Reproduction Parts: The Wish List

[Guest groingo]

(I have copied this post and moved replays from another thread that went OT. Felt this deserved its own thread)

Rawja

Small world, never could figure what the login problem was but what they hey.

Just got my Reatta a couple days ago, I am the seventh owner, (Poor car was an abused child) but I saw something interesting in it (it's a 90 with sun roof and 16 way power seat in of course that very rare of colors.....red)!

Everything works, gets a new Flowmaster Crapalytic Converter Monday which should help its somewhat dismal performance plus I too had the clunking sound in the front like Recian which was the Shock bearing which was trashed and binding....oddly enough my lower ball joints and tie rod ends had grease fittings while the control arm bushings squeaked like a well used hooker....that too has been resolved.

I am also looking into making some reproduction headlight buckets and possible front fenders.....still waiting for reply from Canada on those but 3D printers are an amazing tool we can use to keep Reatta's alive and well and maybe even better!

Edited January 15, 2012 by Rawja (see edit history)

[NCReatta]

Welcome to the forum!!

MHO, fenders are in bigger demand than headlight buckets. Most of the requests I get for headlight buckets are either from insurance companies, or from people in the rust belt.

Buckets in the rust belt tend to rust to the point where you can no longer align the headlights.

And naturally, insurance companies are calling about ones that have just been damaged by a deer, other car, tree, etc.

I have probably a dozen sets of headlight buckets on my shelf ready to ship out.

While the headlight buckets are a good idea, fenders would get your investment back sooner. I've seen lots of fenders on perfectly good cars that are cracked in various places. These cars have never been wrecked, it's just age and wear.

If you did do something with the headlights, I would go for the headlight bucket covers. Those often get dented, and chipped to the point where it's difficult to easily repair them.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

We should make a list of reproduction or aftermarket parts that are urgently needed for the Reatta. That way anyone who is in the reproduction part business or desires to get into that business would know what is needed and where to start.

A few items that would be on my list are starting to get harder to find have never been available:

1. Convertible top weatherstripping
   
2. 88/89 style door pull strap plastic end caps and retainers
   
3. Weather stripping for doors, windows and trunk
   
4. Pigtail to connect iPod jack to the radio
   
5. Reproduction 1990 headlight switch or rebuild kit
   
6. 110 volt inverters for the dash light and console OR a pigtail to adapt to new style inverter that is readily available
   
7. Reprogrammed computer chips, that are kept in stock and readily available for sale/exchange, to make the fans come on sooner
   
8. Plug & Play headlight control kit with a harness and relay that would take the load off the headlight switch
   
9. 88 glove box shocks
   
10. Latch "catch" for the 88 style glove box
    
11. 88/89 style gear shift indicator
    
12. Reproduction metal or fiberglass sunroof panels
    
13. Reproduction plastic control box for 16 way seats
    
14. Red Reflectors on the Tail Lens
    
15. Replacement tail light letters - (Steve has these on the way)
    

If we could get up a more complete list it should be posted as a sticky here and on my website so anyone wanting to take on a project could see at a glance what is needed. I'm sure that people visit these sites all the time that have the capability of developing aftermarket parts for Reattas but just don't know what is needed. Lets help them help us.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[KDirk]

I would add a few things to the list:

1. 88/89 style door pull strap plastic end caps and retainers. While used ones can still be found pretty easily, they are all old and getting brittle from age/heat. Thus, the possibility of used replacements breaking is on the increase. I'm hoping maybe Kinglsey will consider doing these at some point given his prior experience in injection molded plastic parts (i.e. the convertible visor clips he had made).

2. Ronnie mentioned the control box for the 16 way seats. I would add the trim escutcheon (metal plate with the switch cutouts and labels for each of the three functions) as these seem frequently damaged by scuffing from the metal seat belt end. I know the one on my 88 is.

3. This is a long shot due to probable low demand, but a replacement latch "catch" for the 88 style glove box would be nice. This is another plastic part that is going to have greater rate of failure going forward due to age.

4. 88/89 style gear shift indicator. The EL backlight in this part goes bad, rendering indication of position (in the dark) inoperative. While I have been trying to put together a replacement EL it will never be a high-volume item due to requiring a bulk EL sheet to be precisely cut in many intricate shapes and attached to the circuit board. The original EL strip was "printed" as one piece in such a way the the ring around the gear name would light when each gear was selected. This requires 7 different circuits in effect, plus an eighth one that lights up the all gear names together.

