Generation Gap??

[Guest]

After making a comeback to the antique car hobby, I've noticed three generations of people with different levels of interest in antique cars. In the older crowd, nearly every person seems interested. In the mid-generation, there seems to be a 50-50 interest. Within the younger generation there seems to be little to no interest. At the risk of being biased, I always look at an older vehicle when it drives by and say "wow, look at that car"! I meet many young people on the street and they don't even seem to realize their seeing anything unusual. Are there really less younger people interested in the "hobby", or is it just me??? I'd hate to see the antique car thing slip into obscurity in the generations to come.

[56clipper]

<P>As a 25 year old member of the old car hobby, I’d have to disagree a little about the lack of interest on the part of us younger folk. Younger people (especially teenagers) are interested in cars in general, but mostly in the performance/customization end. This doesn’t necessarily translate into disinterest in old cars. I’ll give an example. I teach high school history (11th and 12th grade) and also happen to own a 1956 Packard Clipper Super. On occasion, I will drive my car to school, and numerous students come up to me to complement me on my car, even the ones who are hell-bent on destroying as many cars as they can through customization. Living in the same town as I teach, I’ll see students around town, and receive the same compliments on my car.<BR><P>One of the things that discourages younger people from entering this hobby is the cost. Purchasing a car from the fifties and earlier is quite an undertaking. I lucked out and got a good find on eBay! Also, since performance is very attractive to younger hobbyists, their tastes run to later muscle cars. And of course, the definition of what is “collectable” is changing (not to get into an argument over what is “classic” or not!) A lot of people define interesting cars by what they owned or what there relatives owned when they were younger. I do have a soft spot for my grandfather’s 1973 Cadillac Coupe deVille, though not too many people may think that is a great collector car.<BR><P>Two college friends and myself were involved in the purchase of several cars in our 4 years of college. We purchased (and still own) a 1953 Cadillac Coupe deVille, a 1955 Cadillac Fleetwood, a 1951 Packard Patrician, A 1954 Packard Clipper Club Coupe, and a 1966 Cadillac Sedan deVille. I bought a ’56 Clipper Super, sold it, and bought a better one! I persist in owning it and trying to fix its maladies on what is at the moment a limited income (especially since I’m getting married next August – good thing I bought the car before getting engaged!)<BR><P>My final point is that for many younger people the interest is there, but the means are not. The appreciation of older cars may also ripen with time. I know I notice every old car on the road, and have almost killed myself trying to look at them while I’m driving. I like old cars because they have a presence and feel to them that no new car can ever have. I also know that numerous younger people have noticed and clearly appreciate my own cars and other historic cars.<BR><P>BTW, if you want to look at some pictures of my ’56 Clipper (I like to show it off!) you can see it at <A HREF="http://www.pitt.edu/~rss3/oldcars.html">http://www.pitt.edu/~rss3/oldcars.html</A>. <p>[ 07-07-2002: Message edited by: 56clipper ]

[Dynaflash8]

Robert's story about the 56 Packard sure makes me feel good. I'd hate to think America's love affair with the automobile is going to turn over to collecting old computers or something. <P>Having started out in AACA at 23, making about $4500 a year, with a house payment and two kids I know all too well about having more interest then means. We paid a babysitter one night a month to go to the car club meeting in Baltimore, and that was our night out each month.<P>But things got better and better and by the time I was 40 I could do most of what I wanted to do with old cars, except tours and by the time I was 55 I could do that. <P>So, if any younger people are reading this, have heart. It all comes to those who wait, as my Mother used to tell me.

[Guest]

Oldsman ( have to be careful to include the s), I can relate to all that has been said. I believe when you are young you are more interested in NOW and the FUTURE then what went on before you came along. You still have your future ahead of you and you will eventually live it. As you age, you start to recall your youth and maybe yearn for the older days and posessions. My first car bought with paper route money was a 50 Mercury so my first antique car was a 49 Mercury bought 30 years later. Frankly, our hobby is a very expensive one today, and young families with children pulled in many directions with school, little league, job security, future education planning etc dont have the time or money to take an active interest in the hobby. That interest will come for many. Do you realize we will be accepting cars from the 80's in the AACA by 2005.

[Guest]

Very good points indeed. I couldn't get back into the hobby until I reached my forties. Prior to that I went to the shows and dreamed. Along the way I changed my mind about the car I'd have when the means became available. I went from wanting a "34" ford, to a "70" Z-28, to a "64" thunderbird, to a mid-"50's" oldsmobile. Now that I have a olds, I'm leaning towards a "56" coupe deville! Dream on.

