NEW ICM, Coil Pack, EGR, Fuel Filter, and MAF STILL STALLING PLEASE I NEED YOUR HELP

[Guest CL_Reatta]

Hey there everyone, I just ran inside with frustration, after $500 of new parts, the Reatta is still stuttering/stalling, like title says, brand new ICM, Coil Pack, EGR, MAF, and Fuel Filter. I will start it up, and will be fine...but when I rev it, when RPMS hit around 2300 it starts stuttering, and after that it stutters, eventually pressing to gas to try to "save it" does nothing and it stalls. ANY advice PLEASE, can it possibly be a clogged cat? I am out of ideas and this thing needs to be running ASAP

Edited May 9, 2011 by CL_Reatta (see edit history)

[padgett]

Doesn't mention plug wires or plugs.

[Guest CL_Reatta]

Ive done the basics...plugs and wires are still fine....were inspected months ago....just drilled holes in the cat in case that was plugged, and still the same problem

[Ronnie]

You are going to need to isolate the problem to either an ignition problem or a fuel problem. I would spray some WD-40 into the intake when the engine is on the verge of dying.

Be careful using WD-40 around a hot engine. It is flammable!

If the engine responds to that by trying to continue running you will know you have a fuel problem. If it doesn't respond to that you should look closer for an ignition problem.

[Guest NEMO]

Crankshaft posistion sensor is your problem.

[Guest CL_Reatta]

That's a good idea, maybe I'll just use Starting fluid instead though. And CPS has been replaced also.. although that one is the oldest replaced part (replaced about 1.5 years ago)

[Ronnie]

Starting fluid will work but... it can be really hard on a running engine if it is Ether based starting fluid. It is also much more flammable. Let us know what you find.

[Guest NEMO]

I still think it is the CPS.They do fail. And if it has worn from contact with the harmanic balancer. I would check it.

[Ronnie]

I still think it is the CPS.They do fail. And if it has worn from contact with the harmanic balancer. I would check it.

You could be correct in thinking that. As we have learned from past experience, the CPS is one of the more difficult things to troubleshoot when it is suspected to be problematic, especially if it is intermittent. About the only sure fire way to know if the CPS is the cause of the problem is to replace it and see if the problem goes away or try to eliminate all the other possibilities. The process of elimination is what CL is trying right now. Maybe we will find an easy way to test the CPS in the future. I haven't given up on it yet.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

First thoughts. Last o2 replacement? Fuel pressure check, posible fuel pressure regulator or pump.

Cat would be easy and cheap to check. Just unbolt the down pipe and if it still runs like crap it is the cat. The gasket should be replaced after, they ar like 5 bucks.

[Guest CL_Reatta]

Well I tried the starting fluid, that did not change so it is definitely spark related. Will change out the CPS in a bit, if I remember correctly, its just remove balancer, remove old cps, put back on and make sure the fins are in the middle. Its been 6 years since I've personally done it done it so i'm a little rusty

[Guest NEMO]

The CPS can be changed on the 1989/1990 C series motor,without removing the balancer,I had done it. The 1991 year has the different code motor,L series, I think thats what they are.

[Guest CL_Reatta]

Well you can add the CPS also the list of replaced parts, yes it is still doing the same D**N thing

[Ronnie]

Wow! I can't believe all the things you have done without changing anything. I know you are frustrated but can you please answer some questions? These questions are assuming that spaying fuel into the intake does not help.

1. Did this problem start when you changed the ICM as stated in another thread or was that an attempt to correct this problem?
   
2. Does it idle smoothly when you first start it?
   
3. Does it still die if you keep it below 2300 rpm, say 1500 rpm?
   
4. Does it always do the same as you described in your first post even when the engine is cold? hot?
   
5. Will it continue to run if you let it go back to idle once it starts stuttering?
   
6. Can you try a spare ECM?
   

[Guest CL_Reatta]

I will gladly answer you questions. Problem started out a few weeks ago, would intermittently stall. but after warmed up, would go away.

1. Changed the ICM in order to solve the problem

2. When I first start it up, yes it will idle smooth

3. I have let it run for about 5 minutes at idle, and will run fine, but as soon as any load is added, it will: start stuttering once I start moving, or if stil in park, once I rev it up past 2200ish

4. Lately anytime, cold OR Hot

5. It eventually will die, I will post a video in a few minutes

6. I can't say I have an extra ECM laying around

[Ronnie]

Try this. It is simple compared to what you have been doing. Get the car running and put it in gear. Hold the foot brake and get the engine to stutter as long as you can until it dies. Pull a couple of spark plugs as soon as possible and see how they look. Post photos of the electrodes if you can. While you have the plugs out check the compression if you have a gauge handy.

[Guest CL_Reatta]

Alright, I'll get the wheel back on and do that shortly, until then, here is a video posted. Sadly I got a text in the middle of the first vid that showed it idling fine until its reved up and it quite recording, but this was taken right after it died that time, which shows it stuttering right off the bat. CIMG0024.mp4 video by cl_reatta - Photobucket

[Ronnie]

The video sounds like you have a huge vacuum leak. IF that is the way it really sounds you need to find out where that sucking/hissing sound is coming from. Check hoses and PCV valve closely Other than that all the spitting sounds make me think the timing chain might have jumped. Is it possible the spark plug wires are crossed? Check closely.

