GPS/Audio Question.

[Guest Craig57]

Looking to eliminate the tape deck on my 89 and go for a GPS unit in its place. Any suggestions?:confused:

[DAVES89]

What I did was gut the cassette deck and installed the GPS on the deck. I drilled a hole in the cassette deck face to run the lead thru the cassette deck and out the back of the dash to my power bar.

It worked well, until I had a different cassette deck rebuilt. I then mounted the Garmin GPS on the Instrument Cluster's trim panel on the ignition side.

I never thought anyone would be interested in doing this so I threw the gutted deck away.

You seem like you are willing to try things Craig, maybe you can get more of a factory look by designing something differently.

Another reason why I went away from the GPS in the cassette area is that you are looking down at it from an angle and the display isn't as clear from that angle. It is also harder to program from that angle. [The '90/91 Reattas have a better place for this upgrade. I believe Dave Pannel did that].

I like having it mounted on the dash much better, not so much asthetics, but practicality. Keep in mind I am NOT using a Reatta steering wheel, but a Chev. Lumina wheel in one and a van conversion wheel in the other. It is very easy to read my display as these steering wheel spokes are in a different position then the Reatta spokes.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

How much are you willing to spend?

[Guest Craig57]

Whatever it takes to do it right, within reason. What do you have in mind?

[DAVES89]

There are some pretty cool stereo units at places like Best Buy that are like tv screens. They have all the latest musical upgrades as well as GPS. Cost $700.00 and up. I looked hard at them, but passed. I thought it would be an excellant "look" for the '88/89 Reatta.

[Guest Craig57]

In a perfect world I'd like to be able to kill 2 birds with one stone. A gps that has a cd/dvd and or Ipod connection.

[Guest Craig57]

After some research it looks like some gps units come with a built in mp3 player. Also it seems like some also have a fm transmitter to play the music thru the existing car stereo. Am I on the right track here? Thanks!

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

I would go with Kenwood. They have a screen that would work great, always have high quality sound, and very intergrateable. This is the best option I have came up with, and I will be using it after my RX7 is finished.

here is a link

Kenwood - CarPortal?

[handmedownreatta]

i love it...

[Guest Craig57]

I think the Kenwood may be overkill for what I'm trying to do. Is anyone here using a GPS with mp3? Thanks!

[Guest Bugler]

I use a Jensen VM 9312 HD/DVD/Nav. It's an all in one unit with a decent size flip out video screen. It's a single DIN unit and pretty cheap. Easy to use and good quality.

edit: HD radio is pretty cool too.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

I use a Jensen VM 9312 HD/DVD/Nav. It's an all in one unit with a decent size flip out video screen. It's a single DIN unit and pretty cheap. Easy to use and good quality.

edit: HD radio is pretty cool too.

Will not really work on the 88/89

[Guest Bugler]

The screen is too big to use an adapter plate? I don't know. I have a 91.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

The 88/89 have the touch screen, so unless you want to loose it, there is no real "din" option for a flip out. you can add a screen or radio in the tape area, but bake sure it is what you want to do. I added a screen and a dvd player, with the option to add any other video and adio I would like to. and it all plays throught the stock set up.

[Guest Craig57]

Daniel,What set up are you using?

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

I am using the factory aux in/ tape in puts (for the audio). With some added aplification after the factory stereo. The for the DVD/CD player I am using a half din DVD player (about $120) mounter in-between the driver seat and center counsel. This feeds a 7" raw screen (I pulled out of a add-on screen from a portable dvd player) mounted with two hex head screws in the tape player position. I also control the DVD player from the touch screen via a steering wheel control interface ($80). All, with out the amps, speaker, and subs, ran me around $300 and can be installed in couple hours.

[Fox W.]

In 2004 I took the tape players input for external audio.. now I have that running to this GPS unit I added last year.. It took me awhile to find one that was 4:3 ratio, while also not being under 4". This one is 5", it happens to have a frame that has almost the same color and simulated-metal look that the tape bezel has. It was also very cheap..