[Dave@Moon]

Here I go again!<P>Robert's story is not entirely uncommon, but atypical none-the-less. And, also note the age difference between his car and he. It becomes very important to this issue.<P>I'd venture to say that most of us <I>originally</I> got into this hobby based on fond feelings for cars of our youth. If we were fortunate, we had parents that had similar dispositions and the cars of <I>our</I> were in fact the cars of <I>their</I> youth. There are a number of younger hobbiest that have been introduced to the hobby that way. (Based on comments he's made to me so far, I'd say my 10 year old is a shoe-in for the hobby.)<P>Now, let's say you're 25 <I>and</I> not so fortunate to have been raised by "car-people". What are the cars of "your" youth? <P>Well, you would've been born in 1977. You're too young to remember the Pinto or Gremlin as new cars, or even commonplace used cars. Fiat, AMC, Alfa-Romeo, Yugo, Sterling, Triumph, MG, Imperial, Checker, International, Renault, et al have been gone longer than you can remember (in this country), literally. And all of that is to say nothing of "muscle cars", Pre-Miata "sports cars", or real full-size cars. <P>So what are "you" left with?<P>Well, "you" turned 16 in 1993. Unless you were of very fortunate birth, "your" first car wasn't a prime model of the 1990's (Miata, Supra, MR-2, CRX, etc.). Chances are you started out in beat-up Chevies just like your father and your grand-father.<P><I>Only "your" Chevy was a 1984 Cavalier!</I> Or what was left of one. <P><I>And now to make my point. If <B>ANY</B> of us were restricted to driving nothing but base-line inexpensive used cars from the 1980's as our personal transportation, just how interested would any of us be in leaving a car in "authentic" condition?</I><P>It's a frightening thought, isn't it?<P>No one under 45 year old today remembers a time when cars on the market available to us were well respected or the envy of Europe. We grew up in an era when a Honda was all of those things. A Chevy (or Ford. or Cadillac, or God-forbid a lean-burn Chrysler) was something you not only wanted to modify but <I>had</I> to on a frequent basis if only to keep it on the road. There are very few stories from my generation of great old cars of our youth that happily went a quarter-million miles with minimal service. <P>My 409 (or '38 Dodge, or '55 Chevy) was a Datsun. I don't remember too many good songs being written about Datsuns in 1980!<P>As to how Robert and his friends became interested in cars outside of their own generation, he doesn't say and it isn't imperative to know. The things that interest and fascinate us in this hobby are not unique to those of the generation coincidental to the cars. <B>BUT we can no longer assume that those interests/values/ideas/joys are self-evident!</B> Young people look at <I>our</I> old Chevies, and remember <I>their</I> old Chevies. If most of your ingrained knowledge of car maintenance is tracing bad throttle position snesor circutry, how in the world are you going to appreciate the beauty of simplicity that we enjoy?<P>Somebodies got to show 'em! Now!

[Guest]

Dave, I sincerely hope your 10 year old son will feel as he does now and follow in your footsteps as far as old car interest goes as he matures. There are easily 25 couples in our club who have been members many years and whose kids were basically raised in the club and with old cars. I have seen them working on and polishing cars, helping at meets etc.These kids are grown now, with children of their own, but not one is a club <BR>member and only one has an interest in old <BR>cars. It is kind of strange that of the young members we have, their parents have no interest. I think Doug Drakes program of the car and its parts done at national meets is very important to our hobby and is introducing kids to our wonderful hobby that would otherwise have no contact.

[56clipper]

I don't necessarily think that being raised by car people dictates that you will grow up to become a car person. It can certainly help, though. To answer an asked question, my own fascination with old cars comes from my grandfather, who worked for Cadillac for a very long time. My shrine as a kid (up to age 12, when he sold it ) was his 1959 Sedan deVille. That, especially to a young kid, was like the holy grail of cars, something so different from what we were driving around in normally. So yes, my own love of the hobby comes from another car guy. My other friends? Neither of them come directly from people who had old cars, though my one friend's uncle taught him to drive stick on a '58 Corvette. <P>I think that there are two interesting questions at work here. One is what interest do the younger people have, and the second is what will become of the hobby with 80's cars becoming, by definition, "old". Yes, I was born in 1976. Yes, my first car was a 1984 Nissan hatchback (that dropped it's transmission behind my high school senior year). I certainly won't be seeking that car out later. I said in my first post that I didn't think that any newer car could hold a candle to a (at the risk of being yelled at_ classic car. I do, however, think that there are more young people who appreciate old cars than may seem apparent. I also think that many of us younger folk will take up the reigns as we get older, and get the means to purchase more expensive big boy toys. <P>Using my three friends as an example, we've all come to be fanatical devotees of the Packard make. None of us obviously grew up around them, I don't even think any of us knew what one was more than ten years ago. Yet we three managed to buy (and keep) 3 Packards of our own by age 23. I hope we give some hope to those who dispair of the future of the hobby! <P>Just as a side note, while in college there were some other students on campus who had old cars. There was one girl who drove a '67 Chevy, a guy with a '62 Buick Special, another with a '68 Mustang (stock), and one night school student with a '55 Ford sedan. With the exception of the night school guy, all were under 23.