Either a new custom made EL overlay (and perhaps the indicator overlay with white text on black background) could be made, or the whole design could be scrapped and a new design using LED's that would mimic the color and "moving light ring" might be looked at. In the latter case, the console harness would need modification to run 12VDC rather than inverter power to the shift indicator connection.

Along the same lines as the gear position indicator, I have been working ob refurbishing 88/89 mirror and window switches. Progress is slow as the EL and decals have to be precisely hand cut and applied to the switch bodies. My prototype effort is decent enough though the decal is black, not brushed charcoal grey as the originals were. I have sourced color matching EL sheet but again, these have to be hand cut and then laminated before installing on the switch.

Bottom line, these will not be a high volume item either when I am ready to offer them for sale. I have a limited number of cores that I am going to rebuild of both the mirror and window switch, and further availability would be dependent on receiving additional usable cores to refurbish. I suppose the market for these would be limited mostly to the most particular Reatta owners who want switches that look fresh and clean, without the bad backlighting and peeling, dirty looking decals.

I am not yet ready to offer these for sale, as I intend to put a set in my car this coming spring and summer to study the effects of heat and sun exposure on the new decal. If it holds up well, then I will be ready to go sometime this coming fall. If they don't then I will need to re-evaluate how to go about this.

On the ECM chips mentioned by Ronnie, these are just EPROMS. I have an EPROM programmer with which I could burn ECM PROMS (or just about any other programmable chip in one of the cars modules) but I would need an "image" of each chip first. I already have the 1988 ANCX (final corrected version) ECM PROM both with standard and lower-temp fan (courtesy of Padgett), the 1988/89 AJXT CRTC PROMS, and the 88 BCM PROM copied from the original chips to a ROM image that could be programmed into as many chips as needed.

I don't see many posts on here about the need for replacement PROMS, but would gladly make them if asked for reasonable cost (time and cost of new PROM chip+shipping), and if I already had the proper image available. For those chips I don't already have copied, I would need a donor module of the correct year and type so this means an ECM and BCM for each year 88-91 at a minimum.

Keep in mind that changing the ECM PROM is tricky as it is inside a MEM-CAL carrier module. This chip is very difficult to remove and replace without damaging the contacts in the carrier, so it is not something for the inexperienced and impatient to try. It is also a UVEPROM. I do not reprogram these 20+ old chips due to increasing instances of the chip not holding the programmed data reliably. Instead I program a fresh EEPROM to replace the old one.

If anyone wants a MEM-CAL fitted with a new or modified PROM, I may be willing to do the modification but this would be on a case by case basis, so I would ask anyone wanting to do this to PM me. There are, of course, tuner shops who offer this service as well FWIW.

KDirk

[wws944]

Add: Rubber seals for the doors, trunk lid, 5th bow, etc.

Plug & Play headlight control kit with a harness and relay that would take the load off the headlight switch.

Headlight harnesses are available off-the shelf (from Painless, and others). Only hard part is the need for splicing right angle connectors on the ends. I will be doing this one of these days, and will report on it when I do.

[NCReatta]

I've been looking into having the glove box shocks for the '88 glove boxes remade. Still in the infancy stances though.

[Guest groingo]

It all boils down to demand, cost to produce and cost recovery plus I am always interested in improving a part to increase overall performance such as a composite light weight hood, deck lid and such as well as re-engineering new parts for easier installation and maintenance....but first we take things one step at a time due to the expected low volume we would seek to work with companies already in the reproduction business like Year One etc.

Would be nice to make this item a sticky here.

Edited January 15, 2012 by groingo (see edit history)

[meehan]

I think the Red Reflectors on the Tail Lens should be easy to reproduce if we could find

a company that makes Reflectors, afer all, it is just moulded plastic on Refective material.

[Ronnie]

1. 88/89 style door pull strap plastic end caps and retainers. While used ones can still be found pretty easily, they are all old and getting brittle from age/heat. Thus, the possibility of used replacements breaking is on the increase. I'm hoping maybe Kinglsey will consider doing these at some point given his prior experience in injection molded plastic parts (i.e. the convertible visor clips he had made).

I thought Jim Finn still had these available new and below is what I have on my website. Are they no longer available?

The parts are still available at the Chevrolet dealer and can be purchsed seperatly.

Escutcheon - (The outer cap) - Part Number: 20587948

Retainer - (The part the cap snaps into) - Part Number: 20588020.

[handmedownreatta]

We should make a list of reproduction or aftermarket parts that are urgently needed for the Reatta. That way anyone who is in the reproduction part business or desires to get into that business would know what is needed and where to start.