[Guest CL_Reatta]

Well idle speed is about right at about 800rpms so I don't think there is a huge vacuum leak, audio isnt the best considering there is grease and whatnot all over the phone. have checked the wires, and the wires havent been moved since before when it was running fine

[Ronnie]

Looks like the check engine light is on in the video. Are you still getting codes? What are they?

[Ronnie]

How many miles are on this engine?

[Guest CL_Reatta]

Actually the check engine light isnt on, surprisingly. Before I disconnected the battery however to change the icm, I was getting e063, e064, e065. Which I believe were egr related

[Blue90]

A month ago my Reatta was having trouble keeping an idle. The car would start fine, then die. I had the idle air control motor replaced and that solved the problem. I hope this helps.

[Ronnie]

The engine sounds like it is running extremely lean (possibly EGR related) or the valve/spark timing is off. Could you check for codes again? If you have codes, clear them and recheck. If you still have the same code you will need to address that before continuing.

Unless you are 110% certain the plug wires are not crossed I would run each one from the coil to the spark plug to be sure they are on correctly. Don't take that for granted.

[Ronnie]

Anyone have any other ideas on this one?

[Rawja]

Failing fuel pump? (WAG)

[2seater]

I would certainly get a fuel pressure gauge on it right now. It sounds dead lean despite what spraying stuff in the intake did. It only takes a couple of minutes to rule that out. A vacuum gauge on the engine will tell you something about the condition of the upper end too. There was an case just in the last couple of months where there was similar parts replacement but the fuel system was the problem.

[Guest CL_Reatta]

Alright, did as you suggested, well almost. started it up, ran fine, put it in gear, held brake while reving..it eventually stalled out, for the time constraint took out 1 and 3 plugs, look fine...very black, but not wet or anything. triple checked wires, they are fine. while it is stuttering it shows e026, but it goes away as soon as it stalls, and no light ever comes on. But it will not show up in history, will only show when the car is stuttering.

[Guest CL_Reatta]

I don't have the fancy fuel pressure tester to be able to test the fuel pressure.

[Ronnie]

Other things can trigger the E026 code but the E026 can be related to the operation of the EGR valve. Can you go into diagnostics and do the test on the EGR and Purge can listed below? You should hear a click each time the EGR circuits are energized. Do you? Also try cycling the EGR valves with the engine running to see how it affects the engine if it will run long enough.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[Guest CL_Reatta]

cycled through them with them running, no change Now it is showing e034 and e041 in the history codes.

[Guest NEMO]

There is a vaccume leak, from the sound of the video. Check the PVC valve and the related things, a back fire blew mine out,it is under the air manafold. may be the gasket that holds the PVC is cracked.

[Ronnie]

Did you do the tests with the engine off to see if you could hear the EGR solenoids clicking when you energize them?

It is odd that nothing is making a difference. Spraying fuel in the intake didn't help but it would be nice to know that the fuel pressure is correct. Maybe you could borrow a gauge.

[Guest CL_Reatta]

I gave everything that was vacuum related a quick going over, but will look more deep into the pcv tomorrow...right now I have a 5 page paper due at 9am and I gotta get that going lol. When doing the tests with the engine off, I can't say I heard anything, the screen was cycling between lo and hi during the test however. I can possibly see if my cousin who works at a GM dealer has access to one, but can't be certain.

[padgett]

Really sounds more like a secondary ignition problem to me and they will not set codes. I keep several plug testers around (on sale often) and one on each coil might tell something.

I am a great believer in instrumentation, built an ICM tester and have an O'scope which is the real way to test however most do not.

BTW it is amazing the problems a 3800 can have and the ECM will still give a smooth, correct idle. I'd suggest going over the plug wires and routing very carefully, might be crossed wires.

BTW2 vacuum leaks run worst at idle and generally smooth out as airflow increases.

[Barney Eaton]

Daniel mentioned fuel........does resemble an engine starving for fuel. Since idle is not a problem the fuel pump can keep up. Also it would not idle with a vacumn leak.

It could be a clogged fuel filter, fuel sock, or pump. It could also be a clogged cat converter but in general that is not a problem with Reattas.

[Guest CL_Reatta]

Have checked the wires, am 110% sure they are not crossed. To remind, has a new fuel filter, pump was replaced last year, and I drilled out holes in the cat so it can breath even if the cat is clogged

[Ronnie]

Have you ever cleaned and tightened the grounds at the junction point behind the battery on the fender panel?

Negative Junction Box Location*-*ReattaOwner.com

Probably not causing the problem but it is another thing you could eliminate as a possibility while you wait for a fuel pressure gauge. Eventually you are going to have to test the fuel pressure to eliminate that as being the problem.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

Wow O2 sensor is only 20 bucks. I had one fail in a week (due to seafoam, happened twice while using it in the fuel system). Also it threw no codes at all I went through every sensor until there was not othe option, thought no way could a bad O2 cause it, but....

[wht89reatta]

Have you checked the Throttle Position Sensor? Im not sure if thats its but its something to try.