Tire question??

[Dauphinee]

What is the good and bad to using either of these style tires on an 1936 pontiac??

Bias Ply

Radial

Yes I know originally the car had Bias Ply.

Just asking if it changes the handling or creates any problems with the front end?

I know that Coker has replacemtent Bias. Just curious.

[Mark Shaw]

I run original bias ply tires on my 38 Buick Special. They do not perform like radials, but then I don't do much freeway driving... Pick your tires for what you plan to do with the car. If you have a show car, go original. If you have a driver, radials will work better for you.

As far as creating problems; I have not seen any evidence proving radials cause problems with old cars. They do make them track better and improve the ride.

[ply33]

There are some allegations that older rims might split due to flexing if fitted with radial tires. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be hard evidence on one side of the other of this allegation to settle the issue in my mind.

[West Peterson]

It doesn't make as much of a difference with prewar cars as it does with postwar cars. Usually this question arises when people are having troubles with their car wandering, expecting the radials to solve the problem.

And usually, it doesn't solve the problem, because the problem is more than likely that the front end and steering needs rebuilding. So, as has been said many, many times before, make sure your house is in order (king pins, tie-rod ends, steering box, etc.) before switching to radials.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

It doesn't make as much of a difference with prewar cars as it does with postwar cars. Usually this question arises when people are having troubles with their car wandering, expecting the radials to solve the problem.

And usually, it doesn't solve the problem, because the problem is more than likely that the front end and steering needs rebuilding. So, as has been said many, many times before, make sure your house is in order (king pins, tie-rod ends, steering box, etc.) before switching to radials.

100% correct! Also 100% correct is Bias Ply tires are less forgiving of developing issues with steering components than Radial tires.

I've never seen a "wandering" issue that wasn't the result of deferred attention to bushings somewhere in the scheme of things, worn tie rod ends, center link wear, and used up ball joints. Maybe all at the same time.

Jim

[Barry Wolk]

I do not agree. Driving a Mark II with new components with radials and driving a Mark II with bias ply on new components is a world of difference. Anecdotal evidence, maybe, but there are a whole lot of people that would agree.

I have spoken to a number of engineers that worked on the Continental project that stated, categorically, that had radials been commercially viable at the time the Mark II would have had them.

[West Peterson]

That's what I was implying, Barry. "It's different for prewar cars vs postwar cars." You don't see that much of a difference on the prewar cars.

[mrspeedyt]

I have a bias over radials.... (usually a lot less damage to the car if the tire 'disassembles'...)

[Barry Wolk]

Sorry West, I misread your statement. Radials made an enormous difference on the '55 Porsche. You had a 356. Did you run it on radials or bias-ply?

BTW, my pre-war cars are fitted with new bias-ply tires. The difference is that the '41 Ford pick-up won't do over 45 and the '33 Continental, while supposedly is capable of 75 mph:eek:, that'll never happen with me behind the wheel.

West, you know that I'm serious about driving my cars. While a lot of Concours participants say that they drive their cars, is it not fair to say that the vast, vast, majority show up on trailers? I've seen you at many distant shows. I talk the talk and drive the drive, so to speak.

I have tried to drive on bias ply but the ruts wear me out as the bias-plys always wanted to find their way, in a direction I hadn't intended. I like to drive my cars, not fight with them.

[Rusty_OToole]

Radials are better tires but bias ply more authentic on a prewar car. Also, bias ply are easier to steer. Many complaints of hard to steer, or wish to install power steering, after putting on radials. But usually on heavier, postwar cars. And has already been pointed out, if the steering and suspension and shock absorbers are in good shape, and a front end alignment done, the radials are not so bad. But bias ply still steers easier.

My own choice would be bias ply. I would be avoiding interstates and heavily travelled roads with a car like that and not getting into situations where the tires would make a difference to safety. As much out of respect for the age and capability of the car as anything.

[Rusty_OToole]

Barry if you mean what I think you mean, and your front end is in good shape and properly aligned, try holding the wheel looser. Let it dither around a little and do not fight it all the time. It may take a little getting used to.

[Barry Wolk]

I only wish to point out that the car is easier to steer because of the significantly smaller contact patch.