1. Pigtail to connect iPod jack to the radio.
   

.

this would be pretty easy to make a jack to plug into the aux jack on the radio module so the tape player would still be usable.

[padgett]

Lot of people would like an iPlod connection, particularly one that would autoswitch to its input. Could probably use the telephone (Riviera) option wiring.

Have been thinking abour a low ZIF socket for the MemCal so you could use anything. For me, UVProms are fine since I usually reprogram once.

If you need some .bins, I think I have every year (at least fed) and usually the updated ones.

[KDirk]

Ronnie,

Not sure if Jim has new ones or not (door pull strap caps/retainers that is) but my last visit to the dealer showed no availability anywhere (a few months ago). I did have Jim send me some caps with an order of other miscellanea at that time, and the caps were good used ones. Don't recall if he gave me the option of new or used, but that is what I know on the status of new ones from GM.

Padgett,

On the MEM-CAL, I soldered in a standard machined 28 pin DIP socket and then installed a newly burned EEPROM into that. The blue carrier cover still fits over it (barely) but I suspect there is no ZIF socket available that would fit without the blue cover being left off. They are also too bulky at the ends such that a ZIF socket would probably interfere with the "backup logic" that is installed next to the PROM chip.

As far as the PROMS themself, can you still find NOS 27C256 UVEPROMS? I found one source and they were 250 nS, a bit slowish on the access time. Most everything else was pulls, and I will not use second hand junk when it comes to PROMS. I ended up getting a "tube" of 25 28C256 EEPROMS, they were a bit more expensive but were current (or nearly so) production parts. I have only used a couple, but will probably order some more soon as these too were marked as "end of life" at Allied, Mouser and Newark.

Anyway, if you have all the images, that is good. At least someone has a repository of these .bin's if they are needed. I would like to build a full library as well, at least the federal emissions versions for the ECM PROMS. Does California still emissions test cars this old? If so, then I guess we need to dig up the CARB versions as well, for the convenience of those who have cars registered there. What a hassle.

Would also like to have all the BCM ROMS for all years and maybe even some BCM EEPROM images (option content/odometer/VIN) from various BCM's for reference. It has been my understanding that it is very difficult if not impossible to get these programmed anymore, as most places that will program odometers are only setup to do those built into a cluster as part of an IPC repair. The E platform setup is unique in that the BCM holds this data on a 28C16 EEPROM. The only really tricky part is the odometer reading. If I figure out the encoding on that, then those chips can also be programmed, though I am a bit leary of offering such a service.

Getting back closer to the original subject, I wish the 88 (smaller) hood emblem would be reproduced. Car Motorsports offers very good (OEM quality) repro 89-91 size hood emblems, and I have purchased one. While these will work on an 88, it would be nice to have the correct original ones available. Problem I see is that anything unique for 88's is such low demand that it is unlikely to be worth doing from the standpoint of profitability. Thus, the focus at this point needs to be more on items that are common to all 4 years, as there may be enough of a market to make some of those items worthwhile.

Weather stripping has already been mentioned, but I will add that to the wish list also since it is a common request that has not yet been fulfilled. Also, the trunk strip would be nice. I thought Mike at Reatta Parts was working on this a while back, but never saw anything further about it. I really need to look at some automotive rubber catalogs, I cannot imagine there isn't some kind of universal trunk stripping that would work.

KDirk

Edited January 16, 2012 by KDirk (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

I've added to my original list to include what has been suggested so far. We're up to 14 items. I didn't include the '88 hood emblem because I agree that the demand just wouldn't be there to justify the cost of reproducing it. I have the same feelings about the red reflector but I included it in the list because I have broken two of them myself since I've owned my car. Both times changing taillight bulbs.

[padgett]

Convertible top weatherstripping needs to be specifically added as different/special & needed

[NCReatta]

I'm going to be making some calls this week about getting the door pull caps re-made. Stay tuned.

[Guest Kingsley]

Padgett - sending you a PM now.

[wws944]

... I would like to build a full library as well, at least the federal emissions versions for the ECM PROMS. Does California still emissions test cars this old?

Of course they do. (Thank you Arnold for caving...)

If so, then I guess we need to dig up the CARB versions as well, for the convenience of those who have cars registered there. What a hassle....

Maybe. It would be interesting to know what the differences are. OTOH, my Federal car passes Cal smog checks with no problems.

[Jim]

I only scanned the replies to the initial thread but here is my take.

I fully agree with groingo post 7 the bottom line is demand.

