac, a little larger than Chevy.

Ben

[Guest Balr14]

Here's an unrelated question: Is there any advantage/disadvantage to the fender mounted spare tires I see on some of the models? Also, I see some with the rearview mirrors attached to the these spares. That seems to me to put the mirrors too far away to be very effective?

[jscheib]

Not to be a wise guy, but European cars had fender mounted mirrors for many years in 20s and 30s. But you are correct, they are hard to use and also some vibrate when moving. Fender mounted spares. They car destroy the finish also, especially when using the metal covers, but it is just a maintenance issue. Main reason was appearance and still is, I suppose, for restorations.

John

[Guest Balr14]

I am finding a fair number of nice Buicks for sale, from the 1937 - 1939 model years. I have been doing my best to educate myself about them and one of the things that struck me is the published weights I've found seem to be on the light side. A 1937 Model 40 runs just over 3300 lbs and the heaviest regular models seem to be under 4000 lbs. The Special 4 door models appear to be 3400 - 3500lbs, the Century is less than 100 lbs more. I would appreciate any comments as to the accuracy of this information.

Anyway, that leads to my next question. Is the performance of the 248 ci engine adequate, or should I be looking for something with the 322 ci engine?

[FLYER15015]

Blar,

I don't think classic Buicks are sold "by the pound". Just pick out the year / style you like.

Going back to your first post, you're looking for a "collector car". So you need to tell us what you are going to do with it.

Are you going to set it in the living room and look at it, or do you want a "driver" ?

Are you mechanical, or will you farm out all the work ? I can not paint, but all the rest is a snap.

Is this a new hobby and a "labor of love" or just something to flip ?

Got to have lots more info from you to steer you in the right direction..................

[Guest Balr14]

If you are hauling around a 4500 lb car with 100 hp, the odds are good you are going to be a traffic hazard; and that isn't fun!

I have stated before, I'm looking for a "driver". I have no interest in collecting or investing, or flipping, or whatever. I would like something that is as complete and as finished as possible. I'm not looking for a show piece, just a decent looking, reliable car. I worked on many cars from the 30s and 40s when I was younger. They were crap and we did whatever we needed to do to keep them going. I can and have done everything on these older cars; motor swaps, top chops, interiors, blowers, you name it. I used to paint, but it's too toxic now, for the facilities I have. I have even welded a broken frame rail on the side of a road using the car battery. Just because I can do it, doesn't mean I want to. The less I need to do the better. But, if I have to, I will. I also have a son-in-law who is a huge car nut and is more than willing to do just about anything, plus my brother-in-law builds cars. My previous experience with old cars has been with Chevy, Ford and Plymouth and Willys, 2 doors and coupes. Looking at Buicks, Cadillacs and Packards is a whole different ball game. I always wanted one, but they are way out of my comfort zone. So, I'm just being real careful.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Balr14 (see edit history)

[FLYER15015]

Balr,

Now we know your story, GO GET THE LAKEWOOD CAR, and enjoy the ride..............