[Dynaflash8]

My experience in the Chesapeake Region exactly mirrored those that Dayton has written. We had all sorts of model and doll programs, but nothing like what Doug does. I think Doug is onto something.<P>To Dave, I was born in '38, my Dad drove a '39 Buick from '41-51 and my first car at 16 was a '39 Buick. Sometimes I don't admit it, that one got away but I've got one just like it. It's going to Kentucky too. But I'm not mired in the '30s. The current restoration going on is a '71 Riviera like the one my wife and I drove from '77 to '91. I think there were some good cars in the '70s for the younger generation to enjoy.<P>Second generation folks in our hobby are often strong leaders. We just had a new Region formed in Nebraska by a second generation collector, meaning his Dad was a member. <P>In my case I sure didn't get my love for old cars from my Dad. My Dad was always furious with me in my younger years anytime I bought an old car. Eventually he just sort of "gave in". <P>[ 07-07-2002: Message edited by: Dynaflash8 ]<P>[ 07-07-2002: Message edited by: Dynaflash8 ]<p>[ 07-08-2002: Message edited by: Dynaflash8 ]

[Guest]

Those of you on here who know me, probably know of my 40 year intense involvement in AACA. My children are 38 and 41. They grew up in the AACA, among AACA people and among my cars and those on AACA judging fields around the country<P>Maybe that was overkill by accident. <P>Neither one of them ever developed any interest in the AACA, my old cars or for that matter any old cars. They can both afford to buy and maintain an antique car [no children]. They could have one of mine, but don't want it. To them a car is transportation and nothing more.<P>Am I disappointed? NO! I have absolutely no interest in some of the things that were of great interest to my father, so why should I expect them to get wrapped up in my passions?<P>Maybe my kids are unusual where it comes to old cars, but maybe not. Just don't set your heart on having your kids follow your love of old cars. The world changes, it always has and always will.<P>As for the future of the old car hobby as we older folks knew it; remember, nothing lasts forever. Look at Rome, the British Empire and the USSR. <P>Howard Scotland

[Guest]

Many reasons have been given in this thread for the apparent lack of interest in old cars among today's young people. I think that it is due to a combination of factors.<P>First, there is the cost of a car. Many young people and/or families simply cannot afford to buy a car that can't be used for transportation. Even a commonplace car like a Chevy, Ford or Plymouth (another goner, by the way) can cost between $ 5,000 to $15,000 to buy. A lot of folks don't have that kind of dough laying around. Not to mention restoration costs, should that be necessary. Second, space. A car takes up room to park and a lot of young people aren't lucky enough to have five acres and a big garage. Third, not everyone wants to participate in competitive exhibition. I let my AACA membership lapse last year because I got tired of seeing the pictures of the perfectly restored cars in the magazine and having that ideal held up as the club objective, cost be damned. I have a beautiful (to me anyway) 1960's antique car that is 95% original, and has been appraised in 1+ condition, but to restore it to the condition required to win one of those awards would cost over $50,000, which is beyond my means. I know of a lot of old cars in my area that are presentable and driveable , but whose owners aren't interested in competition. (Just as an aside, I don't feel comfortable driving my car to far distant shows anymore and to trailer it would be another $20,000 to $30,000 for a tow vehicle and trailer.) Fourth, attitude (or aptitude). A lot of younger people, as some of you have mentioned, grew up with cars that had to go to the shop for anything more serious than gas or oil. They simply have not learned to maintain a car as I did when I was young. And very few service facilities want to work on old cars.<P>I haven't driven my antique car in over a year now and am thinking of selling it, as it has become harder and harder to care for (especially parts). But I've had the car for 25 years and I really don't want to let "her" go.<P>I wish those of you who are AACA "diehards" luck in keeping interest in the hobby, but I think you are going to have an uphill fight.

