Need the experts opinion on the body of this 65 GS

[Guest Rob J]

I'm looking at this car, and attached are some pics of some area's of rust. To me (not knowing a whole lot about 65 Riv's) the body on this car doesn't appear to be in too bad a shape, although it is far from perfect. I'm mainly concerned about an area of rust which is in the bottom of the drivers side door jamb. There is a approx. 2"x3" hole which goes through to the driver's kick. Seems like a strange area to rust. Is this common on these cars? How difficult and expensive will it be to properly repair this? How about the rear lower quarters? I've certainly seen much worse, but these do need some work. Most of the rest of the body seems to be in fairly good shape, considering. Looking for opinions. This is a true GS, and it is a highly optioned cars.

Thanks, Rob.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Rob J (see edit history)

[Guest Rob J]

Are these riveted on panels stock?

[Guest Rob J]

Edited December 4, 2010 by Rob J (see edit history)

[rivgs]

Rob,

People have restored worse cars. Don't let the rust at the door hinge be a deal breaker if the price is right. If you do buy it, pull the windshield and you will probably find where the water was getting in to cause the rust. I would be more worried what is hidden under the paint that has been sprayed already ( the patch panels in the trunk should not be left that way) You didn't say how much they are asking for the car, this should be a big factor in your decision.

[Guest Rob J]

Rob,

People have restored worse cars. Don't let the rust at the door hinge be a deal breaker if the price is right. If you do buy it, pull the windshield and you will probably find where the water was getting in to cause the rust. I would be more worried what is hidden under the paint that has been sprayed already ( the patch panels in the trunk should not be left that way) You didn't say how much they are asking for the car, this should be a big factor in your decision.

The car has been sitting for many years. The gentleman whom owns the car has owned it for 33 years. He started a restoration in the 80's, then it never got finished. According to him, the car was primed and jambs, ect.. cut in back in the 80's.

The car is mostly complete less the correct carbs, and the Chrome Super Wildcat air cleaner. The engine and transmission were rebuilt in the 80's, he has the receipts, but the engine has not ran since 1992. He claims he worked as a GM tech for many years, and he put the engine to sleep properly, by filling each cylinder with 80 weight oil, running all the gas out, ect.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Rob J
made a typo (see edit history)

[cjp69]

Rob,

when you say it is complete except the chrome super wildcat motor, do you mean its missing the chrome air cleaner, or that the motor is not original?

In my opinion, if its missing the original engine, you would be money ahead buying a restored car that isn't numbers matching if that is what you are looking for.

I know of a couple priced from mid teens to mid twenties, and also a numbers matching car in the high teens that is a nice driver (he takes it to shows but doesn't win).

[JZRIV]

Rob,

What would worry me most about that car is it current state of being dismanteled. If you were someone who has taken these part and put them back together a few times it wouldn't be a big deal but not having experience with them I think you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment if you buy a car like this. I am speaking in general terms and there are always exceptions so when I say that I'm not judging your motivation or skill level. Besides major rust repair, there is nothing worse than having to put a car back together that somone else took apart.

If the areas you show are the only ones with rust through that probably wouldn't be my biggest concern.

You can't assume the engine isn't going to need torn apart. Since so many years have passed it would be very risky to do so. Having documentation on what was done would help in a way that you'd know what all they worked on and could focus on those areas when you take it apart to make sure the work was done properly. If it was me I'd assume the engine is going to need work and budget money for it. If it does not then you'll be ahead. At a minimum I'd take it down and check all the critical clearances. If you plan to get original carbs and have them rebuilt that could cost $1000 easily and probably more.

What are your plans for the car? A driver quality car that is presentable for Saturday night cruises or a fully restored authentic car? The reason I ask is because if your goal is to have a high end car, everything starts to get really expensive even if you do the work yourself.

I'd consider that car for $2500 but thats just me and is coming from someone who is not a 1st gen guy so I would be airing on the side of caution on what I was getting into. If it was in the same condition but not in so many pieces it could be worth $4000-$5000 but again thats just one opinion. The car will be worth more or less than what I think depending on the individual

Edited December 4, 2010 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[RivNut]

I'll have to reiterate a couple of things Jason said. If you're a DIY body man, and you've done a couple of these before, this car might be a candidate for a daily driver if the price is right.

Why did the PO intall the antenna in the rr quarter panel? I'm also curious as to what the two shiny bolts are in the trunk and the riveted patch panels on each side of them.

You'd have to know these cars extremely well to really know that everything is there just by looking in boxes.

Spend the money you're setting aside for the restoration up front and buy something you know for sure is going to get you where you want to be. Lots and lots of people just like this seller. "Going to restore it, but ran out of time/money." You'll get frustrated by the lack of progress and wind up getting rid of it for pennies on the dollar.

Ed

Edited December 4, 2010 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Guest rsteere]

Rob,

Remember that old primer didn't have sealer in it. You will find rust underneath it when you start removing it. It also looks like the floor pans are rusted through. Take a small pick or screw driver and tap on the rust spots. My bet is it will find holes. As everyone has said you will have to go through everything to make sure it is in good condtion. When I buy cars like this one I price them as a parts car. Then if I can make something out of it I win. You will also find parts missing and broken when you start the assembly.

Randy

[Guest Rob J]

Rob,

when you say it is complete except the chrome super wildcat motor, do you mean its missing the chrome air cleaner, or that the motor is not original?

In my opinion, if its missing the original engine, you would be money ahead buying a restored car that isn't numbers matching if that is what you are looking for.

I know of a couple priced from mid teens to mid twenties, and also a numbers matching car in the high teens that is a nice driver (he takes it to shows but doesn't win).

