Hello and any reason not to buy this?

[bepnewt]

Hello, all. I'm new to the forums and hopefully a new owner of a '63 - '65 Riviera soon.

I've been looking for the perfect '63 - '65 for me for a while and I think I found it on eBay in Santa Monica. I'm not expert by far so I'm not sure what to look for in these pictures and the description that would hint at any kind of problem. The only thing that stands out to me is nowhere is it mentioned that this engine is the original engine for the car. Again, I'm no expert, but the engine sure looks like it has newer parts on it than a '63 would have.

Anyway, I am going to call these folks tonight and if you guys can think of anything I should ask them about the vehicle, I'd appreciate it!

Buick : Riviera - eBay (item 180610270268 end time Jan-15-11 11:43:29 PST)

Thanks and I hope I get to join the ranks soon!

-BEP

[bob71GS]

Bep,

I certainly would not jump into buying any antique car that I knew absolutely nothing about before I did my homework and extensive research on. The internet has a wealth of information available to you at your fingertips. If you want to learn about the 63-65 Riviera's there is no better place than to join the Riviera Owners Association. Our dues are only $30 a year and it is the best your money can buy. Check out our web site: www.rivowners.org

Bob Bonto #277 ROA

Technical Advisor 71-73;)

[CheezeMan]

Hi Bep,

Absolutely agree with Bob. Do your homework first. Establish what your goals and priorities are. Join the ROA (you don't need to own one to join!) and use the experts here. They love to talk Rivi.

I bought my car after spending years researching Rivi's and narrowing down what I wanted. I got the best that my budget would allow.

The pictures on that car show many tel-tail signs. Some of the main issues to me from the pics are: the engine is not original to that car or is even a 63 (Its from a '60 LeSabre)! It's been repainted, but who knows how much rust was sprayed over. Ditto the truck lining-- lift that up and check for rust. The trim tag shows 03C (3rd week of March) but the spare tire is located in the spot for early builds-- could be nothing. I've heard of guys taking 4 or 5 parts car to build 1.

I'm not trying to discourage you or negatively influence you, though, so please don't take me wrong. You may want exactly that, and that is just fine! We all enjoy our Rivs and no reason you shouldn't either.

[RivNut]

I think that 12K is quite a bit of money for this car. Here's some things I noticed that might influence your decision to buy.

Plain Jane car

• No tilt
  
• No power window
  
• No power seats
  
• standard interior
  
• no a/c
  
• vinyl on consol is peeling
  
• incorrect wheel covers
  
• plush, not loop carpeting - didn't recarpet kick panels
  
• Dash is poorly recovered
  
• wrong trunk material
  
• left trunk bumper stop is painted, right stop is missing
  
• No PCV system - std. on all '63's ('60 engine as was pointed out)
  
• "spray can rebuild" paint on exhaust manifolds
  
• windshield washer button in missing from switch
  
• Mufflers appear to be under seats - makes for a hot butt
  
• door jamb switch wiring is hanging loose and is painted
  

Now for the biggee

• Paint code RR is Desert Sand. Artic white is CC. This isn't even artic white anyway, it's more of an appliance white
  

If I were looking at this car I'd R-U-N far and fast; who can tell what's been hidden?????

As others have said previously. Take your time. Join the ROA. Educate yourself. Know what you're looking at. There are a couple of listings for 63's and '64's in the latest Riview (mailed last week) that sound like a better deal than this car.

You're probably not aware of this, but the '63 is the last year for the Dynaflow (first year was '48) and '64 was the first year for the TH400 (Buick called it the ST400.) This makes a big difference when it comes time to find parts and someone who can work on it.

Ed

[lrlforfun]

OK Riviera prospect: Although it's been a while, I have seen this car up close. It belonged to a man I know here in Northern California. He sold it to this flipper (he claimed for 5K), most likely the guy that is trying to sell it in Santa Monica. It's a poverty model all the way and it's been for sale for a long time. I think it's fairly clean although I didn't microscopically examine it.

