High end cars of the 30s on back

[junkyardjeff]

I thought I read somewhere that alot of the high end cars came out of the factory basicly just as a chassis and then the buyer took it to their coach builder of choice for the body and sometimes they would have multiple bodies for different times of the year,is this the way it was done way back when.

[LINC400]

If you bought a Duesenberg, you purchased the engine and chassis and then took it to a coachbuilder for the body. Although I would imagine the dealership or factory took care of the arrangements. You could pick from a catalogue of body styles or have one custom designed. I have not heard of seasonal offerings for bodies. I would imagine it would work this way for any coachbuilt car.

[poci1957]

Hello Gentlemen, the seasonal body was common with rich owners in the pre-Classic era (1925 and back).

At the birth of the auto industry even volume automakers produced the chassis and mechanicals and outsourced the bodies. Remember, early bodies had wood framework and required finishing and upholstery that made a carriage maker or someone else better suited to handling them. For high end cars the owner would select a chassis of their choice and then contract for a custom body built to their specifications, often at great expense.

Some high end customers would indeed buy a summer body and a winter body, and the dealer or coachbuilder had a service where they would make the switch in the spring and fall, and then refinish and store the off season body until the next swap. I think this was mostly practiced in large East Coast cities.

By the late 1920s this practice was reduced as bodies were more integral to the lines of the car and harder to swap. Automakers (notably Packard) began offering suitably luxurious semi-production bodies that they provided to keep the business in house and control what kind of bodies were seen on their cars. Some earlier bodies commissioned by eccentric rich owners could be a little odd. The stories of custom bodies are many and fascinating.

As Linc400 says, every Model J Duesenburg was ordered in chassis form and the body selected separately, either from an outside builder or through a coachbuilder contracted through the company or dealer. Much like a heavy truck or conversion van of today. Really interesting stuff. Todd

[Steve_Mack_CT]

LaGrande bodied Duesenbergs are actually "factory" bodies designed and built under the direction of Gordon Buehrig, who also did design on these cars for other coachbuilders such as Derham, etc. (Not that these are in any way lesser cars!!)

Edited February 23, 2010 by West Peterson
LaGrande (see edit history)

[poci1957]

Correct, but the bodies were still not actually "built" by Duesenburg itself but by a body company such as (I understand) Union City or Limousine Body that were contracted by Duesenburg to produce them at their order under the LaGrande label. As you state, they were hardly lesser bodies, especially with Buehrig designing them!

[West Peterson]

But I think both of those were owned under the Cord empire, were they not?

[Richard Lichtfel]

Peerless cars were available with factory bodies, Hayes bodies, or you could buy the chassis and have a custom coach put on it. Some people liked their custom body so well that they would buy a new chassis and have there old body installed on it. The Boston Peerless agency would build a custom body to anyones design. They even built one in 1914 with a head light that turned with the steering.

RHL

[poci1957]

Hmmm, they may have been Cord owned at that.......Union City or a later version of them did truck bodies up into the late 1990s and Limousine did something else later that I do not recall, but they were at the very least closely associated with ACD. There were a few others too that I do not recall that I think also made "LeGrande" bodies. Todd

[Dave@Moon]

But I think both of those were owned under the Cord empire, were they not?

I don't think Union City was, but 2 others who supplied LaGrande bodies were: Central Manufacturing and A.H. Walker. Union City did built the bulk of the LaGrande production, however.

Union City Body Co. - Union City Body Company - UCBC - Ford Buses - Coachbult.com

[poci1957]

Some people liked their custom body so well that they would buy a new chassis and have there old body installed on it.

Absolutely! And the stories are legendary in their excess. The CCCA magazine years ago had a great article about the Derham coachbuilder in Philadelphia. They had one customer who had their Duesenburg body built with a sliding window in the right rear, so he could spit tobacco out with a faster opening motion than cranking down.

The story was also written that a wealthy family hired a chauffer for their young daughter who could only drive a Model T, so they commissioned a town car body for a Model T---a $5000 custom body on a $400 car. According to the story anyway. Todd

[poci1957]

I don't think Union City was, but 2 others who supplied LaGrande bodies were: Central Manufacturing and A.H. Walker. Union City did built the bulk of the LaGrande production, however.

THAT is right, thanks Dave, Central Mfg was the in house body plant I was thinking of.

[Rusty_OToole]

In the early days meaning pre 1910 it was common for expensive cars to come as a bare chassis. The body would be made to order by a separate body company.

Most of these body companies started as makers of horse drawn carriages for the rich. They switched over to making car bodies when cars came in.

They soon started offering factory made, or at least factory approved, bodies.

Pierce Arrow started making their own bodies in 1904. Rolls Royce was about the last to do this, they did not start making bodies until 1946. Up until then all their cars were bodied by outside coachbuilders.

The factory catalog bodies were made similar to the custom made ones. In most cases they were better and cheaper, while the buyer could order his car custom finished in any paint, upholstery fabric, accessories etc.

At the same time you could order just the chassis and have a body custom made if you desired something really different.