Things I had to do:

Give it a power source: I used a switch 12V lead going in to the factory 12v to 5v cigarette adapter. All hidden within the lower dash/center console.) There is lots of room in there.

Split audio:, so I could have this and also a female 1/8" jack for other inputs.

Remote a switch to power on the GPS unit:. (Since the power button and all other ports are not reachable once mounted behind the bezel.) I did this by simply soldering wire leads to the on/off softswitch. The unit has a battery, but turns off after 10 seconds when external power goes away, which worked nicely since I used a switched 12v lead.

Mounting: Fabricated a custom metal bracket that holds the unit to the back of the tape player bezel (this is with the metal outer bezel and black plastic frame as a whole.) It screws in to the back of the plastic frame by 3 female motherboard stand-off screws that I JB welded to the appropriate locations. (I'll take pictures later.)

Reception: This would have been easy, had this unit an external antenna connector, but it did not. The unit, with just its internal antenna was able to work, but sometimes would take as long as 20min to get a fix, due to the mounting location (a lot of metal runs over it.)

I acquired an external, amplified antenna, and de-soldered the internal one. Then found the RF / ground leads pass no voltage, meaning the internal antenna was passive (non-amplified). Since the external antenna requires 2.5 - 5v to operate, I figured I was going to create an external low-noise regulated 5v power supply with RF pass-through, but was lazy and took the risk of running 5v in parallel with the device as-is.

Amazingly it fried nothing, and didn't seem to mind the 5v passing back in to it. So I just soldered a 5v+ lead from the internal battery to the RF joint. After soldering a nice little RF connector to run out of the unit, it was finally done.

I didn't expect this to work, due to impedance matching, or frying the chipset, but I lucked out, it gets fantastic signal in 7 seconds or less. I mounted that external antenna up above the glove box, right under the dash..

Sorry that was so long-winded, phew!

[Guest Reatta Tone]

VERY NICE!

how did you get your dash lights to light up blue?

[Fox W.]

I think that is just how the picture came out, they don't look quite that blue in real life, though night-mode has always appeared less green.

Speaking of blue, I saw some are replacing the shift EL strip with blue LEDs. I don't understand why people wouldn't just replace it with EL 1" wide tape? That is what I did, and it matches absolutely perfectly in color, and runs off of the factory inverter, which preserves the dim-switch's effect.

You can cut it to any length:

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

What's your source for the EL tape?

[Nittany]

Nicely done Fox!! Looks like an OEM install!

[Fox W.]

When I did it in 2005, I had found it on Ebay, color='Aqua.' But it is easy to find around the Internet by searching.

What's your source for the EL tape?

[Fox W.]

Thanks, I tried.

Really though I would have preferred to get a larger 4:3 ratio LCD screen with a touch panel to fill that space (but still fit within the bezel) and just back that by any system I wanted.. but finding a square screen in the 6.x" range proved to be difficult.

Of course you could go the route of a 16:9 7" screen as D-a-n-i-e-l did, which is fine but you'll likely need to cut your tape frame/bezel to match. I try to avoid any cutting unless I know I can make it look perfect and factory, which isn't usually possible, so I just don't.

I like the 1/2 DIN idea that D-a-n-i-e-l used, that is a very good way to go.. I am not interested in movies, so for me it would just be CD's since I prefer them over MP3's for quality.

I found there are some that are 6.3" but they are quite expensive, and not very good even (low contrast/quality panels) usually sold for industrial uses, and for collocation rack mount applications.

Nicely done Fox!! Looks like an OEM install!

Edited March 27, 2011 by Fox W. (see edit history)

[Fox W.]

GPS rear.

GPS: = Nextar Snap5. Cheap, down to ~$130 on Amazon, good GPS software.