When I saw it it had fat white tires on it which didn't help it's appearance. I also am not sure if it has it's original motor because I sold the guy who owned it a 4 barrel intake (which I have yet to get paid for) in which he said he wanted to help out the buyer because it had a 2 barrel (From a 62 or 3 Lesabre maybe).

It's been on the ebay at least a half a dozen times and I think the money isn't too far from the 5 grand he gave for it. Then again, I'm just another disinterested party (jerk) giving an opinion Ultimitely it's your dough. One thing for sure is that these Rivieras are plentiful. I hate to see a flipper get greedy and kick a dead horse like this guy has openly demonstrated. Mitch

[bepnewt]

Thank you gentlemen, I really appreciate the insight. I've learned quite a bit about the early Rivs in the last few years, but it's the little things that experts like yourselves can spot that I never would have known until it was too late.

I visited one at lunch today that was listed as a '65, but it turned out to be a '64. The exterior was gorgeous. The interior was usable, but would need to be replaced at some point. The price was definitely too high for what it was.

I'm going to look at this one tomorrow at lunch:

1963 Buick Riviera

More pictures here:

More Pics!

The good: It has most of the options I want. It's local - 3 miles away. He's been trying to sell it for 10 months - I remember the original listing back in March of last year.

The bad : It turns over, but doesn't start. I don't like the silver leather or these particular wheels/hub caps.

He had it listed at $10.5k last year and now has it at $9.5k. I'm sure he'd take $9k cash. We'll see. I'll know more tomorrow.

I joined the ROA this evening; hopefully, I'll have access to the Members Only section soon to see the new classifieds.

Again, thanks for the information above. My perfect Riv ( '65, Green/Green GS, all options ) is out of my price range, so my goal is to get as close as possible that I can afford.

-BEPNewt ( Brian E. Parker )

Edited January 13, 2011 by bepnewt (see edit history)

[Paul K.]

Just my opinion but WAY OVERPRICED for a car that doesn't run and has not been driven for 10 to 12 years. The fuel, brake and cooling systems need to be gone through/rebuilt to drive it safely or at all. Some exhaust work and maybe a transmission reseal too. You can do the minimum to get it going but it won't be dependable, a blown hose this week, fuel pump next week, etc. If you do your own work, it is not too much $$$ but if you don't, it could be a grip of cash. When I buy a car that does not run, I usually cut its value in half or more. Looks like it could be a nice car, good provenance and garaged. Since it doesn't run, I would bet he hasn't gotten an offer over $3,500.

[cjp69]

Brian,

You mention that your perfect Riv is green on green, I am assuming you mean the one on ebay?

I know of a green on black Riv GS that is going to be for sale. Send me your email address. I was considering it, but just bought a red one last weekend.

Mine is candjpollak@hotmail.com

Thanks, Chris

[bepnewt]

Thanks for the reply, Paul. If the body / interior is good and all the lights, etc. are functioning, I'm going to consider this car. I'll factor in a worst case engine rebuild into the equation keeping in mind the tranny if I make an offer. Again, thanks for the clear-headed information!

I'm also waiting for my mechanic to call me back. I left him a message asking if he would look at the car with me today. Short notice, but maybe he'll have time.

Chris - email sent. Thanks.

-BEPNewt

[lrlforfun]

OK B: Sounds like you're Jonesin' for a Riv. I know the feeling. Stay patient. Although that silver car looks nice in the pics, heed the advise of the other's warnings. I am an expert on old Buicks that have been in a deep hibernation. This car is maybe 5 grand running excellent and it doesn't even run at this time. Do the math. Greedy or perhaps delusional seller....AGAIN!

Two final thoughts. Most people don't even bother to respond to an add on an overpriced car. The reason being is that they don't want to deal with the drama of making the seller an offer that the seller thinks is a "lo-ball" offer even though the offer might be the market price. I personally feel that when a seller even puts that "lo-ball" blurb in their add it's a red flag. Last, if you are afraid of dealing with the drama perhaps you could get some support from a person you trust when you negotiate. Mitch

[bepnewt]

The Jonesin' has been building for many years, and it's peaking now, for sure.