[Guest BruceW]

Before I joined the AACA, I admit that I was under the perception of the AACA as mainly competition of high dollar cars (as Lone Wolf suggests). And I was not alone as I also knew many other people with the same perception.<P>I was 30 when I bought my first drivable antique. I had a fair paying job but also a wife, two kids and a house to support. The antique was a 1957 Chevrolet Pickup that I bought on a whim for $1200 in 1991. It was a rough drivable truck .. and not too bad to look at (from 30+ feet) .. but still a $1200 driver. I had no inclination of ever being able to make it a show car for competition. So there was no need in my mind to join a club like AACA.<P>Then my friend, who happen to grow up in an AACA family, talked us into joining Harford Region. I was at first hesitant to drive the truck anywhere that the club had its other cars. However, I soon realized I was accepted as a member by the region just the same as the people with the $110,000+ cars. We drove that truck on the region's weekend trips, progressive dinners, day tours, picnics and all other events the region held.<P> I eventually started to drive the truck to our region sponsored shows just to add another vehicle. I was embarrased to have it in the line up at first, however, I often found many people looking at the old truck in its rough, unrestored condition, commenting about how they really liked that style of truck, how they's like to have one, and often someone made an offer to buy it.<P>This was long before I knew what the National was. For a long time, I still thought the AACA was was compitition based for the high dollar cars of wealthy owners. Later as a repeat attendee of the Annual Meeting in Philly, I learned there was more to AACA. Now, As anyone that personally knows me..I am very Pro-AACA and enjoy being an active member and participant on all levels possible.<P> However, I believe many outsiders still have the misconception that I once had. I believe this is one reason that the region level involvement is important to AACA. it lets people "get their feet wet". It provides fun activities that may be easier for younger people to afford while introducing them to the national part of the AACA without the misconception from here-say. <P>I've rambled on long enough that I am not sure I ever did get my point across.. but I hope so. Maybe its just to say that there are ways for the younger generation to afford being a part of and enjoying the AACA.. if they are adequately promoted.<P>Just a thought.<p>[ 07-08-2002: Message edited by: BruceW ]

[Dynaflash8]

Yes Bruce,you did get your point across, and I don't know how anybody could have said it any better.<P>Judy and I drove our old Buick as a second car until I got a few raises and could do something to it. We joined the Chesapeake Region and that provided impetus to take the car and enjoy old car activity with others, ourselves and our two daughters. When in 1965 it burned a rod bearing, it was two Region members who helped me get it out, get it fixed and back into the car. Bruce's point about being active in a Region can't be underestimated. Judy and I made truly lifelong friends that way. It's tough to find enough uses for that old car, as Lone Wolf indicated he has found, when you're all alone trying to find a new road to ride in your area. Just think of the insurance costs today if an insurance program hadn't been formulated with the help of the car club way back in 1964?<P>I am Earl Beauchamp, Jr., AACA VP Regions. I invite all AACA members who aren't active in a Region or Chapter to join one and really take part. There's a lot more fun to owning an old car than just working on it and looking at it.<P>As for the National competition, sometimes you just have to have patience. That same old $120 Buick we bought in 1963 won a Grand National Senior in 1998. My mother used to tell me, everything will come to those who wait...or something like that <BR> <p>[ 07-08-2002: Message edited by: Dynaflash8 ]

[29 Chandler]

It has been less than a year now since my wife and I joined the AACA and about a year since I found this DF. My wife and I are in our early 30's with a 3 year old son. We don't have nearly the time I wish we had to spend fix up our old Chandler. We make it to a few swapmeets a year (would be more, but we have not found any more worth attending in Southern CA). The "older" people we meet are generally very enouraging when meet them. It is a little uncomfortable for us a we are generally the youngest ones at an event. But our love of old cars and quest for Chandler stuff keeps us out there.<BR>One of the problems our hobby seems to have for people of my generation is the tremendous learning curve. Doing something simple like changing a tire requires special tools or know how. (Still can't find the right split rim tool for our 19" wheels.)So many people want to be able to open a catalog or go to a web site to order a part. All of the above reasons for the apparent generation gap a true; time, money and space. I have hope that our generation will help preserve the automotive history that is avaiable to us and carry on the hobby.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

With "Preservation" for current and future generations in mind, my thoughts:<P>From a no-junior award to a Senior Grand National; from an HPOF, Driver Participation, or, a "No Club Involvement Driver", each and every one of us is directly/indirectly preserving our personal interests and having enjoyment doing it.<P>My $ .04 worth (If postal rates can skyrocket, so, can my two-cents.)<P>Regards, Peter J.