For years visor clips were very hard to find. Barney made some good basic clips and Kingsley now has some excellent clips. For many years Mike talked about making a thousand or so, guess, but never did. Kingsley now has very nice ones and I would be interested to see just how many he has sold.

Lots of folks say they want a part if it is reproduced but in actuality only a portion of those folks will actually purchase them.

I hope I am wrong but if Steve does reproduce the letters his cost will be too high for the average person to purchase them.

Some thoughts on Ronnie's list----

I currently have 10 '90 headlight switches available and I send out about one per month. In my opinion not enough demand.

10 volt inverters for the dash light and console OR a pigtail to adapt to new style inverter that is readily available.

Reproduction metal or fiberglass sunroof panels. I get about one request per year.

Pigtail to connect iPod jack to the radio. Might be good for some folks as this should be a cheap piece.

Replacement tail light letters - (Steve has these on the way)

Reproduction plastic control box for 16 way seats. About 2 requests per year.

Reprogrammed computer chips, that are kept in stock and readily available for sale/exchange, to make the fans come on sooner. About two requests per year and that is not for the fans but to make the fuel pump run longer.

Plug & Play headlight control kit with a harness and relay that would take the load off the headlight switch.

88/89 style door pull strap plastic end caps and retainers. I do have a limited supply of these but this is one part I would agree should be reproduced as there will be a demand

Latch "catch" for the 88 style glove box. About 1 per year.

88/89 style gear shift indicator. Last week I shipped one and I think I have one more sold. These are the only requests in about a year.

88 glove box shocks My last request was about two years ago.

Weather stripping for doors, windows and trunk

Convertible top weatherstripping Definitely.

Red Reflectors on the Tail Lens. I get about 6 requests per year and currently have a good stock of both sides.

I certainly am not the only person that gets requests for parts but from my inquiries other than the convertible weather stripping and the door pull covers and inserts I would never invest the money as I am positive the return will not be there.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Jim (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

Now that we have some items on the "Wish List", maybe it's time to prioritize the list. I rearranged the list a little and put Jim's two suggestions at the top. Suggestions on how the list should be sorted are welcomed.

It's possible that a lot of folks here, including me, might have our sights set too high on what is possible in the way of reproduction/aftermarket parts for the Reatta. It is quite easy to do that if you are making a wish list. The reality is that most of the items on our list will never make it to market for the reasons Jim cited. However, I don't think that only two of the items should be considered as something that is doable. I feel that some of the items on the list like reprogramming chips, pigtails for iPods, adapters for inverters and some of the others could be done without much cash investment but they would require a considerable investment of time.

There is a good group of people on this forum that I think will take it upon themselves to create some of these products even though they might not be profitable. They will do it out of a desire to help other Reatta owners. A lot of people on this forum, Barney, Kingsley, Steve and others have already took steps to produce parts that if not for them would not be available today. Kevin and some others have reported they are working on rebuilding parts and they are to be commended for their efforts. This wish list may not amount to a hill of beans, but if it sparks one person's interest in producing another reproduction part, or rebuilding a part for the Buick Reatta it is worthwhile.

[Guest Kingsley]

Jim - would prefer not to divulge specific numbers but I have as yet to recoup my monetary investment much less the 16 months time spent in replicating the injection molded sun visor clips. At my somewhat advanced age, not sure that I ever will but have made plans for my 40 year old son to continue making them available.

Having said this, I am not at all disappointed in this undertaking. The inner reward that I experiece in accomplishing something like this cannot be measured only in dollars so in that respect perhaps you might say that I am even.

Would I do it again? Probably not the sun visor clips but my two models of the cranks arms that I sell do afford a monetary return and a tremendous inner reward.

Perhaps a bit corny, but some folks are not driven by money alone.

[KDirk]

Can't argue much with the points made by Ronnie, Jim and Kingsley. I think we are facing a few problems with regards to repro parts.

1. The Reatta is not yet rare enough to be coveted as a collectible. There are a number of reasons it may never be one, if one is realistic in their outlook. Then again, there are any number of reasons it could/should be at some point in the future. The other side of this present lack of rarity is the ready supply of parts cars. Heck, if someone (like Jim for example) can justify keeping a literal fleet, then parts scarcity is not yet the issue it will need to be to justify the investment in the more complex parts that are already on the wish list. In a way, we are lucky to have a number of people who are actively involved in supplying used parts as well as some new items. Many other worthy cars are far more neglected in that regard; the last generation Toronado/Trofeo as just one good example.

