Guest hfbrodie Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 A beauty right? It has been reliable as long as I have had it and usually starts right up. Now for some reason at this point I am unable to get it to start. Between the time it worked and stopped starting I had changed nothing. It had sat for a couple months due to business travel and it being winter. I have tried to troubleshoot it with my limited car knowledge:It has fresh gas, and new spark plugs now. I have checked for loose connections in the distributor wires and did not seem to find any.I have tested and it looks like all 8 cylinders are getting spark. Battery is on a charger when I try to crank it.It seems as if the carburetor is getting good gas flow. The carburetor itself is in pristine new condition and everything moves freely.At this point I am not sure what to do. Obviously the more things I take apart the more things that might contribute to it not working..so I am stopping for now until I get help.Attached is a video showing 50 seconds of me trying to get it to start. Notice at the end in the last 10 seconds it sputters and the carburetor sends up a puff of white smoke. That is the most action I get.If any of you professionals need any additional data, photos or vids please let me know how I can make this easier to troubleshoot.Also I am certainly not too proud to have someone come out and show me how to work on and maintain old cars. If you know of anyone who is a mechanic in the Philadelphia area and has experience with cars from 1945-1970, i would be happy to pay them for their time if they are looking for some side work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Be careful for carb fires with a problem like that. Either a Halon fire ext(halon makes no mess), or even a twin bed sheet to smother the carb, is better than nothing.If it were me, the first thing I would have done is clean/file the points, and make sure the point gap is good. I can see it has some spark they way it acts, but points can cause issues as they get corroded from sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) It doesn't look like the Sisson electric choke works. The choke plate should snap closed upon cranking. A good running 323 eight shouldn't really need one that works during the warmer months though.I don't know if the engine is flooded, but I always pump the gas pedal on my C39 woodie several times before starting if it's been a day or two since it last ran. Look down the carb and open and close the throttle, you should see a good strong stream of gas squirt through the center bore of the carb each time the throttle is fully opened. If the car is stored in a warm dry garage the points are probably OK. But it would be good to check them for .020" gap and no corrosion buildup on them.Let the car sit for a day with a fully charged battery, get in it pump the gas 5or 6 times and crank er up! Should run fine.The Chrysler eights are good runners!PS... I just bought a C49 1950 T&C that won't start after sitting 2 years -Not enough fuel to the carb. Most likely caused by a bad fuel pump flex hose, stuck needle and seat or bad fuel pump. Good luck with yours! Bob Edited July 10, 2013 by c49er (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Hopefully the rings aren't stuck from sitting. How's the compression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hfbrodie Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Thank you all! I will check the wiring on the electronic choke to make sure it is functional. Is there a good way to trip it to test its function besides cranking the car?I will check the points, that is something I have not done yet. It is in a climate controlled garage, so I don't think much could have happened as far as corrosion, but it never hurts to check.I have not checked the compression yet, I don't actually have a tester (I am new at this and still tooling the garage as needed) but I am picking one up this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Change your condensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hfbrodie Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 It doesn't look like the Sisson electric choke works. The choke plate should snap closed upon cranking. A good running 323 eight shouldn't really need one that works during the warmer months though.c49er, Is it possible that this was left un-powered when I purchased the car because it was in the warm months at the time? I think there is only one power wire going to the carb area and it is not touching the electronic choke mechanism.Here are two pics, one shows where the one wire is (is that the kickdown switch?) and the other shows the other side of the setup. I have not removed wires, this is how it was when it ran like a champ. I do think it is odd that the choke and anti-stall? are not powered...but it really did run for months like this. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hfbrodie Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Change your condensor.Thanks Restorer32. What makes you think the condensor is part of the problem? I am not challenging you, I truly have no idea what I am doing and I am trying to learn how to troubleshoot these things. I am pretty sure that this lost and frustrated feeling is how people feel when I try to explain the insides of computers to them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 We have found that condensors can go bad just sitting around, especially old stock ones that aren't sealed as well as modern ones. Many times we have had a car come in with the symptoms you describe. You'll still get spark at the points or even spark at the plug if plug is removed but no spark under compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 If I was there I bet I could have that motor eating out of my hand. As I am not there, a few suggestions.Pour a little gas down the carb. About an egg cup full or 2 or 3 tablespoons. If the engine fires and runs, even for a few seconds you know it is not getting enough gas. I would also put the air filter back on. If you want to look down the carb or add gas, just take the top part off and put it back on before you start the engine. It has a choke effect. The engine will start better with it on and it will act as a spark arrestor if you have a backfire.If the engine starts up, keep it running at a fast idle, 1000 RPM or thereabouts. Let it warm up for 10 minutes before you shut it down. This will burn off excess gas and oil on the plugs and make it easier to start next time.Check the plugs, if they are coated with a black oily substance sandblast them or replace with new ones. Spark plug gap .030.If the ignition is good, and the engine fires up with gas down the carb but keeps stalling out then suspect the carburetor. It may need cleaning because of the junky gas you get these days.Incidentally how old is the gas? Today's gas can go bad in six months to a year. You say the car was idle for a couple of months but how old was the gas? Did you add any stabilizer when you put it in storage?If the gas smells funny STOP. If it smells like varnish it is bad and can gum up your motor severely. You need to drain the tank and clean the carb and fuel system before you start the car.If the gas smells like gas it is ok but may have lost some of its oomph. But if you can get the car going and warmed up, then dilute the old gas with a few gallons of fresh gas in the tank it will be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hfbrodie Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Thanks Restorer32. I will probably replace it, I appreciate you explaining. I went over to the car at lunch and put it up on the battery charger. I also took a quick vid of what the fuel stream inside the carburetor looks like. It looks pretty strong to me. The fuel is from November and I did add stabilizer before the last time I ran it. It smells pretty normal to me. It will be a few days before I can really get in front of it to troubleshoot all of this, but thank you all for the suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Instead of getting too frustrated, why not enjoy the chance to learn some troubleshooting skills. Try and think these thing through. Most of the suggestions that were given here are good and even if they are wrong in this instance, remember them for next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) I have seen the factory Autolite points stick open at times on a couple of my chrysler eights. It's either a distributor points/condensor? issue or it's just plain flooded. Pull a plug too and see if it's wet or black-flooded or running too rich though you said carb was just gone through. You can look down the wide open throttle and see if there is a puddle of excessive fuel at the bottom of the intake manifold. Let it sit a day give it a couple pumps and crank it. If it fires up hold it 1/4 throttle till it clears and smooths out . If you cannot wait just hold the gas pedal down fully and try to start it. Edited July 11, 2013 by c49er (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Sounds like it is just balky from sitting around. Once you get it running it should settle down and purr after a few minutes warm up. If you have any gas mixed with 2 stroke oil put a shot of that down the carb, the oil will help oil up the rings, they get dry when an engine sits too long and you have no compression. This is one of the things making it hard to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hfbrodie Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 We have found that condensors can go bad just sitting around, especially old stock ones that aren't sealed as well as modern ones. Many times we have had a car come in with the symptoms you describe. You'll still get spark at the points or even spark at the plug if plug is removed but no spark under compression.Thanks! Could you point me towards a new one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hfbrodie Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Would this do the trick? 1946 47 48 Chrysler NY 8 Cyl Point Sets Mopar T C 1940 1950 Auto Lite | eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 The way the engine is firing indicates that the ignition is working. If you want to check, you could take out the plugs, connect them to their wires, lay them on the engine and see if they fire. Also examine them to see if they are dirty or soaked in oil and gas. If they are dry and fairly clean they should be ok. If they are soaked they need to be sandblasted or replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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