[Guest]

Chris ~ If you will, please send me a complete description with sketches and pictures, if possible, of your split rims.<P>I will try to determine what tool or tools you need for the job, or at worst some ways of using common tools to do the job.<P>H V Scotland<BR>PO box 2660<BR>Cheyenne, WY 82003

[Guest]

My experience is that the 'younger set' finds old cars and motorcycles quite fascinating. OF COURSE the vehicles DO have to run!. My 56 Packard seems to always turn heads when going down the road or parked in a parking lot. This seems to be true of all younger age brackets 8 - 30 years of age. The 48 Indian is an attention getter too as well as the 56 Cushman. Younger women seem to be fascinated too.

[Guest]

I'm glad to see that not everyone is oriented toward owning a high dollar restoration. Perhaps I should explain myself a bit more. I might just be bummed out because my car is not running right now and hasn't for a while. I need a certain part that I can't seem to locate anywhere (even the internet). It's not a lot of fun to participate in antique car events in a late model car. Also, as my name implies, I'm not big on socializing, having few friends rather than many and no family. I've also had a lot of distractions from the car hobby in the last couple of years. Maybe if I can get the car running again, I'll be able to get out to some of the local shows I used to attend.<P>But enough of the blues. I think that if you have an old car and can get it out sometime and "show it off", even if it is original, you will help generate interest in the hobby. I know mine used to.

[Guest]

LW~What part are you after?

[Ron Green]

Lone Wolf, You seem to be focused on the high dollar amount of the hobby (show cars)more then the big picture. Yes there are some expensive show cars and tow rigs at the national events however without these owners willing to spend there time and money to haul these vehicles all over the country we would never get a chance to see these restored show pieces. Many of the owners are older and there kids have left the nest, hence they have more money and time.<P>I think most car people have a driver antique that is used for tours, meets, get togethers, etc. But the most important thing to me on owning a antique vehicle is meeting other car people, helping each other out, making new friends and just having a good time be it owning a Packard or a Chevy, show car or beater!<P>I am helping a gentlemen out that is legally blind and lives 1200 miles from me, however he wants to finish restoring his car even though he may never get to drive it. It has taken a lot of my time taking pictures of my car and locating parts for him that I really do not have, however he is very grateful. Thats what it is all about!

[ex98thdrill]

Yeah Ron,<BR> You're right, you can definately tell how people's financial conditions are just by looking in the parking lot, from $100,000+ motor coaches with matching trailers, to tired old trucks with a towbar, down to driving the cars to the show, the membership comes from all walks of life. The one thing that I can say is that for the most part, everyone is repectfull and courteous (for the most part)and usually have a genuine interest in the other members and their cars.....regardless of someone's financial situation. <BR> I know how the money thing works, but in our case, my father owns the enclosed trailer and I own the truck. Once we get our woodie wagon done, we may use my father's truck and our open trailer so we can run two rigs. To do a good restoration and to buy an enclosed trailer to protect your investment, it sure doesn't take long to sink $30,000+ just to roll down the road without the car (just the rig). <BR> To add to the cost, I bought an electric winch for the trailer so he can winch the cars into the trailer and not risk scratching something by driving it in. Not knowing when or if I'll be coming home, I didn't want him using a come-along and I didn't want him trying to load the cars without someone there to help him. Without me in the picture, it gives me one less thing to worry about.<BR> I can remember when my father and I went to Johnstown last year (June, 2001) I can remember several people commenting on how my dad and I were both involved, and how they wish their kids had the same interest. In my case, the cars is all I've ever known. We've got the antques that were prevelent when my father was a young man, and we've got some muscle cars that caught my eye during my youth as well. To be honest with you, we love them all, but it would require a lot of soul searching if we had to part with something. Despite owning several Ford Mustangs and a Dodge 'Lil Red Express truck, our last purchase was made by me and it was a '42 Ford Fire Truck.<BR> You're right, not everyone can afford to own a Packard, and not everyone can afford a Cadillac or Lincoln. But the beauty of AACA is that those who can afford the expensive cars have them, and those who have a limited budget can drive cars that the common folk drove during that era. It isn't uncommon to see a Packard, Dusenburg or Chord sitting there with more money in chrome than what some people have invested in their whole cars. But with the different financial situations everyone has, it allows us to see MOST of the cars that are out there and it doesn't descriminate against members because of what someone has.