2. The vast majority of current Reatta owners are just regular people who like a unique car. Thus, they have regular lives and regular budgets; in other words, most of us are not of the means to spend large $ on a repro part when a passable used one can be had inexpensively and will do the job, even if it isn't concourse quality.

The number of people who own Reatta's and breathe the rarefied air of the obsessed collector to whom money is no object is far too small to represent a profitable market for reproductions of most of the items already added to the list. This is just reality. I can say that barring a winning lottery ticket, I will never be in that category and I am known for being a perfectionist, but with the constraints of reality limiting my budget. I suspect most of us who are regulars here are in the same situation.

3. Most of the parts that are on the wish list are just complex enough to require very expensive initial tooling and minimum commitments inasmuch as the quantity produced to cover the setup cost and still turn some modest profit. Unless someone is doing this kind of work as a break-even proposition just for the pride of offering something that no one else was willing to take on, it is very difficult to argue in favor of the outlay needed to accomplish just one project, to say nothing of a dozen or more items that many would like buy (until they see the price!).

4. The sad fact is, only a very small percentage of car collectors have the means and the determination to do restorations that require top-shelf repro parts. Again, most of us are just regular people with enough expendable income to be dangerous, not aspiring Jay Leno clones. How many times is there a project that gets started on a car forum to repro a part (even for say something as critical as a gasket that is no longer available) and a group buy is started but never reaches the minimum buy-in to proceed with production. This is terribly frustrating, but happens a lot. Most people will talk the talk when a offer to do a repro part is first put on the table, but will quickly disappear when they have to put their money where their mouth is.

So, while I will go ahead with my projects in progress (1990/91 IPC rebuilds, 88/89 mirror/window switches and maybe shift indicators) when I am ready to offer finished products I will be very interested to see what kind of demand actually exists. I am not expecting a lot, so the bar is set low and maybe I will be surprised. If there is more demand than I expect, I may decide to take on other items that are within my ability to accomplish.

As far as offering chips, this is also a very limited market. Very few people will bother with wanting the fan temperature changed, and so most of the (very infrequent) demand will be for replacement of chips that were somehow damaged. This is not a common problem, so I don't expect a lot of demand there.

Further, it makes no sense to stock them, since if I already have the chip image stored, I can "burn" one in a few minutes time and it is ready to go. A new EEPROM can cost $8-10 dollars in bulk and the programmer I bought some time ago for other projects was a $400 or so investment. If someone needs a chip, and I have the image to program what they need, I can make it and ship it the same day as I do keep blank chips on hand. In any case, I'm not expecting a lot of PM's asking for this service.

So, while I would like to hope that at least some of the list already compiled will be successfully pulled off, my expectations are tempered by all of the points I made above.

KDirk

[Guest 89 Maui]

Kevin -

I agree with you that the longer we wait to find a vendor the less Reatta's there will be on the road. So while the # of Reatta's on the road is down to 61%. We shouldn't wait til there is only 35% before we start vendor hunting. This will only cause the vendors to add-on more profit knowing that there is less customers for their product.

Since weatherstripping has been mentioned as a problem area of where to find replacements. I made a call to a company that manufacturers replacement weatherstripping for all makes of cars.

They donot make any for the Reatta and his first reponse was that it was a low production model. I then told him that we have found that out of the 21,000 made 61% are still on the road after 24 years. This kind of set him back and then gave me an email to one of their engineers to shoot our request to. The one thing to consider is they will need an original NOS weatherstrip to make a mold out of, they would prefer a new one in the original package. Maybe they might consider a very good condition used one.

I do not have the resoures to provide any new stripping.

If anyone can provide any of the various weatherstripping I will forward the email address to you. Just PM me if you can get the ball rolling on this (these) various weatherstrips.

This will help the Reatta community for the aging weatherstrip problems.

Woody

[zoltanb]

I agree, no matter how nice your car is if it has ever been in the sun it is deteriorating some faster than others. I have seen cars trashed because of bad irreplaceable rubber seals. In my younger days I owned Triumphs (from Tr2 to 6). It is really bad when you are afraid to drive your car for the fear of rain, it's even worse with a convertible. This one item can make a car unsellable if it gets a bad reputation for leaks.

The trunk seal is a standard Gm trunk seal, I cut one to fit from an after- market Olds 98 seal, works great.

The other rubber I can see a need for is the window sweeps witch I think are unique to the Reatta.

For the lack of a match the kingdom is lost.

[Guest Mike_s]

I get the impression that the rear sway bar rubber bushings that attach to the strut are hard to find.