I believe Cadillac still offers bare chassis to the custom trade. Practically all of these are used to build hearses by specialist hearse makers.

[Rusty_OToole]

Now about the interchangeable bodies.

Again we have to go back to 1910 or thereabouts. In those days a high grade chassis could cost $3000 to $5000 while the body cost $500 to $2000. So some people had 2 bodies made, an open one for summer and a closed one for winter. They had a block and tackle in the garage so one body could be lifted off and the other installed with the changing seasons.

As bodies got heavier and more complicated, and cars became cheaper this became impractical. It was never very common. I don't think anyone did this after 1920.

Something I have seen, is where a custom built body was taken off one chassis and put on a new one when the old one wore out.

There have been some odd examples of this like a small limousine type body taken off a French Renault chassis of about 1915, and put on a V8 Ford chassis in 1935.

In this particular case the owner lived in New York. She had this dishy little chauffeured limo that was just the ticket for buzzing around town. When the chassis wore out and parts became impossible to get, she just had the body refurbished and put onto the Ford frame.

At that time you could buy a Ford chassis for about $400 or $450.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[LINC400]

I believe Cadillac still offers bare chassis to the custom trade. Practically all of these are used to build hearses by specialist hearse makers.

The last year Cadillac offered a commercial chassis was 1984. They now offer a "coachbuilder package". But that is not a chassis. It is a stripped down sedan with some heavy duty parts that can be be used to make a hearse, limo, or flower car. Lincoln offers that also. Prior to 1984 but after 1954 when Packard offered its last commercial chassis, Cadillac was the only domestic to offer a commercial chassis. That is why most hearses, ambulances, flower cars, limos, etc. were Cadillacs. Because otherwise you had to buy a complete car, and then then throw out out half the parts. When Cadillac discontinued its commercial chassis, there was no advantage to buying a Cadillac over any other car for conversion. That is why you now see Lincoln hearses and limos as a much more common sight (and Hummers and Chrysler 300's).

Edited February 23, 2010 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[LINC400]

Absolutely! And the stories are legendary in their excess. The CCCA magazine years ago had a great article about the Derham coachbuilder in Philadelphia. They had one customer who had their Duesenburg body built with a sliding window in the right rear, so he could spit tobacco out with a faster opening motion than cranking down.

The story was also written that a wealthy family hired a chauffer for their young daughter who could only drive a Model T, so they commissioned a town car body for a Model T---a $5000 custom body on a $400 car. According to the story anyway. Todd

While some customers might have had their old body installed on a new chassis, I think it was much more common to just put updated fenders, grilles, etc. on the the car so that your $5000 car that took 8 months to build didn't look dated after the new model came out 4 months later.

Interesting about the summer and winter bodies. I don't think I have heard that before.

[oldcarfudd]

Not all car builders who offered interchangeable bodies were high end. Bruce McCalley's book, "Model T Ford, the Car that Changed the World", reproduces the 1910 Ford catalogue. Under the picture of the coupe, after describing how comfortable a coupe is in the winter, it says: "As all Model T bodies are interchangeable, a touring car or roadster body may be substituted for the coupe at the end of the winter season."

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[poci1957]

(and Hummers and Chrysler 300's).

Yuck. Someone wrote a while ago that it is hard to remember back when limousines were considered dignified and stately and they are now most often just a big vulgar taxicab.

OR someone else observed that a limousine once nonverbally said "I am somebody" and now it says "I am somebody with 50 bucks".

[junkyardjeff]

I think it was in Vintage trucks that there was a article about a model t school bus that during the summer months it got a truck body and when it was time for school the bus body got installed,I wish car were made now that could be changed around for the seasons but now I just have different cars for the seasons.

Not all car builders who offered interchangeable bodies were high end. Bruce McCalley's book, "Model T Ford, the Car that Changed the World", reproduces the 1910 Ford catalogue. Under the picture of the coupe, after describing how comfortable a coupe is in the winter, it says: "As all Model T bodies are interchangeable, a touring car or roadster body may be substituted for the coupe at the end of the winter season."

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[old car fan]

The builders started early but repros are ongoing

[Rusty_OToole]

In another thread about the rarest car you owned, someone mentions owning a 1909 Mason model 12 that has two bodies, truck and 5 passenger touring.

[Rusty_OToole]

About the Model T limousine. I have heard a similar story from England. A well to do, elderly lady had a gardener who doubled as coachman. When cars came in she wanted to change from a carriage to a car, but the only car the gardener could drive was a Model T. So she had a small limousine body built on a Model T chassis.

As she just puttered around town, visiting friends and calling on her dressmaker, it served her very well. Any longer journey was made by train.

This is not as strange as it sounds. The Model T had a unique control system with the gears shifted by pressing pedals on the floor, and a hand throttle on the steering wheel.

Driving a Model T was not like driving any other car.

They were the most popular car by far, and many people learned to drive in a Model T. If they were middle aged or older they found it hard to unlearn old habits when it came to driving some other make.