[ronbarn]

ex98thdrill, Bless you my son. I am convinced that one of the best things a son can do for his father is to make sure his trailer has a winch, whether it is an open or closed trailer. Yes it adds to the cost, but the wear and tear on the car owners psyche without a winch makes the expense worth it. Will never own another trailer without that essential component. The next item to consider is an electric jack for the tongue. I thought that was ridiculous for years, but have recently learned different. Think about it. <P>By the way, where are you located?

[RoadsterRich]

I bought my car for something for Dad and I to work on together. Seems I waited a little later than was wise, these days he sits, nods, tells me things, and does the tool gophering. Best advice I can give anyone is that time goes by quickly, if you want to work on something with your father/son, best you do it now, tomorrow is sooner than you think. As to finances, well I didn't think a Chrysler was going to be nearly as expensive as it seems to be turning out to be. On the positive side I am running out of major components to need. My major big expenses remaining are wood work, paint, upholstery and top, oh and of course chrome. Fortunately the 1930 Chrysler 77 Roadster is not too chromey compared to its cousin the 80 Imperial. Having used a come along to get the beast up on a borrowed open trailer for its first car show (unrestored), I will definitely be investing in an electric wench right off the bat. As to tow vehicles, I'm shooting for a used Suburban with a 454, preferably older and maybe not so pretty, but cheap. Looks like I may have a custom trailer here in the next month or two if I can swing the $$$, it is enclosed, and made specifically for a 1930 Chrysler 77 Roadster. Of course being custom limits its use, but also makes the price for it used much more attractive as well. Oops, looks like I am doing my usual rambling, take care all!<P>Rich

[ex98thdrill]

Due to security reasons, I can't say exactly, but it is in a country where there is a lot of sand, no shade, and it ends in s-t-a-n. I will tell you this much, if anyone ever tells you that the grass is greener on the other side, slap 'em upside the head. There isn't any grass over here, and the cobras and vipers cruising around this place don't have engines and transmissions if you know what I mean. It isn't a pretty place, but at least I've gotten a little more respect and appreciation for living on "the good side" of the big pond.<BR> As for my father's trailer, I look at it as a positive investment. Before I left I bought it for him, and we got it rigged up where we can take it off and use in on both car trailers. <BR> I'd still give anything to be back home. The time spent over here is lost time in the shop and it sure sucks when you plan your entire allotment of vacation time at work for the year going to shows and now you can't go. I was hoping to go to the Purchase show and get into judging school, and then go to Hershey. With any luck we'll get our Senior with the truck while I'm gone so we can shoot for our Grand National when I get back. <BR> Although I'm not involved in any regional chapters, I miss the cars. This old Russian junk over has a lot to be desired.

[ronbarn]

ex, thanks for the explanation. The NY address on your registration did not sound consistent with some of your comments. Best of luck to you and return safely. I understand your situation. Been there - done that.

[Guest]

Rich ~ Don't make your trailer too specific for one car. In the future you might wind up with another car which could be longer, wider or higher; or all of the above.<P>Like Father Ron says, "Been there and done that." ~hvs

[Peter J.Heizmann]

ex98thDrill...<P>As Ron and Howard stated, I too echo the "Been there, done that." In the war Ron and I were involved in, it was not all that popular we found out upon returning. My thoughts are the same today, "so what". The fact we served is the grit. <P>I feel safe in speaking for all vets on this forum, that in the long haul as years go by upon your return, your honorable service to this country will far out-weigh missing hobby related events, except for time with your relatives. Keep up the good work and be safe.<P>Regards, Peter <P>

[ex98thdrill]

Yeah Peter, you're right, but regardless of how things go, you can't bring back the time that you lost ....life is short. My father is 62, he's healthy, but you never know how things could turn out. Of course if something were to happen where we couldn't work on cars together, my time over here would be lost. That's my concern. My home is East Bloomfield, New York, but I couldn't justify changing my registration to the middle east. But yes, you have an AACA member in the desert and no I haven't found any car parts or swap meats.

