Guest blaze Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Just pick up this Franklin. Was stated that it was a 1931 when bought. When I went through every thing I found markings on hood where someone was selling prior. Its says 1933. Now not sure. Where do you find the vin tag on this model. Only got the body, frame and grill. Is this worth putting together or are the parts to hard to find, I know its on the rarer side. Your input would be appreciated.Thank you Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 From what I can see, it is a 1933 Olympic Series 18A. I have the convertible coupe version of the same car. It was Franklin's junior car, and is essentially a Reo Flying Cloud fitted with a Franklin engine and hood-front. They are great cars. The data plate should be on the firewall on the driver's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 The Reo was a high quality car of the time and so was the Franklin. That car would be super rare but definitely worth restoring if you can.Surprising things happen. It is just possible someone has one of those cars that just needs the body. You never know your luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) Welcome to the AACA Forum! I never knew Franklin and REO were connected, guess they were both just trying to survive. Was this a parts car or did someone just start scrapping it bit by bit? Hope you can save it. Is the body made of aluminum? Edited November 15, 2009 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blaze Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Thanks for your thoughts. The body is made of steel. Super clean also. Frame is in excellent shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blaze Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 SteveFrom the little I have read on this site you seem like the Franklin expert. Thanks for replying. Will the body doesn't have a tag on firewall. I can see where it attaches to. No title and no tag. Don't even no where to start. I was hoping they werestamped in the frame. Was actually counting on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blaze Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I didn't have in part of the assault of the car. This is the way I found it. Sorry I don't know any history of car. I couldn't pass up this car being this clean. Even if 90% is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olympic Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Definately worth saving. Here's 2 pictures of what you could have when you get it finished. This is my 33 Olympic, 29000 mile unrestored car. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Blaze,Thanks for the kind words, but I never claim to be an expert in anything. You will find the Reo number stamped on the frame, but that won't tell you anything. Franklin Olympics are somewhat rare with about 1500 built. However, there are many sedans that are waiting restorations and unfortunately, a few have been hacked into street rods. It appears that most of what makes this car a Franklin is missing. If the body is clean, there are many Olympic sedans out there with bodies that are really sad. Maybe you could make one car out of two. To hunt down everything to build this car would be a huge undertaking. If you are interested, there are a few Olympic sedans currently available for not too much money. Here are some pictures of what I have. I have a long way to go, but with only about 10 Olympic convertibles left, I'll have something special when it's done. By the way, the Franklin Olympic had the highest power to weight ratio of any car of 1933 except for the Duesenberg SJ. The Reo had about 65hp, Franklin stuffed their 100hp engine into the car to make quite a little hot rod in its own right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Steve, If REO shared bodies with Franklin were the chassis the same? Could this be a REO with a Franklin hood & grill? Not trying to be a wise guy, just looking at things from a different angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blaze Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Definately worth saving. Here's 2 pictures of what you could have when you get it finished. This is my 33 Olympic, 29000 mile unrestored car. DaveDaveDo you have a picture of the pillar between the two doors? After looking at my pieces I have the pillars, but the pillar itself is missing the belt moulding.Is that the way they were built or am I missing more. Thanks Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I can not tell you ,but i do think Steve is the (expert) Sorry steve,but you are the one to go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Steve, If REO shared bodies with Franklin were the chassis the same? Could this be a REO with a Franklin hood & grill? Not trying to be a wise guy, just looking at things from a different angle.The entire car essentially was a Reo except the engine, hood, grill, and other minor trim (hubcaps, instrument cluster...). Franklin reported did the entire tooling for under $5,000. The hardest part was a specially cast bell housing. Other parts were really hacked (the air cleaner housing was mashed with a hammer to clear the steering box and the front splash apron was cut with snips. They are all smashed and cut a little different depending on who was working the line that day.This could in fact be a Reo, without the guts, it essentially is a Reo. However, I think more Franklin Olympics survived than Reo Flying Clouds. My car has had its pedigree questioned by a notable Franklin "authority," but I have the original data plate with the serial number that clearly identifies it as an Olympic convertible.As for the door pillars, they are mostly hidden by the doors when they are closed, so there is no belt trim