Sorry, I made a typo. It does have the correct LX code block. It is missing the Chrome Air Cleaner, not motor. He has receipts of what he claims to be a no expense spared re-build of the engine and transmission back in the 80's. He has sent me pics of the engine re-build from the past. He also has receipts totaling over 10k for the re-build of the engine, tranny, steering box, suspension, ect... The last time that engine ran was in 1992. He claims it has 3k miles on it after the re-build.

It has Carter AFB carbs that he purchased new in the early 80's, but it does not have the correct number original carbs.

The purchase of this car also includes a 65 (non-GS) Parts car, that is complete (so he claims) minus it's 401 engine.

As Jason stated, my biggest concern is the fact that I have not taken this car apart myself, and documented the dis-assembly. Putting it back together properly is my biggest fear. The parts car seems to be almost fully assembled, so hopefully that car could aide the process.

I'm still giving it some thought. I think his price is somewhat fair, but the more I look at it, the more I see things, and the more I think he needs to come down a bit. The purchase of this car rides solely on the fact that the engine and tranny should not need a full re-build. But, there is really no way of knowing that for sure until you actually get into it.

It's always a crap shoot either way when you are buying a 45+ year old car.

My intention with this car would be to do a frame off, and bring it to close to original. Not necessarily a concours restoration that has all the correct markings, tags, ect... But a really nice original looking driver. What ever car I restore, I intend to drive it. It won't be a trailer queen.

[64R]

I'll throw my 2 bits in. I do all my own restoration work, body, paint, etc., it's very time consuming so if you're paying someone else, it's going to add up FAST. Things are always worse than they appear and Riv's don't have every possible bit of sheet metal available so you'll need to fabricate, more $$$. As others have stated putting it back together will be a daunting task as well. All in all it's almost always cheaper to buy a built one than build one.

I don't mean to be a downer and I would love to see the car saved. Like everyone else just want to make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. The biggest thing in your favour is it's a GS so at least it has a higher upside.

[tim63riv]

Rob,

This car is surely restorable, but at what cost? The drivetrain is a crap-shoot unless you can get it running before the purchase. My biggest issue is with the rust in the door post area, that is a MAJOR structure area and would take tons of fabrication($$$) or at minimum, welding in a replacement section from the donor car.

I'm not sure that the patch panels in the trunk are over rust or not, they may be from something that was bolted in? If the body has rust holes on vertical surfaces, there may be even more surprises waiting for you.

Usually, one of the biggest rust issues with 1st generation Riv's is the rear body mounts in the 4 corners of the trunk. Look at those and the floor pans UNDERNEATH the car before you buy!

Remember, the previous owner stopped the restoration process years ago, and the rust may have been the cause.

HTH,

Tim

[1965rivgs]

Hi Rob,

Cool collection of parts, I`d love to make it a car again.

The rust in the door hinge area is typical but quite extensive given the condition of the rest of the sheetmetal. The lower corners of the cowl are wiped out (behind the front fenders). Not a big deal but the car likely has alot of "sitting around in the weather" kind of rust. Too bad the present owner has stored it this way. Also hard to tell if the car is straight as most of it is in primer.

Looks like a decent start for someone familiar with the cars so a proper initial inspection can be made. In terms of price I think the perspectives offered need to be adjusted for the fact this is a GS model and has a much higher potential value than a regular Riv. Higher potential value could be as high as 2 times your typical Riv...but you already know that.

Good luck, if you need any info dont hesitate to call,

Tom Mooney

PS If you pass on this in the $2500 price range let me know, I`ll wire the money and send a transporter.....immediately!

[Guest Rob J]

Well guys, I just found out it is not a numbers matching block. It is an LX code block, just not the original one to the car. Also, the transmission does not have an ID plate on it, so I don't know if it is the proper BS code tranny.

The sale includes that parts car you see in the background. He wants more than $2,500. He wants more like 6k for the car and the parts car together. If it were $2,500, I'd be on the road to go pick it up already.

[1965rivgs]

[cjp69]

Well guys, I just found out it is not a numbers matching block. It is an LX code block, just not the original one to the car. Also, the transmission does not have an ID plate on it, so I don't know if it is the proper BS code tranny.

The sale includes that parts car you see in the background. He wants more than $2,500. He wants more like 6k for the car and the parts car together. If it were $2,500, I'd be on the road to go pick it up already.

Given that, how do you know its a real Gran Sport? Does he have paperwork?

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Assuming it could be a GS, it is a bad buy at virtually any price considering all that would need to be done to it. There is easily $10 to $12 grand in body and paint work alone and you still will not have touched the interior or engine. In other words that thing is a potential money pit that is going to take 100s of man hours to get it to the point you could put it back on the road. There is probably another $3 to $5 grand in surprises not evident from the photos or even an in person visual inspection; such as brake system, suspension, rear axle, fuel tank, A/C, radiator, and lines, etc. And we haven't even covered the cost of re-chroming all the bright metal.

To confirm an earlier post, your best bet is to find a running one with far fewer problems, you'll save yourself a bundle along with a lot of headaches.

Jim

[TexRiv_63]

Rob,

Walk away quickly and keep looking.

Don

[Patrick91914]

That's a $500 car and that's just because there's an LX block, dash emblem and if you're lucky there's a posi. I'll keep saying this: The '65 GS Package is an option, not a separate model. Dont pay good money for a bad body just becuase it's a GS. Buy it as a parts car or wait for the right vehicle that complete. You gonna spend the money anyway and the cheaper route it to get a car that done or near done. If you are inclined to rebuild the car, I wouldn't worry about the numbers not matching so long at it have the correct code block.

Does it have the posi rear end?

I'd walk away from this car just becuase of the body. It's not a disaster, just a money pit to get it right. You're better off finding a car that's put together better.