1960 LeSabre - Manual Transmission

[Guest DinoBob]

Hello all. I've been registered for a while here but am a relatively new poster.

I just bought a 1960 LeSabre 2-door sedan with a 3-speed manual trans. I am curious about the manual, since I know Buick was supplying very few cars with manual transmissions in '59-'60. Does anyone have any information on this transmission?

I do not even have the car in my possession yet, it is coming from South Dakota in a couple of weeks. More to come.

Edited September 2, 2010 by DinoBob
misspelling (see edit history)

[Thriller]

Congrats on the acquisition. I can't wait for photos.

I'm afraid I can't help on the transmission - I have '61 information and the Dynaflow was standard on the LeSabre...it was the only transmission available in the full size cars according to the Preliminary Chassis service manual.

[JohnD1956]

Hey Dino, thanks for speaking up. I imagine that's one rare Buick but I don't have anything specific to add. Just an Hello and welcome to the board.

[Guest 60electra225]

From the 1960buick.com website

"Lastly, there was the lowly “Wildcat” engine. No numbers, just the name “Wildcat”. This was the standard and only engine available on cars with synchromesh transmission. It was rated at 210 horsepower and 340 lb-ft of torque. Since less than 1% of 1960 Buicks had manual transmissions, this engine is quite uncommon. I am uncertain what type of air cleaner identification this engine had."

[Guest 70 Electra]

Bob has already been in contact with me about this interesting car and has promised to provide air cleaner marking info so that I can update my website.

Like other forum members, I look forward to seeing some pictures!

[Guest DinoBob]

The LeSabre has made its way from Fort Thompson to Sioux Falls (driven) and will be picked up on Tuesday for its trip to New Jersey. I'm very excited. Its New Jersey "QQ"plates are waiting in my workshop for its arrival.

[Pete Phillips]

DinoBob,

The stick shift in a LeSabre is rare indeed. The 2-dr. sedan was Buick's lightest weight car in 1960, though it is still around 4000 pounds, I think. You will be very pleased with the responsiveness and acceleration that this car has, despite its having the lowest horsepower 364 V8 that Buick made in 1960. The difference between a Dynaflow equipped car and stick shift equipped car is like night and day. It will have good gas mileage on the highway, too.

You know that a requirement of owning one of these is that you have to take photos, write up an article, and send it in to the Buick Bugle magazine for publication!

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

[Guest DinoBob]

I will do so soon, but for now I am just completely beat as my car arrived last night at 10 P.M.. Since then, I have spent all but about 4 hours bonding with her. I just showered off layers of dirt and grime, and my hands really hurt.

The good: She runs great, nice glass, radio works, I disassembled and repaired the clock, and I have received a ridiculous amount of positive reinforcement about my choice. The rockers, doors, and front fenders are great, and so is the chrome.

The bad: The "rust-free" body has a few areas of rust including one frightfully ugly hole on the UPPER left quarter panel. Also, the "great" tires are dry-rotted menaces to road safety, and every hose, vacuum line, and moveable part is in need of replacement or lubrication. The interior is a disaster but I knew that already (dash is very nice though).

Now, for the weird part.

I was going to have the car delivered today (Monday). The truck driver and I had agreed to this. Reason was that Saturday was the Jewish holiday and Sunday I had tickets to see the Yankees and Orioles at Camden Yards, 150 miles south of my home in Jersey.

So, my brother-in-law and I are tooling to Baltimore in his Lexus, jabbering our heads off about his and that. About 10 miles from the Inner Harbor of Baltimore, the talk turns to my arriving car. Now, he knows nothing about the classic car hobby, so I explained everything about the car's acquisition. When we got to the part about transport, he asked me if the car was being driven to NJ. I said, "No, it's being hauled from South Dakota on an open carrier." He was trying to figure out what I meant by open carrier when I saw one coming in the other direction. I looked over at it and prepared to use it as an example, when I realized:

I was looking at my 1960 LeSabre. It was on the very carrier I was intending to use as an example.