[Guest bkazmer]

Barry, interesting info on the Continental . Since Ford was working to attain high standards and Michelin had radials out, any idea if the idea was seriously pursued?

[Barry Wolk]

Ford didn't start using radials until the '69 Continental Mark III. They were an absolute disaster as the tires did come apart on a regular basis. It was an interesting transition period. Many owners went to bias-ply. I believe they could be ordered with either style. I find it interesting that people fell for the hype of "radial tuned suspension" when there really was no difference.

It is interesting to note that the LCOC no longer deducts for radial tires as long as the white wall is period correct.

Rusty, I no longer fight the wheel on the Continental, as I run radials.

[ply33]

Barry if you mean what I think you mean, and your front end is in good shape and properly aligned, try holding the wheel looser. Let it dither around a little and do not fight it all the time. It may take a little getting used to.

Sounds like the instructions I got when I learned to drive in the 1960s before radials were on everything.

[Barry Wolk]

Apparently I'm having a reading comprehension problem today. Rusty, I now assume your advice is for my pre-war cars fitted with bias ply, correct?

[ply33]

...snip...

Rusty, I no longer fight the wheel on the Continental, as I run radials.

What size tires does that car take? Are these the radials for vintage size wheels like 550R17 that Coker has listed in recent times?

[Barry Wolk]

What size tires does that car take? Are these the radials that Coker has listed in recent times?

I run P23575R15 Coker Classics on rims with a 1/2" shallower back set to offset the width of the tire. There is a potential for the tire to come in contact with the upper balljoint. The replacement wheels were made for radials, virtually eliminated the cacophony that my hubcaps made. They are silent with the new wheels, and I haven't chased a hubcap in years.

The Silverstone tire they sell looks much more like a bias-ply than a radial.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Daphinee, as you see, you will get many opinions. Nothing difinitive. I use radials. And since it is a driver,I elected to go with with off the shelf tires from my local tire store. About $80.00, versus maybe $200.00 for "correct" tires. I just completed a 1400 mile round trip and had no problems. My car is a 1950 Buick Special.

Ben

[Barry Wolk]

I guess I have a question. I have trouble discerning the difference in appearance between bias-ply and radials, except for the slight bulge at the bottom. If the original size wheel and hubcap are used, and the white wall is the same as the original, and the OD of the tires is the same, what's the visual objection?

[West Peterson]

Sorry West, I misread your statement. Radials made an enormous difference on the '55 Porsche. You had a 356. Did you run it on radials or bias-ply?

Yes. I had a 356 Super 90, which loved to go 90mph. I did put radials on it, thinking that they would improve the wandering. It didn't help hardly at all, because of my earlier comment about the front end parts needing rebuilding. As it turned out, the damper that's found in the middle of the steering column was about to let go. I think there's a safety wire built in, so perhaps a disaster wasn't avoided, but that was the main cause of there being so much play in the wheel and the fight to keep it going straight down the road.

So, make sure everything else is fine before you choose radials.

[R Walling]

The first car that I restored was a 58 Mercury. I wanted to be correct so I opted for Bias tires and regretted it till the day I sold it.

They made so much noise going around corners that I thought I would be aressted for speeding.

The next car was 65 Mustang and It got radials, and every car sence!

[Dauphinee]

Wait..I believe the tire size is a 650 16 or a 600r 16. Without going out and checking they are one of those two sizes.

You can't just put a radial on the original rims and have it work can you?

If so what size is it in a radial?

If I were to change rims and tires what size would I use and would it change my speedo?

[Rusty_OToole]

"Apparently I'm having a reading comprehension problem today. Rusty, I now assume your advice is for my pre-war cars fitted with bias ply, correct?"

This is what I was referring to:

"I have tried to drive on bias ply but the ruts wear me out as the bias-plys always wanted to find their way, in a direction I hadn't intended. I like to drive my cars, not fight with them."

It was just a suggestion.

As far as appearance goes modern radials are lower and fatter than typical pre 1968 tires. One way around this is to buy the cheapest radials on the market. This is what I did on my 1951 DeSoto. I bought Walmart's Marshall 791 radials which are 2 1/2" narrower than name brand tires of the same nominal size. This avoided the clearance and rubbing problem often encountered when putting wide tires on this model and also gave a more authentic appearance.

