Put all new brakes on . Just cant get pedal to come up?

[Guest 37 dodge coupe]

So , on my 37, I put new wheel cyls on, new lines, brakes shoes and Master cyl kit; Bleed brakes several times. Just cant get a good pedal feel on first pump. If i pumpit 2-3 times ,feels ok. I bleed these thing several times , and does not seem to help.... Any ideas????

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Hi,

There is a thread in here somewhere with probably the answer your looking for but I can't seem to find it.

Do a search using the word brakes and hopefully it should come up.

Otherwise when you bleed the brakes, start at the furthest distance cylinder and work you way to the closest.

Keep topping up the reservior and keep pumping the pedal. Mine did the same then after a few more pumps the pressure came up.

Cheers

Ian

[hchris]

So , on my 37, I put new wheel cyls on, new lines, brakes shoes and Master cyl kit; Bleed brakes several times. Just cant get a good pedal feel on first pump. If i pumpit 2-3 times ,feels ok. I bleed these thing several times , and does not seem to help.... Any ideas????

A number of things can contribute to your problems, first did you bleed the master on the bench before installing, second, have you set the shoes up concentrically with an appropriate tool; this is absolutley vital as you will never get a good pedal until the shoes are adjusted correctly and then there is the matter of getting the master cylinder push rod adjustment correct.

Not wanting to sound negative here, but as previously mentioned, you will see a lot of grief from previous contributors who have gone about the job adhoc, you really do need the proper references from the workshop manual and work through the tasks in sequential order, otherwise you will be chasing your tail forever.

[Guest DodgeKCL]

With all due respect,and I do not want to start a 'fight', I have never had any problem setting up brakes in my 53 years of working on my own vehicles. I don't even know what bench bleeding a master cylinder means. I obviously have never done it. The only thing I do on new parts is to wet the cylinders,brake and master, with brake fluid before installing them. If you want to troubleshoot your system here's some ideas. Take C clamps with 2 small pieces of wood as a buffer ,and to spread out their 'clamping force' ,and clamp the 2 front brake hoses to the front wheels. This will isolate those brakes. Go to the back brakes and do the same thing with the flex hose that drops down from the frame to the rear brakes. This will isolate those. Now fill the master and play with it. You will of course get a hard pedal immediatley. Right? No? Then your problem is with your master. Yes? Then release one the C clamps and see if the pedal remains hard. Yes? Then release another etc. No? The problem is in the brake cylinder at the end of the that line. But be aware that badly adjusted brake shoes,those have too far to go to touch their respective brake drums, will ultimatley accumulate and cause a large pedal displacement. If you end up with thinking that yes it is brake shoes that are not going out 'fast' enough to touch their drums,remove the drums and put those large clamps they now sell right across the shoes. Or block the movement of the shoes by putting C clamps on the brake backing plates and up against the shoes. DO NOT apply pedal pressure/movement with the drums off and the shoes not blocked. The wheel cylinders with spit out their innards and all their fluid. Doing this troubleshooting will make your troubleshooting more logical instead of 'shotguning' around the system hoping you might stumble on the fault. You'll have a better chance running down the fault.

Edited March 18, 2013 by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

[keiser31]

So , on my 37, I put new wheel cyls on, new lines, brakes shoes and Master cyl kit; Bleed brakes several times. Just cant get a good pedal feel on first pump. If i pumpit 2-3 times ,feels ok. I bleed these thing several times , and does not seem to help.... Any ideas????

Sounds like adjustment is out. Always adjust the shoes prior to bleeding. Otherwise it will be impossible to get a pedal.

[JACK M]

I was having some trouble getting pedal on a recent project and was talking with my nieghbor about it. He came over with a small tank full of brake fluid with a line that ran to a cover that he clamped to the top of the MC and then applied about 12 lbs of pressure over the system via a shrader valve on top of the tank. this put enough pressure to bleed the air that I couldnt get by conventional bleeding but there was not enough pressure to push the shoes..

