chistech Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 (edited) That’s what it sounds like to me. Got to get those fixed. If you can get a vac gauge, hook it up to the wiper vac port in the intake and check again by spraying those two spots. The gauge should show a definitive reaction. I also believe you should have at least 15” vacuum at idle and around 17 at 1000 rpms. Edited September 14, 2020 by chistech (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 Ted... got one of those, did that test as well, was getting 15Hg at idle did NOT do the gauge during the test, but will do that tomorrow and see what I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Was the motor cold or hot? Curious if the mani is getting hot and then leaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 this was with it warmed up, but does it cold as well will do a cold test when i get home today and see what happens with the vacuum gauge attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 15, 2020 Author Share Posted September 15, 2020 well decided to pull the manifold assembly and dig into that, luckily i had bought a complete engine rebuild kit for my 1929 and it is still in the engine shop so have the gasket kit on the bench, and it is for 1929-32 so had the manifold to manifold gasket for the 1930 as it is not the same as the 1929. also borrowed the manifold assembly to engine gasket set, will have to get another set to replace this one for the 1929 engine. remove carburetor, pulled it off, dropped the down pipe on the exhaust pipe, then unbolted manifold assembly from engine. easy process, guess i have done it a few times on the 1929, same procedure. took it over to the bench to take a look. the gasket was hard and brittle in a few places. used a scraper/blade to remove it off the manifold and the engine block area. unbolted intake from exhaust, and it easily came apart. flipped over intake to looked at the carb mounting surface. seems there is still part of an old gasket on the face, hopefully that explains that leak. so used my scraper/blade and removed the gasket area and made sure it was back to clean bare metal. also validate that it was FLAT. then cleaned up the intake to engine surfaces, they were pretty clean. then on to the exhaust side, made sure it was back to clean bare metal. when looking at the mating surface between the two surfaces seems to be a lot of rust in that area. and the gasket was hard and brittle. actually remembered to take a few pictures of the before. intake side, can clearly see the areas of rust exhaust side, gasket still installed gasket came of way to easy, a little rust underneath it as well and the base are of the studs had some surface rust. same routine, scraper/blade cleanup and made sure it was back to clean bare metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 15, 2020 Author Share Posted September 15, 2020 spent some time and made sure everything was FLAT and cleaned up really nice. going to put it all back together with NEW gaskets and see what happens. in reassembly should i put any spray copper on the gaskets bt the manifolds ?? between manifolds and the block ?? if i remember correctly they all go back together DRY. snug up the bolts, then after a few heat cycles go back and snug them up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) Do not tighten the two manifolds together on the bench. Put the bolts in just snug and mount the manifold to the engine without gaskets. Tighten the manifold to engine bolts lightly and check for any gaps. Make sure the three bolts connecting the two manifolds together are loose enough to allow for movement. If all looks good, tighten manifold to engine a little tighter, then tighten the three bolts holding the manifolds together. Re move the assembly and reinstall with manifold gaskets. I usually have the manifold planed after having them apart. Edited September 15, 2020 by chistech (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 15, 2020 Author Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 hour ago, chistech said: Do not tighten the two manifolds together on the bench. Put the bolts in just snug and mount the manifold to the engine without gaskets. Tighten the manifold to engine bolts lightly and check for any gaps. Make sure the three bolts connecting the two manifolds together are loose enough to allow for movement. If all looks good, tighten manifold to engine a little tighter, then tighten the three bolts holding the manifolds together. Re move the assembly and reinstall with manifold gaskets. I usually have the manifold planed after having them apart. exactly... that is how i install these 2-piece manifolds !! thanks for the confirmation, make sure i was not the only crazy one learned that the first time i did this on the 1929. built it on the bench then had to loosen it up and replace the gasket to be safe. learn and live on the 1929 i am having all mating/machined surfaces machined flat on the block & manifolds... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 put the engine back together, new gaskets on cleaned surfaces. took my time and got it together. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 put in the battery, and after a cycle or 2 fired up idles smooth, not issues. if you try to accelerate hard, then it either gasps for air (at least that is what it sounds like) or it stutters down then catches up with coughing (backfire through the carb) if you accelerate slowly then it seems to be ok both of these scenarios are idling, not under load or driving. with the remnants of Sally dumping rain everywhere, have not taken it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 It looks like it has a little air filter on it. I would try running it with it off to see if it's restricting air flow under heavy acceleration. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 tried with and with out, air filter it is an open can, no filter no element Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 This 35’ engine I put back in the pickup frame was doing the same thing. Rechecked timing and adjusted it about 11-12 degrees advanced at idle, 2 degrees above the normal ten. Also, the 35’ has a vacuum advance and this one wasn’t working right, the plate was bound up. Check your distributor and the weights below the point plate. Make sure they are free to swing out properly. When accelerating, try covering the mouth of the carb some and see if the sputtering goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) well tinkered with the engine this weekend... swapped out coil for a NEW coil on my shelf (SPARE), same issue, not a change. so swapped coils back out. pulled cap off distributor and looked inside to make sure everything was there and looked good, validated that the springs for the mechanical timing advance were free and NOT stuck or binding. all was free and clear. decided that i was going to try and play with the spark gap and timing. see if i could find a sweet spot to make the engine happy at all RPMs pulled the plugs and plug 5 was covered in oil, and plug 6 was black (soot). did some research as tp why and then gapped everyone to .035" and reinstalled, then fired up, not a glitch, adjusted timing to get it happy, really sounded off, like one cylinder was NOT firing. you could feel & hear it. i tinkered with it and then decided to pull the plugs and go the other way, lets try .045" and see what happens... pulled plugs and 5 was covered in oil and you could smell gas pretty good. also noticed a few were hotter then the others. took a few moments and thought it through. went to install the plugs back in the engine, and stopped and said lets go over this step by step. lets check wires & then validate firing order on cap. wires were all good and solid, i had resoldered the ends and cleaned them all up before. then on to firing order... 1-5-3-6-2-4 plug one on the distributor is about 5 o'clock position inline with the screw on the side. next would be 5, but wait, was going to six, then 3 then 5 then 4 then 2. started laughing at myself and kicking myself. reordered the wires in correct order, dyslexia got me good, had paper in hand looked at order and still put mixed up 3 of them. this had to be when i swapped caps out because the one was corroded. regapped plugs to .040" and cleaned them all up. dropped them back in. turned key and hit started, started up and then adjusted timing via sound and feel. then validated with timing light, around 15 deg. adjusted idle down a bit settled around 500 rpm. and seemed to be happy. hit the throttle arm to accelerate and vrooom did not glitch, stumble, or think just revved up !! man was i happy !! let it idle a bit, then revved a few more times, not a glitch... closed up hood and took it for a ride around the block. so much smoother and more power. 1-5-3-6-2-4 Edited September 22, 2020 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 need to tweak the timing and tuning a bit, along with idle to get it smooth i wanted to cry and kick myself so hard, but could do nothing but laugh at myself. live and learn, and check your check 😛 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 23, 2020 Author Share Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) figured i would do some other checking on the 1930 , still need to tweak the tuning generator output, used my meter to check generator output to battery, per the specs generator spinning at around 1700 rpm (850 engine rpm) should put out around 16A - 8V, with the meter on was getting zero nil nothing from the generator output side, and reading 6.5V from the battery side (which is what i get with meter on battery). so decided to polarize generator first, just to be safe. turned off, polarized, then fired engine back up to recheck and still nothing. next up was to pull the cover band off and see where the third brush was sitting. and when i removed the cover, what do i see ??masking tape, old crusty masking tape, looks like whomever painted it masked it off and never remove it when done. removed masking tape and noticed one of the brush wire insulation was worn off to bare wire and touching the third brush. so pulled off wire put on a layer of heat shrink and reinstalled. also noticed that the third brush would not move as well as springs was not holding it down against armature. yes, screw was loosened first worked the brush a little but and finally began to move, spring also was fine, but but stuck, so now all moves and spring holds brush against the armature. area of worn insulation insulation fixed Edited September 23, 2020 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 23, 2020 Author Share Posted September 23, 2020 put it all back together and set the third brush to 4 bars away from brush. all back together before adjustments rear brush 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 23, 2020 Author Share Posted September 23, 2020 did a test run and still nothing on the generator output. adjust brush closer as that is supposed to increase output, still nothing, moved further away and still nothing not getting a single volt or amp coming out ?!? so anything else i can do, or time to pull and have it rebuilt ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 I'm having similar problems on my 34, check the cutout. Connect a jumper wire from the GEN terminal to the BATT terminal and