Antenna:= Gilsson High Performance FME Universal GPS Antenna ; $25 on Amazon

BNC pigtail: = From local electronic supply store HSC Electronic Supply - Silicon Valley's Electronic Marketplace

I'll by happy to help anyone out with questions if they go this route. If you are good with electronics and soldering, then I would say the hardest part is actually making a way to mount it to the back of the tape bezel frame.

----------------------

Also, I am missing one of the metal clips that hold the back plastic bezel frame in to the 4 metal slots. I tried looking through the parts pdf for the service manual on reatta.net, but could not find mention of these. Anyone have an idea where I may be able to find a replacement? Thanks.

[wws944]

...Also, I am missing one of the metal clips that hold the back plastic bezel frame in to the 4 metal slots. I tried looking through the parts pdf for the service manual on reatta.net, but could not find mention of these. Anyone have an idea where I may be able to find a replacement? Thanks.

The clip is part #10038190. (Look at the illustrations.pdf, page 10-30. The clip is labelled part number 17.) Check the HELP section at Autozone/Pep Boys/etc, or just go over to Pearsons.

The GPS install looks great! (And yeah - HSC is a fun place to wander around in.)

[Fox W.]

That was really helpful, thank you! I had scanned those pages lots, but missed that. I take it you are in the bay area then?

Does anyone know where one can get a replacement for the hex console screws, I think are 11513922? Everyone seems to not carry these now.

The clip is part #10038190. (Look at the illustrations.pdf, page 10-30. The clip is labelled part number 17.) Check the HELP section at Autozone/Pep Boys/etc, or just go over to Pearsons.

The GPS install looks great! (And yeah - HSC is a fun place to wander around in.)

[wws944]

That was really helpful, thank you! I had scanned those pages lots, but missed that. I take it you are in the bay area then?

You are welcome! And yes.

Does anyone know where one can get a replacement for the hex console screws, I think are 11513922? Everyone seems to not carry these now.

Maybe under a different part number now? And there are always the local PickNPulls. Whenever I buy anything there, I often make sure it has a few 'period' fasteners attached to it.

Edited March 28, 2011 by wws944 (see edit history)

[Fox W.]

Unfortunately that was not the same clip, and I am not sure what this clip goes to. (It is smaller, different design, and greenish in color) I need the ones that hold the tape player bezel as well as the gauges/CRT bezel on.

These pictures show the 10038190 clip in the bag vs. the one I mean:

[Fox W.]

That was really helpful, thank you! I had scanned those pages lots, but missed that. I take it you are in the bay area then?

Does anyone know where one can get a replacement for the hex console screws, I think are 11513922? Everyone seems to not carry these now.

I discovered a great replacement for these hex console screws is Dorman 45862.

[Fox W.]

Version 2:

Previously posted in this thread you can see what I did years ago. The result was far less impressive than the description of what it took to make it usable. I never wanted to use a slow embedded GPS appliance, what I wanted was a screen that I could connect to anything, either a powerful generic PC, or a suitable embedded system that could do far more. The limiter was my desire to maintain a very OEM appearance, with no external modification to the trim. For a long time I hunted for a screen that was an exact match to the tape opening (which is the same as the CRT opening) ; this would be a display that is exactly 7" 4:3 ratio. I was unable to find that, plus a controller for it, plus a touch membrane. I was able to find smaller screens though, but I was not satisfied.

Finally I found a database that let me search every screen out there and I found a perfect match.. For months I worked on getting a controller for it and with assistance from a friend who is good with making hardware was able to get everything together.

The result is a 7" 4:3 ratio touch screen that is backed by an Intel i7 processor, a Asus U7 quality sound device, and a echo cancellation processor for OEM quality hands-free operation via bluetooth to my phone. It looks and works nicely. See below:

The operation is quite nice in regards to automatic startup and hibernate. After turning the ignition off, the system will hibernate after 15min. When external power resumes, it wakes up. The system has a fast-resume of only 5-seconds.