[ply33]

With all due respect,and I do not want to start a 'fight', I have never had any problem setting up brakes in my 53 years of working on my own vehicles. I don't even know what bench bleeding a master cylinder means. I obviously have never done it. The only thing I do on new parts is to wet the cylinders,brake and master, with brake fluid before installing them...

That matches my experience. At least with the single master cylinders found on that vintage car. Maybe the newer dual masters need to be bench bled but I don't trouble myself working on our new cars.

I was having some trouble getting pedal on a recent project and was talking with my nieghbor about it. He came over with a small tank full of brake fluid with a line that ran to a cover that he clamped to the top of the MC and then applied about 12 lbs of pressure over the system via a shrader valve on top of the tank. this put enough pressure to bleed the air that I couldnt get by conventional bleeding but there was not enough pressure to push the shoes..

I was able to put together a pressure bleeder like that with parts from the local hardware store for about $20. Hmmm. Thinking back on it, I got the Schrader valve from the auto supply across the street from the hardware store, so I guess it wasn't just hardware store stuff.

Anyway, you can bleed the brakes just fine following the old manual using two people. But it is easier, faster and a one person job using the pressure bleeder and the cost is so low to make one that it is well worth while.

[Rusty_OToole]

Chrysler brakes are precision. The major adjustment must be done for them to work right. After they are set up, a minor adjustment every 5000 to 10000 miles to take up wear. The major adjustment requires a special tool but lots of guys make up a tool out of wood and allthread that works fine.

[60ch]

Keiser is correct. If you have bled the brakes and you get no bubbles you are done bleeding. You need to adjust the shoes before you bleed or you will loose pedal height. I just went through this same situation with my 29 DA. Read your manual or owners handbook, adjust the shoes by the book or as close as you can by feel. You will be amazed. I found this information on this site by using the search feature 2 weeks ago. This is a great forum. Terry

[Guest 37 dodge coupe]

Thanks all for the helpful replys, I just joined a couple weeks ago. I Purchased the 37 coupe 2 months ago and am excited to get it road worthy;

[hchris]

With all due respect,and I do not want to start a 'fight', I have never had any problem setting up brakes in my 53 years of working on my own vehicles. I don't even know what bench bleeding a master cylinder means. I obviously have never done it. The only thing I do on new parts is to wet the cylinders,brake and master, with brake fluid before installing them. If you want to troubleshoot your system here's some ideas. Take C clamps with 2 small pieces of wood as a buffer ,and to spread out their 'clamping force' ,and clamp the 2 front brake hoses to the front wheels. This will isolate those brakes. Go to the back brakes and do the same thing with the flex hose that drops down from the frame to the rear brakes. This will isolate those. Now fill the master and play with it. You will of course get a hard pedal immediatley. Right? No? Then your problem is with your master. Yes? Then release one the C clamps and see if the pedal remains hard. Yes? Then release another etc. No? The problem is in the brake cylinder at the end of the that line. But be aware that badly adjusted brake shoes,those have too far to go to touch their respective brake drums, will ultimatley accumulate and cause a large pedal displacement. If you end up with thinking that yes it is brake shoes that are not going out 'fast' enough to touch their drums,remove the drums and put those large clamps they now sell right across the shoes. Or block the movement of the shoes by putting C clamps on the brake backing plates and up against the shoes. DO NOT apply pedal pressure/movement with the drums off and the shoes not blocked. The wheel cylinders with spit out their innards and all their fluid. Doing this troubleshooting will make your troubleshooting more logical instead of 'shotguning' around the system hoping you might stumble on the fault. You'll have a better chance running down the fault.

I think we all agree that getting the shoes adjusted right is of major importance, its easy to assume that the pedal wont come up because of improper bleeding but without the shoes set up right in the first place you are just chasing your tail.