on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blaze Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Dave Just blew up your pictures above. I see the two doors meet with the pillar behind the both of them unseen when doors are shut. Should look before I type. Thanks for pictures, you must of known I was going to need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blaze Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thanks Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thanks Steve! I really enjoy learning something new about old cars. Does the Franklin Club look for the bashed & hacked parts you mentioned or are over restored parts accepted. It would be interesting to see one of these cars judged by AACA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olympic Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 To add to the confusion, the body was built by Hayes Body of Grand Rapids, Mich. The same body was used by the Marmon 8. So you have 3 different marques using the same body. The Hayes body plate was on the left door frame. It would be interesting to see if it is still there. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olympic Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Just checked my pictures and here is a shot of the Hayes body plate on my Olympic. It's mounted on the wood framing so I bet it is missing from your body.As Steve mentioned, the air cleaner "Supercharger" housing is mashed in to clear the steering box and he inspected my front panel and found that it had a rolled edge so someone was a little more careful with mine. Another thing I have noticed is that the position of the horns changed over time. The earliest Olympics had the horns placed closer to the back resulting in them being damaged by the long Franklin hood. Some time the horns were re-located ahead avoiding the edge of the hood. Was this done at Franklin or at Hayes? The REO had a shorter hood and had no problem with the location of the horns. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nancy DeWitt Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'd never heard of an Olympic until I saw this '33 at the J.A. Cooley Museum in San Diego last month (parked next to a 1912 Cartercar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Another thing I have noticed is that the position of the horns changed over time. The earliest Olympics had the horns placed closer to the back resulting in them being damaged by the long Franklin hood. Some time the horns were re-located ahead avoiding the edge of the hood. Was this done at Franklin or at Hayes? The REO had a shorter hood and had no problem with the location of the horns. DaveHi Dave,The horns are mounted to the headlight stanchions, which are relocated from their original position on the fenders due to the Franklin's longer hood. (Does yours have the plugs in the fender from the original headlight mounting?) This modification would have been done in Syracuse. The Hayes people would have had nothing to do with the fenders, those were made in Lansing, as was most of the car. I have heard that Franklin painted the cars, although I don't know if that makes any sense. I also heard that Franklin was paying about $400 per car to Reo for the unfinished cars and selling them for $1385-1500. Not a bad deal. It could have saved them if they could have built more. The 18B uses a different horn than the 18A, maybe it was changed because of hood bashing, but a more annoying problem is the hood hitting the headlights, which are much more expensive to replace or repair. The 18A horn has the outlet under the bell, while the 18B horn has the trumpet coming out the front of the bell. (The 18B horn sounds much nicer too.) I've seen some Olympics with actual holes in the headlights from the hood being dropped on them. Edited November 20, 2009 by Steve Braverman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Wow! What a concept, having fun with cars. Maybe I should start looking for a 1930 Pursuit.This is IMPORTANT: The H.H. Franklin Club does NOT judge cars. I believe that not having a competitive feel is what makes it such a collegial group. The H.H. Franklin Club encourages enjoyment of the the cars and company (both senses). Bashing of parts to get them to fit is par for the course and is fine as long as it all works to the owners satisfaction. The AACA judging manual may express other opinions, but it is not part of The H.H. Franklin Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Wow! What a concept, having fun with cars. Maybe I should start looking for a 1930 Pursuit.I wouldn't hold your breath. The Pursuit is the holy grail of Franklins. This one just popped up on eBay. Having two series 10 cars in the family, I can say they are probably the most fun to drive. This one is probably worth about half of what he's asking.Other Makes:eBay Motors (item 330378080504 end time Nov-26-09 14:59:39 PST) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 See, I can pick them can't I, and you thought I only collected Franklin steering boxes & tube front axles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I was looking at a photo of the red & black Pursuit that is/was in the Harrah Collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) The Red & black pursuit from the HAC is beautiful. However, the 1931 Pursuit that 1910_Anon is referring to is very well-known to me. I'm not sure why is was referred to an "odd collection of parts," as it is really a very correct and complete car. It was repainted in the late 40s in an unfortunate color, but it remains a very solid and authentic Pursuit. I have driven it many times, and it's fantastic. Edited November 18, 2009 by Steve Braverman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The Red & black pursuit from