Not that I am suggesting you put Walmart tires on your Lincoln Continental lol.The other solution is to buy the most expensive tires on the market.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Wait..I believe the tire size is a 650 16 or a 600r 16. Without going out and checking they are one of those two sizes.

You can't just put a radial on the original rims and have it work can you?

If so what size is it in a radial?

If I were to change rims and tires what size would I use and would it change my speedo?

If you were to use radials on the exiting wheels more than likely P215R75 16s would do the trick. Yes you can use your original wheels though under certain turning situations there might be sufficient wheel flex to result in a hubcap being tossed off the wheel. With limited driving flexing should not be a major issue.

Given speedometers of the era of your car were never accurate to better than plus or minus 5% of actual speed a minor deviation in overall tire diameter should not be a major issue.

Jim

[buick5563]

I run bias ply tires on my 55 Buick. The first year I drove it to the Buick Nationals, I was all over the place, and frankly scared. It was 1800 miles one way, and I was not looking forward to the drive home. When I got home, I adjusted the steering box to factory specs, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, disassembled, lubed, and adjusted the center link. After getting the car realigned, it tracks straight and true. Even at 75 mph.

Remember that even though radials are supposed to get better gas mileage, they usually have a wider tread patch which will actually negate any mileage gains. My friend finally switched over to radials on his 55 Century because he only got 20k miles out of his bias plies. He said that there was a bit of improvement in handling at highway speeds but parking was noticeably more difficult, even with power steering (due presumably to the aforementioned tread width).

So Barry, do we call the Continental a restomod?

[Barry Wolk]

Call it what you like. That's the very reason I don't show my cars in any club events.

[West Peterson]

So Barry, do we call the Continental a restomod?

Mike

Perhaps you're unaware that Barry's Continental is one of two built for Ford Motor Company when new. Barry's car was done by Hess & Eisenhardt, the other by Derham (??). I believe that Barry has enough documentation on his car (including letters from factory workers) where it would be eligible in AACA judging.

And I'm pleased to hear of your success with fixing your handling problems by rebuilding your front end. That's exactly what I did with my 1940 Packard. I drive it up to 75-80mph and there is absolutely no problem keeping it on the road. I then went out and drove my father's 1942 Packard (essentially the exact same chassis set-up, same wheelbase, etc.). His front end has also been completely rebuilt, but he went the route of adding radial tires. I found in this comparison test that there was so little difference in handling, that it was not worth the trouble, expense (if there is any over and above using bias) or the change in appearance (yes, Barry, I can easily tell the difference).

[Barry Wolk]

Actually, there were 3 made. Two by H & E in late '55 and one made by Derham introduced at the Texas State Fair in October 1957.

If anyone is interested, I've arranged a display of 6-8 Continental Mark IIs to be in Ford's lobby for the month of July.

[buick5563]

West,

I do know very much about Barry's car. It is a gorgeous car and I was trying to point out the silliness of our attitudes on the trivialities. I was just referencing other threads here and razzing for no reason...it's what I do.

[Guest akaBC]

If you were to use radials on the exiting wheels more than likely P215R75 16s would do the trick. Yes you can use your original wheels though under certain turning situations there might be sufficient wheel flex to result in a hubcap being tossed off the wheel. With limited driving flexing should not be a major issue.

Given speedometers of the era of your car were never accurate to better than plus or minus 5% of actual speed a minor deviation in overall tire diameter should not be a major issue.

Jim

I held off commenting so as not to switch the subject to post-war cars, but mayhaps this is germain to the topic anyway: When my friends and I put radials on our 1960 Cad converts, the wheelcovers, which have numerous, small tabs that grip the outermost edge of the wheels, started "walking." We supposed that wheel flex combined with rotation, encouraged them to move, consequently damaging the valve stems and to pop off at the slightest provocation. These things didn't happen when we used bias-plies. The handling, BTW, seemed to improve. I love driving my Six-Zero--rather, I shall so do once I get 'er back on the by-ways again. . . .