I felt like a basket of snakes had been dumped down my shirt. It was the strangest coincidence I have ever experienced in my life. 140 miles from home, not at all on the route from South Dakota to NJ, I "bump into" my new car.

After several incredulous phone calls to my folks and wife, we arrived, and I placed a call to the truck driver. I said, "So, coming through Baltimore today"? He said, "Yes, how did you know?". I said, "I saw you drive by in the other direction! I'm headed to Baltimore. " He had done an early morning dropoff in DC and was on his way up to NJ to do some other dropoffs and call it a day.

And so, with a huge laugh, it was decided that my car would arrive Sunday night. It was a tremendously surreal experience, as I have waited over a decade for my next classic, since selling my 1960 Cadillac. The car looked huge, because I was so used to seeing it on my PC screen. I washed the car at about 12:30 AM last night, in my driveway, and was up until about 3 doing odds and ends, putting the plates on, and disassembling and repairing the clock.

My dad and I spent today doing things like an oil change, new battery cables, fuel hoses, heater hoses, lubing everything in sight, and of course, driving her around a bit. She's LOUD- a hole in the intermediate pipe- and the front seat would make a great medieval torture device, but it was awesome. My dad and I share a great bond thanks to cars, and working with him on the car today was a dream come true. He's up in years and a cancer survivor- I was very aware that I wanted to get a car while he was still here and able to enjoy it with me.

If you have read this long, I applaud and thank you for paying me the courtesy of allowing me to impart to you my joy and excitement at finally getting my car. Pictures to come after I get some rest.

Edited September 21, 2010 by DinoBob (see edit history)

[Guest Thomas Lord]

Great story Bob! What an amazing coincidence.

Now get some rest.

I remember looking at file photos of a 1960 LeSabre 2-door sedan in my older brother's Buick Bugle magazine. You probably have the only one in New Jersey.

Incidently, my older brother owned a 1971 LeSabre with 3-speed syncromesh on the column, from 2003-2007. When he sold it, it went to northern Europe!

[Guest DinoBob]

Well, the car needs more work than I initially thought, so I am swallowing that a bit. There's some undisclosed rust, and the door panels and rear side panels are not really as good as I thought they were. There's just a lot to be done. But, it does run well, drives OK, and I know that there is much I can do on my own to make the car a lot better.

The air cleaner is unmarked, just like the "standard" Wildcat engine. That's for you, '70 Electra.

The car has single speed wipers and no washers, no hazard flashers, but it does have a clock, Sonomatic radio, deluxe steering wheel, and full wheel covers.

Pics coming soon, I promise.

[Mark Shaw]

Before and after pics I hope....

[Guest DinoBob]

Well, there are no "after" pics at the moment. I have not really done much of anything in terms of cosmetic work. We did heater hoses, cleaned up the battery and added a holddown, changed the oil, and just did some other little things (fixed a mouse-chewed horn wire, for example). On Thursday, I will do a full tuneup - points, plugs, dwell and timing, idle adjustment, fix the choke stove, clean the carb, and most important, fix the hole in the intermediate pipe. There's a small but very loud hole where the hanger bracket clamps the pipe, so we're going to gas-weld it. I'm also going to have a good look at the brakes, even though they feel mighty good, and vacuum up a bit, for what it's worth. As rough as she looks right now, I am taking her to a show on Saturday, a small but fun show that I have run for seven years, here in Milltown, New Jersey.

I'll have some pics soon. It rained yesterday and today, so I did not get a chance to take any as I intended.

[Guest shorttimer]

Its always good to see another 60 owner on the board.

There is a wealth of knowledge about these cars here and over on the B59 forums, so don't let some unanticipated issues discourage you. And if I've learned one thing about these cars, they all have more rust than anticipated.

Congrats on the new purchase and I look forward to seeing some pictures. - James

[Guest DinoBob]

Thanks! Let's hear more about your '60.