I saw the silver one today and was disappointed. The paint is much worse than appears and so is the leather interior. The dash and instrument panel looks good. It didn't have a battery in it so I couldn't mess with any of the electric.

The owner is a very nice guy who does understand that he's not going to get a good price for it based on out chat. His plan is to get it running in the Spring and knows that no one is going to want to buy it "dead" for much money at all.

With all of the knowledge you guys have armed me with, I'm going to be more patient and make sure I get one that's a lot closer to what I really want.

-BEPNewt

[RivNut]

This silver '63 looks like a much better deal than the white one you were looking at. If you don't like the wheel covers that are on it, The original ones are in the trunk. There are other parts in the trunk as well; I'd be asking why they're there. Are they left over from a parts car used to fix this one after it was wrecked? Or are were they collected "just in case."

Have the owner get it started and then take a good look at it. Silver leather is quite an attractive option for most of the folks that I know. IMHO, I think in time the silver/silver would grow on you and you'd like it. Lighter colors, like silver, really accent the crisp lines of these cars better than darker colors do.

Ed

[Paul K.]

Ditto on the silver paint and leather. Nice combo on a Riv. Bringing the mechanic to look over the care is a great idea providing he is a REAL mechanic and has some knowledge of old cars. They are simpler than new vehicles but they are different. Having a professional inspect a used car prior to purchase is something most people don't do and regret it. Your emotions have not taken control of your judgment.

[Patrick91914]

The silver/silver is one of my favorite color combos. I think the price is high and I wouldn't want to deal with the 63's complex A/C system; however, the car looks like it has potential if you want to put the money into a new interior and getting the motor sorted. Looks like a good project if the price is right.

[bepnewt]

As you guys can tell, I'm new to buying an older car. These are the areas I'm thinking about when I look at the Rivs to figure out what I will have to put into it:

Drivetrain

Exterior ( Paint / Rust / Body damage )

Interior ( Dash/Instruments, Upholstery )

Odds/Ends ( Working Lights/Gauges, AC, Options: Powers Seats/Windows, Rear Defrost, etc. )

As random numbers, I've been assigning:

$4k - 7k : Drivetrain - rebuild all

$3k - 5k : New interior, top to bottom, assuming all trim, etc. is in hand

$4k - 6k : Fix multiple rust spots and dings, new good paint

$1k - 2k : Random small pieces missing, refurbish AC, fix random small things

I may be way off base with my $$$ assumptions so feel free to correct me if I'm crazy in any area.

So, my goal is to find a car that is solid in 2-3 of the 4 areas so I can focus on just dealing with major problems in just 1 or 2 areas.

The silver/silver one looked like it was relatively solid in the interior and exterior. There was a little damage showing under the front left bumper but the leather looked good and the dash / instruments looked good. So, I was looking at drivetrain and the small things. This was all based on the pictures. After I saw it in person, things changed quite a bit. The leather is in pretty bad shape and cracked badly, now. The body has quite a few small rust spots and scrapes that aren't visible in the pics. So, it went from having an interior I could keep for a while to one that really won't work and a body that I would want to have repainted soon before any of the rust got worse. Throw in the non-starting engine and this one is pretty much out of contention unless he's willing to dump it for $3-4k.

And the whole Dynaflow tranny worries me in the '63s now that I've been reading on this and other forums. I think I'd be more comfortable having a '64 or '65 and not have to worry about finding someone who can work on it.

Between the '64 and '65, I'd prefer a '65 but the right '64 will get my attention. I'm looking at a '64 right now that's relatively nearby at 4 hours away. It doesn't have the correct engine, but it does have the Super Wildcat engine in it. The car is generally clean so it's worth me looking at.

-BEP

[1965rivgs]

Hi Brian,

Just a few observations/comments...in my area, Chicago, your estimate of paint and body work would need to be doubled.

In my opinion, in today`s market, there are many nice cars for sale which are DONE and reasonably priced. Unless one is looking for the experience of restoration it makes economic sense to buy a car which does not need work in any of the areas you note. Just my opinion...

Tom Mooney