Problems:

Limited space for all the gear, not easy to squish it all in.

Screen is not sunlight readable like the CRT, this is a problem for most LCD's that people don't consider when they think of adding one. The CRT is actually quite superior for readability. Sunlight readable LCDs are available but none that I could get a controller for.

Screen does not adjust brightness automatically for night. You end up with an LCD screen that is too bright at night, and would have to manually lower this each time. Most elegant solution would be to program the controllers' firmware to reduce brightness to some specified level when a photo sensor detected some specified ambient light, just as the stock system does. This would require figuring out if you could get a photo sensor to interface with the realtek chip on the controller. (When I say controller, this is what many refer to as the 'driver' (hardware/firmware) for the LCD screen itself.)

In 2004 I took the tape players input for external audio.. now I have that running to this GPS unit I added last year.. It took me awhile to find one that was 4:3 ratio, while also not being under 4". This one is 5", it happens to have a frame that has almost the same color and simulated-metal look that the tape bezel has. It was also very cheap..

Things I had to do:

Give it a power source: I used a switch 12V lead going in to the factory 12v to 5v cigarette adapter. All hidden within the lower dash/center console.) There is lots of room in there.

Split audio:, so I could have this and also a female 1/8" jack for other inputs.

Remote a switch to power on the GPS unit:. (Since the power button and all other ports are not reachable once mounted behind the bezel.) I did this by simply soldering wire leads to the on/off softswitch. The unit has a battery, but turns off after 10 seconds when external power goes away, which worked nicely since I used a switched 12v lead.

Mounting: Fabricated a custom metal bracket that holds the unit to the back of the tape player bezel (this is with the metal outer bezel and black plastic frame as a whole.) It screws in to the back of the plastic frame by 3 female motherboard stand-off screws that I JB welded to the appropriate locations. (I'll take pictures later.)

Reception: This would have been easy, had this unit an external antenna connector, but it did not. The unit, with just its internal antenna was able to work, but sometimes would take as long as 20min to get a fix, due to the mounting location (a lot of metal runs over it.)

I acquired an external, amplified antenna, and de-soldered the internal one. Then found the RF / ground leads pass no voltage, meaning the internal antenna was passive (non-amplified). Since the external antenna requires 2.5 - 5v to operate, I figured I was going to create an external low-noise regulated 5v power supply with RF pass-through, but was lazy and took the risk of running 5v in parallel with the device as-is.

Amazingly it fried nothing, and didn't seem to mind the 5v passing back in to it. So I just soldered a 5v+ lead from the internal battery to the RF joint. After soldering a nice little RF connector to run out of the unit, it was finally done.

I didn't expect this to work, due to impedance matching, or frying the chipset, but I lucked out, it gets fantastic signal in 7 seconds or less. I mounted that external antenna up above the glove box, right under the dash..

Sorry that was so long-winded, phew!

Edited June 18, 2014 by Fox W. (see edit history)

[padgett]

I am doing everything with tablets now, no depth problem. 90-91 is much easier since radio is a standard GM din and a half with many options there.

[Fox W.]

Yeah that makes things easier of course. Like I said, I wanted something that fit the 88/89 tape deck and had to go from there.

[KDirk]

Fox,

That was very nicely done. The kind of project I like doing. I have considered doing a simliar setup but thus far have found it easier to use a 2 din nav & media setup that is ready to go out of the box. The one drawback is that the map data on most of these is proprietary and seldom if ever gets updated. So, after a few years you have a boat anchor when the nav data is too far outdated to remain accurate. At the cost of these units ($500 and up typically) that is a hard pill to swallow.

I wish someone would do an DVD/AM/FM/MP3 2 din touchscreen receiver that ran android as the OS and could have standard apps loaded. Then you could add any offline NAV app and update the maps or replace the whole app as needed. There are some Chinese made units like this but there quality is iffy and support is non existent as they are all off brands.

