Cast iron carb - repair possible ?

[Guest 61xlch]

Hello folks

after longer search I found an original Shebler TX carb for my 1931 Auburn. After a hard and timeconsuming disassembly I found a painful damage:

Anybody any suggestions for a repair?

Thanks

Andreas

Berlin/ Germany

[37_Roadmaster_C]

Andreas,

I am in the USA but my approach would be to talk to a machinist about the possibility of brazing or sliver soldering the broken casting back togeather, then boring out the chamber and sleaving with either brass or stainless steel. I don't know if this is possible but a talk with a good machinist would be my first thought. Keep us posted.

Robin

[Ivan Saxton]

After some thought, I think this could be repaired, but it would be fairly technical. You would need to remove all of the ferric oxide absolutely, so you could get a metalurgical bond with the base material. Cast iron is to some extent porous, and possibly trace of lead from fuel may cause trouble at red heat or above, quite apart from inhaling fumes of the stuff. That accelerator pump well is the worst problem. You could probably build it up carefully over a ground ceramic plug, possibly using a fitted piece of machined material. My preferred brazing rod would be nickel-bronze. Actually, the fit of accelerater pump plunger to well is not always very close. I have made a dozen or more complete replica Zenith dual throat carbs for Stutz and Lancia Dilambda, and I made the fit too good. The plunger would lift and spill fuel out the top. Holes drilled in the top disc of the plunger overcame the problem. I can assure you that there is a dreadful lot of "knife and fork" work in making a complete carby from scratch.

You have not yet placed this problem in the Auburn Cord Duesenberg section much lower in this forum. There is also an ACD Club forum, but I do not know how active it is. Unfortunately you have just missed the opportunity for this year to jump on a plane and take your rusty Carb to Auburn as hand luggage. I have been a member of the ACD Club since I was a university student, nearly 50 years. I comment membership to you. I have been to the Auburn reunion only twice, but it was the most enjoyable antique car event I have ever attended. Taking your rusty carby there is probably the best way to locate a good one.

[DavidAU]

I'm not an expert but if it is the broken accelerator chamber you are talking about I would agree with 37 Roadmaster in that you should take it to a machine shop for their advice.

Just looking at the photos, I would think however that it may be possible to repair it without trying to weld it back together which would probably destroy the carb. In fact I'm sure you would not get any welder to guarantee that they wont damage it if they tried.

As there appears to be about 70% of the circumference of the chamber left it may be possible to be able to skim it out and install a thin wall sleeve with possibly a small reinforcing collar on the top. The bottom looks OK as there is still a full chamber left to push the sleeve into.

Even if you have to make the inside diameter fractionally smaller than it is now I am sure this would not be detrimental to its performance.

This sleeve would be strong enough and self supporting and therefore would not require the broken outer piece to welded back in.

Just my $0.02

[Guest 61xlch]

Thanks for your input. You gave me back some hope.

I will check out all suggestions.

Any experiences with "Silver Sold " from Muggy Weld?

@Ivan Saxton: Yes, I did post it in the ACD-Club-Forum too. But responses are pretty rare over there. I am a Club member since years, but couldnt get much help in different problems. Besides my Auburn I own a 1923 Duesy Model A roadster too.

[Johan Boltendal]

I agree with David, leave the welding out, the risk is too high and there is no need for it either, follow Davids route with a fine machinist and it will come out

working as it should.

Best of it, you still have your carburetor body, not melted down or exploded to pieces. Johan

[Restorer32]

Bore and sleeve. Not a big deal though it would take several hours of a machinists usually expensive time. We might epoxy the broken piece in place just to keep the boring tool from chattering as we bored for a bronze sleeve. We have successfully done similar repairs in the past. Any machinist with a lathe and a milling machine can handle it.

[Friartuck]

My initial suggestion as others have said:

1. make up a round core out of either corian or ceramic based material and build up the broken area using a welding rod made for cast iron (Arc or Tig). Muggyweld (www.muggyweld.com) has such rods available. I'd be concerned about welding in such a small space. Sleeve the inside using brass, even if it means the diameter is slightly smaller.

2. The same concept as above, You could investigate using some of the polymers/epoxies from Devcon. The Titanium Putty (http://www.devcon.com/prodfiles/pdfs/fam_tds_124.pdf) is rated for gasoline applications, though I'd be concerned as its constantly immersed in gas as to how it would hold up. Its worth looking into. If you go this route, apply thin oil or cover the round cylinder with wax paper to remove it.

Let us know how it turns out

[Restorer32]

Should be no reason for a sleeve to end up smaller. Bore and insert an undersized sleeve then bore the sleeve to the proper diameter after it's it place.

[Guest 61xlch]

I did ask a professional vintage carb dealer (carbking) for parts or complete carbs. See what he knows about Shebler carbs:

"We will NOT for ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY rebuild a Schebler carburetor. A really good investment for any vehicle using a Schebler carburetor is an automatic onboard Halide fire estinguishing system. These are best left to the enthusiasts building numbers matching show cars that will never be started, or museum cars that will never be started. Regards."

Any experiences like this...?

[Friartuck]

carbking's response is rather strong to say the least.

1. What carb solutions have other Auburn owners used? Suggest contacting Richie Fass at Stone Barn index Rich has Auburns.

2. Are there any suitable updraft substitutes such as Stromberg, etc?

3. What other makes/Marques used Schleber and inquire from them on reliablity.

[impala]

If you have no other option but to use the carb I would just find an epoxy compatible with gasoline. Build it up thick on the outside and when the epoxy fully sets sand any excess from the inside of the bore. You could also lightly run a small wheel cylinder hone in the bore. There's little pressure in there so I'm sure the epoxy would hold up.

impala

[carbking]

carbking's response is rather strong to say the least.

1. What carb solutions have other Auburn owners used? Suggest contacting Richie Fass at Stone Barn index Rich has Auburns.

2. Are there any suitable updraft substitutes such as Stromberg, etc?

3. What other makes/Marques used Schleber and inquire from them on reliablity.

I will help with your research:

(2)

Stromberg offered a cast iron SF-3 and SFM-3 (be certain to get the universal model, not the stationary engine model).

Carter offered the type BB-1. Applicable models would be the 289s (cast iron) which was superceded by the 289sd (cast top/zinc bottom)

Zenith offered the type 63AW12 and 263M2E12 carbs (like the Stromberg, get the universal model).

(3)

Some models of the following makes all used the Schebler type T carb from 1930~1932:

Auburn

Chrysler

Erskine

Graham

Marmon

Peerless

Reo

Good luck.

Jon.

[Guest 61xlch]

My car is running with a Carter BB-1 carb, and it runs really well. But the car is unrestored and its my intention to bring the car back to its original configuration.

I dont know a reason why it should not run with its original carb. As far as I know the Auburns were known for their reliabilty in these days.

The updraft carb is located below the exhaust manifold, why it should come to fire?

I am absolutely not experienced with these vintage carb issues, I appreciate all experiences and knowledge.

Thanks

[Guest miss68xr7]

Hit me on the head if I am wrong, But hillbilly I am would consider jbweld, not the fast curing stuff. I think the biggest problem will be the missing 3/8" chunk at the top, try and get your money back and go for another, imhop If not that makes the bore and sleeve more viable, but boring cast is it possible?

Edited September 3, 2012 by miss68xr7 (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Bore, sleeve, make a new piston to fit................Bob