[Dynaflash8]

ex -- when you get back home, make sure you and your Dad look into joining a Region or Chapter up there in NY. It will add a great deal to your enjoyment of the hobby. Keeps you informed, makes you new friends, and some of them will have needed info on parts, parts sources and places to get stuff done. I'm just a little older than your Dad, I'm 63, but I've got 40 years in AACA and in the hobby. It would have been a lot less fun without the Regions I've belonged to and the people I've met and known in this great hobby.<BR> <BR>And thanks for being there in the sand hills for the rest of us. You have our gratitude.<p>[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Dynaflash8 ]

[Guest]

I am now thirty seven (37) and have been a CCCA (Classic Car Club of America) member for longer than I can remember. My friends seem very interested in my 30's - 40's cars, (as well as other peoples) though really do not know what they are looking at without a little explanation. They are far more able to recognize and relate to sixties, seventies, and eighties cars (rare or common place). Their enthusiasm also dies down somewhat when they find out they are financially beyond their grasp and when they see the amount of time I spend at the machine shop vs. auto parts store. Keep encouraging anyone who has the slightest amount of interest in any car.<p>[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: JOHN MERENESS ]

[ex98thdrill]

I don't know, I wouldn't mind getting into the local chapter (Genesee) but I haven't because I don't feel that I can dedicate the time to it. I work midnights and I get weekends off once every six (6) weeks, I'm in the Army Reserve, I'm also an emergency medical technician as well as one of the Fire Chief's in the local Fire Dept., and I also work on the crash truck at Watkins Glen International. My weekends are mostly dedicated to the shop working on the iron, and the rest of the time I'm pretty busy. In my spare time, I still manage to stay married (god bless her!). Although I do take time to go to some of the shows, I don't have a lot of spare time. My vacation time is usually eaten up going to shows, and working the whole week that the Nascar boys come to visit Watkins Glen. As a matter of fact, I was working the crash truck the day that the AACA founders tour cars took two laps while Dale Jarrett was eating his lunch.<BR> My father on the other hand, we dedicate our weekends in the shop (Friday, Saturday & Sunday), but he is active in the Fire Department as well (that's the only time I can tell him what to do 'cause I'm the Chief), He runs the highway department, which means in the winter time he's out plowing snow, in the summer time, he's rebuilding roads, and once a week he's sitting in board meetings.<BR> You're right, we should be involved in the regional chapters, but we're both extremely busy. Our relaxation is hooking up the trailer to my truck and hauling our old '37 Plymouth pickup to the shows. Hopefully by 2003 show season, we'll have our '40 Plymouth woodie wagon ready to show in AACA.

[Dynaflash8]

First, I wonder why I had to log in today. Almost forgot my password.<P>Anyway, ex, being in a Region club and just doing something a few times a year gets you involved (and might give you someplace to take the Mrs) and you meet more people that way. Remember the old story, about "all work and no play". <BR>I was on the track at Watkins Glen that day, with a silver '66 Chrysler Newport convertible. It's dull, but a good driver.<BR>Anyway, I sure would like to have had a '41 Buick straight 8 with dual carbs that day to see what it could really do, haha

[ex98thdrill]

You're right, you need to take time to play, but for me I've found that when I have the time, I don't have the money and when I have the money, I don't have the time. It just seems like a no win situation. Even though I'm across the big pond, I did manage to get my wife to go with my father to the National Plymouth meet in Maryland last month (he took 2nd place). I'm hoping to con her into going to Hershey. If I get her interested, maybe??? <P>I was going to use the tax free money I'm making to restore my '42 Ford/American LaFrance, but instead I opted to buy a new Harley at cost and add it to the collection. In three more weeks I'll have a brand new Harley (Heritage Softtail) sitting in the shop next to the firetruck, Mustangs and everything else, and where am I? Paying for it! I was really hoping to get a 2003 model (100th anniversary edition) but I had to settle with a 2002 instead. If I get a glimpse of a 2003, I like the bike and I can get one, I'll sell my 2002. Right now our car collection stands as having at least one car in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 70's & 80's. Who knows? maybe we'll get something from the 50's, 60's & 90's (not counting daily drivers) because with the New Harley being added, we'll have a vehicle representing six different decades.

[Dynaflash8]

How about a well-toured 1966 Chrysler Newport convertible? It's a two-owner car with 107K, A/C and five Founder's Tours under its belt. Haha. At my age, I need to cut back, and just bought a 7th old car. Somethin' has to go before too long. Well, you need something in the '70s too, right? Okay, then you can take the '76 Lincoln Continental Town Coupe I just bought and you'll have a car in every decade. With 46K miles, we're again second owners and hoping it'll drive to the Founders Tour in Wisconsin and back. By the way, there's a '42 Ford pumper in a friend's collection near here, in Warsaw, VA ... or maybe it's a '46. I can ask. Keep plugging for us over here you're trying to protect, buddy, we appreciate it.<BR> <p>[ 07-15-2002: Message edited by: Dynaflash8 ]

[ex98thdrill]

'42? '46? Either way it would still be the same body style. If it is an American LaFrance, send me come pictures of it. One area that I really need is that most of the gauges on the pump panel are rusted and I need to replace them. I'm the third owner of my truck and I've got pictures of it back in '71 when it was still in service.<P><BR>As for other cars, we've got the 70's represented, It's only the teens, 50's, 60's & 90's that we don't have. (we've got 90's but they're daily drivers so I'm not counting them). Between my dad and I, we've got about 17? cars and we don't need any more. Right now we've got two cars currently under restoration, 7 unrestored, 5 restored, plus our daily drivers in the collection.