As to bench bleeding the master, I and others on the forum have encountered situations where faulty assembly or kit parts have affected things like the secondary or compensating ports being partially blocked, this leads to all sorts of weird pedal feel/softness issues; I have always found it better to uncover these problems before the master is installed.

In summary if the shoes are correctly set up and the master is bled, then any futher problems are in the lines or wheel cylinders.

[Guest 1930]

I guess we are also assuming you are using the correct master cylinder, the wrong master with the incorrect ( too large ) piston diameter will leave you with a spongy feeling no matter what else you do to the system.

[R.White]

Some British and European cars can be a pain in the butt when it comes to bleeding the brakes. If the system is not designed well in the first place air can ge trapped (painful!) and cause a soft pedal. I don't know much about American cars so I can't really help but it reminded me of when a Land Rover would not play the game. I had the master cylinder on the bench for the second time - convinced it was at fault - and when my wife heared me swearing at the darn thing she piped up "have you tried priming it, dear?"

Of course, that solved the problem!

Ray.

[dodge59]

I have had issues like that when Installing all new parts .. what I have found out is that when you are setting the shoes > have a person inside the car manding the brake pedal another spinning the wheel you are doing the adjusting .......... Spin the wheel you are adjusting , the slam on the brake .. for some reason it sets the shoes properly. taking all excess free play in the hub.. the shoes are not out far enogh to the drums .. wheel cylinders are all the way out .. that's why the pedal goes to the floor. ,,,,,, anyway .. spin . slam them on and adjust . several times . It works .. done it several times..

Try it !

[Guest 37 dodge coupe]

I have had issues like that when Installing all new parts .. what I have found out is that when you are setting the shoes > have a person inside the car manding the brake pedal another spinning the wheel you are doing the adjusting .......... Spin the wheel you are adjusting , the slam on the brake .. for some reason it sets the shoes properly. taking all excess free play in the hub.. the shoes are not out far enogh to the drums .. wheel cylinders are all the way out .. that's why the pedal goes to the floor. ,,,,,, anyway .. spin . slam them on and adjust . several times . It works .. done it several times..

Try it !

What about setting shoes all the way out to where drums lock and then bleed. After bleeding is done , set shoes to proper clearence?

[Guest 37 dodge coupe]

With all due respect,and I do not want to start a 'fight', I have never had any problem setting up brakes in my 53 years of working on my own vehicles. I don't even know what bench bleeding a master cylinder means. I obviously have never done it. The only thing I do on new parts is to wet the cylinders,brake and master, with brake fluid before installing them. If you want to troubleshoot your system here's some ideas. Take C clamps with 2 small pieces of wood as a buffer ,and to spread out their 'clamping force' ,and clamp the 2 front brake hoses to the front wheels. This will isolate those brakes. Go to the back brakes and do the same thing with the flex hose that drops down from the frame to the rear brakes. This will isolate those. Now fill the master and play with it. You will of course get a hard pedal immediatley. Right? No? Then your problem is with your master. Yes? Then release one the C clamps and see if the pedal remains hard. Yes? Then release another etc. No? The problem is in the brake cylinder at the end of the that line. But be aware that badly adjusted brake shoes,those have too far to go to touch their respective brake drums, will ultimatley accumulate and cause a large pedal displacement. If you end up with thinking that yes it is brake shoes that are not going out 'fast' enough to touch their drums,remove the drums and put those large clamps they now sell right across the shoes. Or block the movement of the shoes by putting C clamps on the brake backing plates and up against the shoes. DO NOT apply pedal pressure/movement with the drums off and the shoes not blocked. The wheel cylinders with spit out their innards and all their fluid. Doing this troubleshooting will make your troubleshooting more logical instead of 'shotguning' around the system hoping you might stumble on the fault. You'll have a better chance running down the fault.

Great advice, isolated to the frt wheel cylinders; LF was leaking. Thanks all. !!!!!