If Pioneer or Alpine or Kenwood would make such a unit I would buy it. They big players are still hung up on proprietary os overlays and nav software and insist on the idea of tethering one's smart phone to the head unit to access other apps. While this could be made to work ok, so far their efforts have not been terribly successful. Progress on this front seems awfully slow.

Iphone integration seems ok on some models but android support is no where near ready for prime time. Would be easier to dispense with the phone mirroring idea and make the head unit itself an android based system capable of loading ones desired apps and run them locally.

Why some outfit like Samsung or Sony hasn't opted to enter the auto media market with such a device is a mystery to me. Both companies have the expertise to make such a product as they already make android based phones and tablets. Sony does make car stereo hardware but nothing quite like what I have described. Samsung has avoided the auto media segment of the market entirely which surprises me.

In the words of Leon Russell, "how many years will it take to see the sun, how many years til it's done?" Seems like I'm destined to continue waiting for what should be an obvious solution while the big players keep pussy footing around with half baked efforts.

KDirk

[wws944]

Great job!

[Fox W.]

Thanks for the compliment! I don't have a lot to say really, since you already know what is what. I can only say I agree really. My direction is even harder in some ways because the navigation software for full x86 platforms also dried up. The market of the 'CarPC' died in favor of embedded devices like Android or Raspberry Pi.

I went with my direction because after months of research I found there was still no better solution for my purposes than a PC to back the LCD.. Too much to explain everything here.. but for one was cost, the laptop I'm using was free and on hand.. the other reasons are software and resolution limitations.. you'd be amazed how hard it is to find any embedded system that will display everything properly at 800x600, which I had to do for the LCD I chose..

The IGO app I use for navigation actually accepts a number of standard map formats such as those by Street-atlas, and so you can use the very latest even if the application is years older. IGO is a very popular nav. app that comes with many of the embedded CE devices on the market. My friends Chevy Silverado 2500 has a 2-DIN that uses a Samsung ARM9 400 with WinCE, with IGO, very typical. Most of those devices accept an SD card, so there is a little flexibility to add things, and ways to get admin/root access on most I think.

I guess one good thing about the Chinese stuff is everything is unlocked, so to speak. I had to work a lot with Aliexpess/Alibaba when getting my screen and the controller, I'll say it really wasn't bad! Alibaba acts as a escrow, the seller does not get paid unless you get your item, and if you don't get your item they refund you without question.

Fox,

That was very nicely done. The kind of project I like doing. I have considered doing a simliar setup but thus far have found it easier to use a 2 din nav & media setup that is ready to go out of the box. The one drawback is that the map data on most of these is proprietary and seldom if ever gets updated. So, after a few years you have a boat anchor when the nav data is too far outdated to remain accurate. At the cost of these units ($500 and up typically) that is a hard pill to swallow.

I wish someone would do an DVD/AM/FM/MP3 2 din touchscreen receiver that ran android as the OS and could have standard apps loaded. Then you could add any offline NAV app and update the maps or replace the whole app as needed. There are some Chinese made units like this but there quality is iffy and support is non existent as they are all off brands.

If Pioneer or Alpine or Kenwood would make such a unit I would buy it. They big players are still hung up on proprietary os overlays and nav software and insist on the idea of tethering one's smart phone to the head unit to access other apps. While this could be made to work ok, so far their efforts have not been terribly successful. Progress on this front seems awfully slow.

Iphone integration seems ok on some models but android support is no where near ready for prime time. Would be easier to dispense with the phone mirroring idea and make the head unit itself an android based system capable of loading ones desired apps and run them locally.

Why some outfit like Samsung or Sony hasn't opted to enter the auto media market with such a device is a mystery to me. Both companies have the expertise to make such a product as they already make android based phones and tablets. Sony does make car stereo hardware but nothing quite like what I have described. Samsung has avoided the auto media segment of the market entirely which surprises me.