the HAC is beautiful. However, the 1931 Pursuit that Bouvard is referring to is very well-known to me. I'm not sure why is was referred to an "odd collection of parts," as it is really a very correct and complete car. It was repainted in the late 40s in an unfortunate color, but it remains a very solid and authentic Pursuit. I have driven it many times, and it's fantastic.Ummmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blaze Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Hey SteveIf its a Reo body did they come with franklin vin tags or Reo tags? Would help in my search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hey SteveIf its a Reo body did they come with franklin vin tags or Reo tags? Would help in my search.The car came with a Franklin Data plate. There is no Reo identification anywhere on the car, but there is a Reo number stamped on the chassis. As Dave pointed out, there is a Hayes body tag on the floor near the driver's door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Here is a photo of a Franklin Pursuit to satisfy Mr. Petersonhttp://www.franklincar.org/INFO/1930Series145Pusuit.htmSomebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the car that was rolled over at the Trek a few years ago when its brakes failed. Very sad, but nobody was killed.I couldn't find a photo of the red & black car from HAC. Perhaps 1937HD has one? Edited November 19, 2009 by Steve Braverman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Here is a photo of the car that 1910_Anon was referring to:http://www.franklincar.org/Trek03/03trek132.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) This has turned into one of the nicest threads on the Forum in a long time! We're all learning stuff about a car that many don't know a lot about, and having fun. My camera hasn't been able to take good photos for months now, so if someone can improve this photo please do so, this is the Harrah Pursuit. I love black and red cars, rear mounted spair tires, and BLACKWALL tires.:D Were the chrome wheels correct or a Harrah upgrade in the restoration? That rolled edge around the front seat is a nice feature. How many of these cars are out there? Bob Edited November 19, 2009 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) According to the Franklin Club Registry, there are seven 1930 Pursuits, and only the one 1931 Pursuit pictured above. There have also been a few replica bodies made, one in steel by Tom Hubbard and placed on a deluxe chassis (which was never available) and a couple of fiberglass bodies made in California by Rich Alford.I agree with Bob on the rear spare and blackwalls. As for the chrome wheels, many people do it, and it may have been available, but they look tacky to me, and I've never seen them on an original car. Edited November 20, 2009 by Steve Braverman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blaze Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Seeing how Franklin owners are a tight community. Maybe you knew the previous owner. I bought it from a guy in Baltimore MD. He did nothing with it. But he bought it from A estate sale in PA. . The guy from PA was piecing it together when he passed away. Like to know how much was separated at sale. I don't know how long ago it was, But it had to be at least a couple of years since sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I was at an estate sale near Allentown about ten years ago, and there were two Olympic sedans that were sold. One went to a guy who was supposedly going to street rod it, this might be that car. Both cars were very complete and solid.There was a ton of parts sold at the auction. I got a few Olympic wheels and other goodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Steve Braverman, Thanks for the photo of the Franklin Pursuit. I had never heard of one until this week. Quite an automobile!Olympic, You said that three companies used the same body. You might want to add a fourth to the list: Peerless. Though I have never seen it mentioned anywhere else, the Hayes entry on the coachbuilt.com site says that the Marmon Big 8 had the same body as the 1930-1932 Peerless Custom Eight. The text said something to the effect that the public was not likely to notice similar body lines on cars, because they usually just looked at the radiator shell or company logo to tell the cars apart. Upon re-reading the listing for Hayes at: www.coachbuilt.com, it says the Marmon and Peerless had one body...and the '32-'34 Reo Flying Cloud, and '33-'34 Franklin Olympic shared another. Edited November 19, 2009 by jeff_a (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blaze Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 SteveI know someone selling a cowl. And before I waste money on cowl. And make my car correct should (If I read this right) the tag should read 83-?????L11 for my 1933 sedan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 SteveI know someone selling a cowl. And before I waste money on cowl. And make my car correct should (If I read this right) the tag should read 83-?????L11 for my 1933 sedan?Yes, an 18A sedan will have a number that begins with 183- and end with L11. However, what are your intentions with this car? If you are considering trying to collect everything to make it back into a car, I would suggest looking for another complete car in rough condition to use as as a parts car. There are many out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89REATTAJIM Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I saw this 1927? in Cedar Key, Fl in July of this year. Does it belong to one of you guys?........... Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I wish it were mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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