When I take mine to the show on Saturday, it will hopefully be parked next to another '60 that lived down the street from me my entire childhood. The original owner's son now has the car (the son is 72 so that tells you that these cars are getting up there in years) and I admired that car an awful lot as a kid.

Something I noticed - my left turn signal indicator on the dash appears to be white light, while the right lights up in green. I am guessing that perhaps there is a color filter in the cluster that came loose?

[buick5563]

I am guessing that perhaps there is a color filter in the cluster that came loose?

Yep.

I would suggest living with it until you are ready to pull the dash apart. I used some plastic I got at a hobby store for the high beam indicator on my 55.

[Guest DinoBob]

I am planning on yanking the cluster over the winter so I will address it then.

[buick5563]

You may get lucky and find the piece loose and laying on a horizontal portion of the back of the dash. The piece gets installed in a cutout, and then the surrounding metal gets GENTLY peened to hold it in place. Remember, superglue discolors (read: ruins) plastic!

[Guest DinoBob]

Here are several shots of the Buick revealing both good and bad. There's a special guest in a couple of the photos.

Enjoy!

[Guest DinoBob]

[Guest DinoBob]

[buick5563]

Very nice, enjoy!

I believe one of those is a Girls on Buicks pic.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

WOW. Nice car!! Enjoy it.

Ben

[Guest papaw]

Nice looking car. Love the color combo!

[Matt Harwood]

What a cool, unusual car! I love the oddballs, and a manual transmission in that one makes it very unique. Congratulations on the purchase and I think you'll have a great time enjoying it while you fix it. Have fun!

[John_Maine]

Speaking of '71's with a 3 speed manual, a fellow here where I live went to Montana, bought one and drove it home to Maine. It was a base LeSabre, black in and out, with non-71 wheel covers. It did have the standard dog dish caps in the trunk. It had a non-original cloth interior and a '72 deck lid because the original owner didn't like the louvers that were on the '71. Had an AM radio, PS and PB. It was in really decent shape. Anyway, the owner kept it a couple of years, then put it in the Bugle with a ridiculous price. He finally sold it but this summer, I learned it was on a car lot for sale somewhere around Boothbay Harbor, ME. I'd love to go buy it, but my wife hates my '71 LeSabre Custom and I don't want to think about what she'd say if I had two of them.

Edited October 1, 2010 by John_Maine (see edit history)

[Pete Phillips]

Wonderful car and the stick shifts by 1960 are SO RARE! How odd that this has the deluxe steering wheel in a standard shift 2-dr. sedan. I'll have to wait for Greg Cockerill to explain that one!

I have a roll of translucent green plastic wrap that I use when the green lens is missing from the turn signal indicators on the dash. It took some effort and going to several different stores to find it, and I had to buy a whole 5-foot roll of the stuff when I only needed less than a square inch! So, if you would like me to snip off a few inches for you for use on that '60, just send me a self-addressed, stamped envelope and I will give you some.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

PO Box 1247

Leonard, TX 75452

(new address as of Oct.)

[JohnD1956]

How great a car! Stick, two door, the rest is just extra. What a find! Does the car also have speed alert? a buzzer that goes off at a preset speed? If not, what's the number inthe square block to the left of the speedometer?

[Guest DinoBob]

I'm willing to bet that the green filter is in the dash. I'll take a look for it over the winter sometime when I pull the dash apart further to do things like replace the lighter and clean the rusty ashtray, paint the turn signal switch, repair the steering wheel, and other such miscellany. But, if I do not find it, I will take you up on that.

Another way I discovered to do that is to print the the color to a laser printer transparency. You can choose any shade you like, adjust, print, cut, and fit.

So far I have done some cool little things. The dash lights are all working, the headlight switch has been replaced and is now smooth and working great, the wipers are not working (dirty terminals were all that was wrong, apparently), the radio is repaired, the clock is repaired, and of course I have done a bunch of stuff under the hood (hoses, etc...)