In the words of Leon Russell, "how many years will it take to see the sun, how many years til it's done?" Seems like I'm destined to continue waiting for what should be an obvious solution while the big players keep pussy footing around with half baked efforts.

KDirk

Edited March 10, 2014 by Fox W. (see edit history)

[padgett]

"navigation software for full x86 platforms also dried up" that may be true of Windows CE and RT but not real Windows 8.1. I am using both Microsoft Streets and Trips and Delorme Street Atlas (2013 versions) at present. True, most are not directly compatible with Windows Localizer Service (WLS) but with a shim (Localizer from Centrafuse) both work fine as does GPSView and GPSInfo.

Today I want to be able to move the tabs between cars & use a removable dock. What I need (easy in 90-91, hard on 88-89) is a head unit with amp, Bluetooth, USB, HFP, and aux inputs. Radio/CD is optional but comes with the Clarion M303 I put in the Crossfire and CZ702 going in the 'vert.

Prices of these tablets are dropping fast, the Lenovo Miix 2 8" was $199 at Best Buy and Microsoft just chopped the price of a Windows 8.1 OEM license for "under $250 MSRP" tabs to $15.

Also I can use such tabs either alone when not in car or as a workstation with dock, keyboard, mouse, and real monitor(s).

Biggest drawback today is the setup time, about 5 minutes before a trip to beach to get engine diagnostics, sat-nav, and music selected. Same thing did in steam cars.

So for me it would be fine to just replace the cassette with a Bluetooth and HFP head unit to connect to the in dash system.

[Fox W.]

I'll post more sometime about the other things I've changed if you are interested, mostly involving the audio. I can't count Streets and Trips since it doesn't do 3D voice turn-by-turn nav last I knew. I hung around 'gpsunderground' site for awhile and found 4 of the 7 main turn-by-turn Windows XP/7/8 apps were either end of life or coming to be. The remaining ones are heavily focused on Android, Win Mobile, etc.. It just seems there is little market there anymore for PC.

"navigation software for full x86 platforms also dried up" that may be true of Windows CE and RT but not real Windows 8.1. I am using both Microsoft Streets and Trips and Delorme Street Atlas (2013 versions) at present. True, most are not directly compatible with Windows Localizer Service (WLS) but with a shim (Localizer from Centrafuse) both work fine as does GPSView and GPSInfo.

Today I want to be able to move the tabs between cars & use a removable dock. What I need (easy in 90-91, hard on 88-89) is a head unit with amp, Bluetooth, USB, HFP, and aux inputs. Radio/CD is optional but comes with the Clarion M303 I put in the Crossfire and CZ702 going in the 'vert.

Prices of these tablets are dropping fast, the Lenovo Miix 2 8" was $199 at Best Buy and Microsoft just chopped the price of a Windows 8.1 OEM license for "under $250 MSRP" tabs to $15.

Also I can use such tabs either alone when not in car or as a workstation with dock, keyboard, mouse, and real monitor(s).

Biggest drawback today is the setup time, about 5 minutes before a trip to beach to get engine diagnostics, sat-nav, and music selected. Same thing did in steam cars.

So for me it would be fine to just replace the cassette with a Bluetooth and HFP head unit to connect to the in dash system.

[Fox W.]

I am doing everything with tablets now, no depth problem. 90-91 is much easier since radio is a standard GM din and a half with many options there.

No depth problem where the LCD is, only the screen is there, when I said 'squishing it in' that was under the passenger seat. I've since relocated everything to the trunk, all hidden behind the side-carpets. I ran the wires in the same conduit paths the factor wires run. Everything is shielded and I finally cleaned up 100% of any human detectable noise in the audio by using a ground-loop isolator, a filter for the alternator noise, and a high quality power supply using the Linear LTC3780 chip. (Keeps voltage solidly at 12v and also got rid of all noise too)