[Dynaflash8]

This truck looks like the old 1942-46 Ford trucks in the front. It was the first fire truck in Richmond County, VA. It's very low mileage, but looks pretty beat. Trust me, it'll still be there when you get back home. The owner lives full time in York,PA, spends weekends at his old shop in Warsaw, VA, and may soon move to Florida. I'll be at the Sentimental Tour from tomorrow thru Sunday, but send me an email at buickman@crosslink.net, and I'll give you his name and email address.

[Guest]

To return to a prior direction, it does make one wonder what the future 'restorers' will actually restore. Cars from the 80s and up are so much more complex in how they are made, the types of materials used, etc. Not a lot of stuff you can make in your basement machine shop.<P>I grew up in the 70s and early 80s, there is virtually nothing from that era I'd like to restore or purchase. Those were dark days in car history. Even the sports cars were rather lame.<P>There will always be people who go for older cars than their own time period. I have an inexplicable attraction to Packards. Never owned one, never rode in one, never knew anyone who had one. Yet, I think there should be one from the 55-57 period in my garage. At 36, I'm not quite financially able, but it's probably not too far off.<P>I also agree that we need to lessen the emphasis on the restored trailer queens. While they are an important part of the AACA, the regular driver/weekend show cars are the bulk of what is out there, and this is the approach we should try to inspire new people through.<P>The hobby is accessible to anyone. You can buy a drivable, interesting old 60s car for $2500. It may be a four door with no real pedigree, but it can get someone started. The problem is, everyone thinks they have to have or feels they must have the Hemi Superbird right off the bat. Folks want instant gratification. I'm a little guilty of it myself, but I've learned that if you work towards a goal, eventually you will probably get there.

[Guest c.johnson]

I'm sure someday a Pinto, Vega, or a Pacer will be a collector car, maybe they already are for someone. <P>One thing I've learned is that old cars are like art. What one person finds apalling, another may find very appealing.<P>What one person finds is to difficult, another may find it as a challenge - even with all the plastic.<P>Maybe in a few years I won't mind seeing a Pinto in a car show, and remembering times I drove one - and wished I had something better!! <P>cj

[ex98thdrill]

Pintos are eligible now, so it's only a matter of someone bringing one in. The problem with them is that a lot of them seemed to have begun to rust before they left the showroom. I'm not knocking Pintos because I have a couple of Mustang II's. Mustang II's were nothing more than a pinto with different bends in the metal. What I enjoy is when someone with one of the older mustangs, calls one of my Mustang II's a pinto and then I'll compliment them on their Falcon. It is a slam against either car, but I do use that to curb someone's arrogance towards an autombile.

[Dave@Moon]

One doesn't have to just mention Pinto, Vegas and Pacers to conjure up images of how dark those days were. There are no American cars from that era, and darn few imported cars, that can in any way be described as well made quality products. I've reiterated stories here in other threads about my experiences with Granadas, LeSabres and Aspens of that era, as could anyone of my age or older. <P>And with the first front wheel drives it only got worse. I've known cars from that time that if I had them today I'd be spending a lot of time in court getting refunds. <P>More significantly, the cars of that era and beyond became increasingly complex and restoration-unfriendly. Even if your 1983 Celebrity was the most attracive and reliable vehicle you've ever owned , just the mechanical aspects of a full, proper restoration to factory correct standards would be dauntingly difficult and expensive. The engine decal kit alone would be 3-10 times that for a '57 Chevy. And God help you if the ECM sources for your car have dried up!<P>When this topic was being breached in the early days of this forum, the prepoderance of opinion ran against this thesis. Most dfers at that time seemed to be adamant that the cars of the '80s will be to the hobby more or less the same that the cars of their youth were. I'm glad to see that opinion shifting.<P>Guys like Robert, and their re-restoration of cars that we leave them, are the hope and future of this hobby. The key is to get young people to see the worth of antique cars through the haze of their memory of the old cars they've already known.