Tomorrow she visits her first show.

Edited October 2, 2010 by DinoBob
Added Content (see edit history)

[Guest shorttimer]

Nice! That looks like a great car and a great color combo. Plus with a stick, manual brakes and manual steering, you get a full body workout every time you drive it!

The no-option cars from this era are pretty scarce, so its great to see another survivor. I can't remember the last time I saw one of the deluxe horn buttons that did not have the "Power Steering" lettering on it. Too cool.

[Guest 70 Electra]

Bob,

Thanks for posting the pictures. You've really cleaned the ol' gal up nicely....this looks to be a very straight and unmolested car! The interior shots provide a rare view of the features that are unique to only the 4411 2-dr sedan model.

I find this to be a very curiously-equipped car. Usually a LeSabre 2-door sedan is a fairly spartan car--after all, it was the lowest-priced model and came only with a rubber mat floor covering, and stripped down door trim (armrests, window cranks). However this one has a number of options that are frequently absent even on the plusher and more expensive models---yet at the same time, it is absent some of the most fundamental and popular options (power steering, power brakes, and automatic):

1. The presence of the clock suggests the car has the Accessory Group. This included a clock, a trunk light, and the polished stainless steel license frame (the frame was standard on all Invicta, Electra, and 225 models). The license frame frequently gets lost over the years, but if the car has no trunk light either, this would indicate the clock was installed as a stand-alone accessory.

2. The Safety Group included back-up lamps, a speed-minder buzzer, a warning light for the parking brake, and a courtesy/map light above the radio.

3. The deluxe steering wheel, as Pete Phillips pointed out, is optional. The standard wheel is a hideous white affair that is seldom seen on any 1960 Buicks. However, when it IS seen, it is usually on a 4411 2dr sedan!

4. The white roof is an extra-cost option

5. Although the car has full-wheel covers, I wonder if it might originally have had the standard small dog-dish caps and later upgraded by dealer or owner. The reason is the body-colored wheels. All cars with "beanie" hubcaps received body-colored wheels, whereas cars equipped with full wheel covers got black wheels. Technically body-colored wheels were a no-cost option on cars with full wheel covers, but that option is extremely unusual.

6. The radio, of course, is an option. However I have seen a lot of strippo 4411's with the radio block-off plate.

7. One option I am surprised is missing is the chrome drip rail (option P1), or the chrome window pillars in combination with the drip rail (option P2). Although not built this way, these parts would really dress up this car if Bob should elect to install them.

8. It does not have the 2-speed wipers (with washers!), which was a stand-alone option. Not really unusual, as many 60 LeSabres left the factory with the standard 1-speed no-washer wipers. Sounds lame, but remember that compared to the vacuum wipers of recent times, even 1-speed electric wipers were considered quite adequate.

[Thriller]

Neat car.

I'm not sure if it is the lighting, but the paint appears a bit on the dull side - it looks oxidized. A clay bar and / or some paint cleaner followed by polish and wax ought to dress up the car nicely, especially considering it is inexpensive and very rewarding.

Good luck with the car.

[Guest DinoBob]

Thriller, that's a good idea. But honestly, if you saw the paint in person, you would know why I have not done that. The paint is not merely dull- it's absolutely horrible, with deep lacquer checking and severe dulling and thinning all over. The sides are Ok and I do intend to clean them up, but the hood and trunk and upper surfaces are beyond improvement. I even tried wet-sanding the top of a fender and it didn't do much at all.

Greg, thanks so much for the information. The car does indeed have the Safety Group. But seemingly it does not have the full Accessory Group, as it does not have the trunk light.

While it does have the 1-speed wipers with no washer, I think it's curious that the wiper escutcheons have the washer nozzles. My buddy Ken's '59 Belair has the same wiper setup and he has nozzle-less pieces.

I have seen many cars with the stainless-wrapped door frames and it looks nice, I agree. But I am pretty fixed on leaving the car as it is equipped, as much as I'd like to have had that.