start, if it charges your cutout is not working. BE SURE to remove the jumper wire after you try this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted September 23, 2020 Author Share Posted September 23, 2020 i was connecting the meter to the gen connection and then ground, that should tell me if anything is coming out of the generator ?!? the bat side goes from gen cut out to bat, which reads 6.2 v which is what the battery has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) One side will read battery voltage (measured to ground). That is normal. The other side should make some voltage when the generator spins up (measured to ground). If it won't, the generator isn't working. When the generator makes a enough voltage, the cutout should snap down and connect the two together. A fast idle or a little more should do it no matter what. If the generator will make some voltage revved up, but the cutout is not kicking in, look for trouble with the cutout. Once the two are connected, then the voltage will rise to something above battery voltage (on both sides as they are connected together now). If the cutout snaps down, but the system still doesn't charge, the cutout points are probably dirty. P.S. 16 amps sounds like a lot. I seem to remember one or two of the VCCA experts say the numbers in the book are absolute maximum, for bench testing, looking for trouble, and that generator will melt and throw solder if you attempt to run it on the car for any length of time set that high. Even if the generator could sustain it, 16 amps sounds way too high for a car with no voltage regulator and only a cutout. Nothing to worry about until you get it charging though. P.P.S. If I had it apart I would probably shine that commutator up with some crocus cloth. I expect it will work as is though. Make sure your brushes move freely and are held under a little spring tension against the commutator. Edited September 24, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 I believe 8 amps is max recommended. Not sure if you can even get 16 but maybe. My Chevy is just under 8 before the Peterson regulator I installed and my Olds is about 8.3 which is the lowest setting I can get it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 well dropped the generator off at the local battery/starter shop. they rebuild starters and generators and have the equipment. said they will take a look and advise did some research and found out that most of the parts are readily available all day at a reasonable price. i.e. armatures are available all day for under $50, field coils are available, brushes, springs, etc... seems only components hard to come by are the case, end cap, and pulley !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 did some research on the temperature gauge unit. seems that it is a sealed unit, ether i believe. seems there are no replacement units available out there, and NOS or NORS are hard to find and come by. so started researching options to have mine repaired/rebuilt. lots of recommendations for 'The Temperature Gauge Guy' Roy up in Vermont, so gave him a call and left a message. also did some searching while waiting for Roy to call back and found a few other places that claim to do the repair/ rebuilds. called a few of them and all of them knew what i was talking about, and seemed to understand what to do, how to test, repair, calibrate, etc. a few of them even do restorations on the gauge themselves, background, numbers, needles, etc... was good to find out there are people out there that still do this. all of them were in the same price range for basic service, but could vary if they had to replace the bulb and tube. ether solder carefully was the key words. then Roy called me back and said he can take care of the unit for me as well, he is knowledgeable about them. once he receives it he will test and evaluate it, then let me know what he has to do to fix it and get it working correctly again. will be a few weeks turnaround time, but that seems to be the norm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 thought i would post a few pictures of the gauge assembly when i removed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 few picts of the test i ran, boiled some water in a small bowl, and then dropped in my thermometer to see what the temperature was, and then dropped in the bulb from the temperature unit. the temperature unit did not budge or move. water was at 200F so figured it would at least get to alcohol boils since that is around 170-180F 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Might be an issue with that one. Last time I poured 200 degree water on my hand, "cold" was not the thought running through my mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 9, 2020 Author Share Posted October 9, 2020 Temperature Gauge is on its way to Roy in VT. actually was delivered Thursday figure a few weeks and it should be back to me, hopefully by the end of the month ! October that is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 got my temperature gauge back today from Roy M going to do a control test to see what temperatures are where on the gauge for my reference. he put on a a new capsule & tubing. in case anyone is interested or needs some work done, here is his card & information, he only does mechanical temperature gauges, NO electronic of any type. Roy Martin The Temperature Gauge Guy (802) 862-6374 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 well did a control test with water and a thermometer so i know where the engine should be running and staying. if it gets near HOT they we are at 200F !! considering these engines run bt 140-160 it looks like the gauge should be around alcohol boils or straight up. granted alcohol boils is around 171F. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Looks accurate to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, chistech said: Looks accurate to me. thanks, main thing was i know when the gauge is at a certain location what the general temperature of the coolant is for reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 few shots of the temperature gauge assembly for the 1930 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 also got another gift today got the generator from the rebuilder. said the armature was fried, so replaced it with a new and also cleaned up the inside. also put on an aftermarket cut out, but still have the original one as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 shot a short video of the sparks... should i put on new brushes, or will the sparks go away once the brushes seat ?? or ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930 Kram66 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 It is normal to see a SMALL amount of arcing at the brushes.... That said it looks like your brushes are not happy. In the olden days -1970s when generators were still common , while bench testing them we would use a çom-stick to help bed the brushes in to the newly machined and undercut commutator. It was a slightly abrasive material, it looked like a stick of chalk. I have not seen it around for at least 30 years. While the generator was spinning you would apply it to the commutator and you immediately noticed a huge reduction in arcing at the brushes. At a pinch chalk would probably work, could be worth a try just to see if that helps . From your photo of the brushes in the rebuilt generator the edge of the brush were it contacts the commutator looks pretty rough - Maybe new brushes should have been fitted anyway I would check with the rebuilder about that. Cheers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 On 10/24/2020 at 5:49 PM, 1930 Kram66 said: It is normal to see a SMALL amount of arcing at the brushes.... That said it looks like your brushes are not happy. In the olden days -1970s when generators were still common , while bench testing them we would use a çom-stick to help bed the brushes in to the newly machined and undercut commutator. It was a slightly abrasive material, it looked like a stick of chalk. I have not seen it around for at least 30 years. While the generator was spinning you would apply it to the commutator and you immediately noticed a huge reduction in arcing at the brushes. At a pinch chalk would probably work, could be worth a try just to see if that helps . From your photo of the brushes in the rebuilt generator the edge of the brush were it contacts the commutator looks pretty rough - Maybe new brushes should have been fitted anyway I would check with the rebuilder about that. Cheers thanks for the insight, google for brush seater and found the stick various sizes available seem most are made by Diamond D Zoro Tools: Brush Seater/Commutator Cleaner ordered a smaller one 1/2" X 1/4" x 4-3/4" should work just fine, and can be used on the generator & starter when needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 also went through my spare parts list i made up, and seen that i have a spare set of Brushes for the generator, so will be swapping them out and putting in the New set, then seating them using the stone when it arrives in the next day or two. also drained the coolant completely out then flushed the system with distilled water. going to put in a bottle of the Evaporust Thermocure to see if that will clean out the gunk in the system. figure it is either scale and/or calcium. figure i will run it for the winter, and swap it out in the spring. i know that it does NOT protect from freezing, but both the vehicles live in a climate controlled garage, and stay a comfy 55-60F all winter. I plan to take it out for drives on nice days when the weather is nice (dry and comfortable) as it does NOT have heat or air (other then 3-40ish). so must be comfortable for me the Thermocure is supposed to help clean up calcium and Scale. so i will see what it does, i will take some before and after to compare. radiator & water neck area. i plan to use the Gano filter to catch any debris before the radiator. this is the SAME setup i used on my 1929 when it was overheating. cool little contraption. will use hte Gano for both phases, then remove it when i go back to straight Antifreeze. few pictures of the Gano setup from when it was on my 1929: 1929 Gano Filter Assembly Setup 1929 Gano Filter Close Up 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 28, 2020 Author Share Posted October 28, 2020 removing the return radiator hose on the 1930 so i can install the gano filter and start the Thermocure cleaning process. when i removed the hose there is a brass piece in the top of the hose right before the radiator connection, it is stuffed in the hose. looks like a small brass round cap with 4 holes drilled in it. assume this is a restrictor/orifice plate of sorts used to create pressure in the system before it goes back into the radiator ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 28, 2020 Author Share Posted October 28, 2020 took some before pictures of the cooling system before doing the Thermocure process. looking down inside radiator fill looking inside the head, where water neck goes few of looking inside the head, where water neck goes looking up the water neck into the hose to the radiator, you can see the brass part noted above with the holes in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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