I was at a show yesterday and ran into someone I have known for a long time who has a '60 four-LeSabre. His dad bought it new, and he has preserved it very well. I enjoyed comparing the differences.

Thanks for the kind words all.

[lrlforfun]

OK Dino: Is power steering in your plans? Mitch

[Guest DinoBob]

While the manual steering is a real eye-opener after spening the last 20 years driving power-equipped cars, I don't think so. I am quickly becoming accustomed to the ins and outs of piloting a manually steered car, and I love the look on people's faces when I tell them that it is a stick with manual steering and brakes. Also, I love to leave things original as much as possible.

I do not know about the hubcaps and their originality. 70Electra makes a good point about the body-colored wheels. However, my buddy Ken and I were talking yesterday, and he has a relationship with some guys who worked at GM plants back in the '50s. He says that sometimes you have to throw out the book on how cars were equipped, because a car was often given whatever was left over at the end of the week, or month. If there were no beanie caps in the parts bin at the time when that car was rolling down the line, it could easily have received full caps. The guys working the line were far more interested in hearing the whistle blow so they could hit the tavern next to the plant for a few boilermakers.

If I found some documentation that proved otherwise, though, I would endeavor to get a set of dog-dish caps and replace them. I'm not the kind who intends to do a 100-point resto- I could not afford that sort of thing by any stretch, and I also like driving the car too much to fret over every hose clamp and bolt. However, I like as much original/correct stuff as can be accomplished within my budget.

I do intend to restore the interior to 100% correct stock - which is why it really bothers me that the rubber floor/carpet setup is not reproduced.

The fellow at the show with the '60 sedan is getting his trunk lining redone- he had the seats redone, did the carpet, and detailed underhood recently, and he feels that he wants to finish it off with new trunk lining. His lining looked perfectly acceptable to me, for a showy driver. He offered to give me the lining when the work is done, which is really cool, considering my lining was eaten by mice. :-(

[buick5563]

I like as much original/correct stuff as can be accomplished within my budget.

Why is this so hard to explain? You get it... Way to go Bob.

[Guest DinoBob]

Thanks.

Interestingly, the two outer screws that hold the horn "ring" on were missing, resulting in a horrible rattle while driving. I discovered that the screws from my discarded distributor rotor were the perfect length and thread size for these,and even had a perfect sized washer to anchor them in the steering wheel, which has deteriorated a bit around the holes.

I have been offered a very clean wheel for $150, which I may buy. I am not sure how I feel about tackling a wheel restoration. We'll see.

I do wonder about one other thing; The Sonomatic radio has a lamp in the left side. But the lamp seems ill-conceived- it lights up the buttons of the radio, especially the B and U, but does not really light the dial at all. Is this normal? Is there something missing in the radio which channels the light up to the dial?

[Guest DinoBob]

70Electra, I just remembered this detail: the night I got the car, I took the clock inside, disassembled it, and repaired it (simple; the points had gotten dirty and the clock just needed a spray of light lubricant/cleaner). When I opened it, a sticker fell out which indicated that it had been repaired by the Liberty Clock Company of St. Paul, MN in 1962. So I guess these clocks were acting up even when the cars were new.

I'd love to know if that clock came with the car or not. It would seem, though, that build sheets are not available for these cars, sadly.

[Guest Thomas Lord]

I really like the look of that 2-tone color scheme. It reminds me of my first car, a '66 Bel Air sedan, which had a cream colored top.

I was just doing a random search, and this Buick came up: another 4411 sedan! It doesn't have the coolness factor of the manual transmission though. The ad has some interior photos for comparison. 1960 Buick LeSabre 2 dr. Sedan - Auto & RV Publications

Edited October 10, 2010 by Thomas Lord (see edit history)

[Guest Thomas Lord]

I just realized I should save the photos for brevety before that ad expires. It'll give me some practice on posting pics.

[Guest Thomas Lord]

This one had no back-up lamps.