Lead Paint Hazardous?

[Guest Felicity]

Everything I read about it says lead exposure of ANY amount is now thought to be bad. But the guys showing me how to restore wooden wheels are sanding the lead paint off and seem unconcerned. They are all "elder gentlemen", ie older than Moses, and swear all the worry is a bunch of crap. I want to be careful, but not paranoid... I have seen a few mentions of dealing with lead paint on the AACA forums, but no thread dedicated to it, so what to do isn't very clear to me. Is the risk of lead exposure really such a big deal?

[R W Burgess]

Felicity, I think those Moses guys realize time is short for them and they're just not going to worry about a health hazard at this time of their life. :eek::cool:

Of course there has been substantial research and a history of young children dying from ingesting lead paint from their beds (mostly metal). You know how babies love to bite when teething, which made this problem even worse.

Lead based paint is pretty much non-existent in this day and time.

Wayne

[MochetVelo]

I often see painters sanding old houses without even a dust mask, and that's not wise. On the other hand, I once sold a collection of shiny lead/tin organ pipes, and the buyer put on rubber gloves to handle them. Most pre-1978 paints contain lead, and you should keep the dust away from children, especially. Here's an interesting article on the subject: Lead Dangers, Myths and Realities on the Natural Handyman home repair and do it yourself website

Speaking of dangerous substances, I wonder how Stanley steamer mechanics fared with all that asbestos!

Phil

[Dave@Moon]

Lead based paint is pretty much non-existent in this day and time.

Wayne

True, but prior to 1978 lead was present in virtually all paint, and the main metallic ingredient in the pigment of vibrant paints. Brightly colored paints from the 1920s are almost certainly based exclusively on lead pigments. That was why lead was used.

[Dave@Moon]

Is the risk of lead exposure really such a big deal?

Lead exposure causes diminished mental faculty (among other symptoms) long before death is immanent. It's not just a poison that acts benignly up to a threshold that you need to stay below.

So yes, it's a big deal. HEPA filters on a dust mask should be used at all times, and this (sanding of lead paints) should never be done indoors where people live.

[Guest martylum]

I deal with old car paint removal on a pretty regular basis and do not do sanding removal without wearing a good quality dust mask in a well ventilateed area.

On wood wheels the safer way to remove paint is to put into a vacuum scavenged glass bead cabinet and remove spraying with, in my case, aluminum oxide abrasive.

Chemical paint remover removes the sanding dust exposure and substitutes chemical exposure from the remover ingredients. Use in a well ventilated area as the remover can advises.

Which is more hazardous-sanding vs chemical remover? I'm not sure but I use the glass bead cabinet for anything which will fit in and have a commercial sandblaster do chassis stripping unless the customer wishes to go the extra cost of immersing the bare metal parts in an electrolytic caustic bath at a commercial stripping facility. I feel the sandblasting in open air dust and paint exposure is too hazardour for my health. My sandblaster contractor wears an air supplied moonsuit to do his work.

I'm 68 but I still minimize my exposure to dust and chemicals. Dying from damaged lungs isn't a pretty sight. The paint spraying exposure-that's the real heavy duty danger to try to avoid. I've had a long-time upholsterer who has had to retire recently due to lung damage from long term exposure to contact cement adhesives used in vinyl tops, etc.

Just a few thoughts on the relative dangers in the restoration process.

Do be very cautious no matter how old you are

Marty Lum

[Dave@Moon]

Speaking of dangerous substances, I wonder how Stanley steamer mechanics fared with all that asbestos!

Phil

Probably better than the poor boilermakers in the factory!:eek: After that the salvage yard people who dismantled the cars probably had even more exposure.

However both like pale in comparison to mechanics who specialized in brake jobs for the first 80+ years of automobiles. It would be hard to find a more insidious form of asbestos than brake dust.

[poci1957]

Hello Felicity, sanding the paint converts it to dust in the air and then you breathe it in, thus ingesting lead into your system. I choose to always wear a dust mask while sanding, at the very least I will not be coughing up dust for the next 24 hours.

BUT since your teachers have made it to old age while breathing dust they do not see it as a problem, and indeed the health hazard with lead was probably more in larger quantities and on a daily basis. It can't hurt to wear the mask, it can only help, good luck, Todd

[Guest Felicity]

Thanks, Guys, for all the input so far. There are usually no kids in the building where the old carriage wheels are being sanded, but there are always kids near the building. Still, my sense is that the big danger is to me and the Ol' Guys, as long as we don't spread it. Right now there is a layer of red dust around the wheels, and now I am wondering how to get rid of it? Is a shop vac ok? or do I need a space suit and special gear? Is there a happy medium? Thanks again for the $0.02 - you guys are awesome.

F

[MCHinson]

Not to give any legally binding advice..... but. If I had the dust in my garage, to clean it up, I would wear a dust mask. Gently spray/drizzle water onto the dust to dampen it. Use disposable paper towels to wipe it up. Dispose of the damp remains and the papertowels in a sealed container, and transport it to a semi-annual hazardous materials collection day.

[Guest Felicity]

I often see painters sanding old houses without even a dust mask, and that's not wise. On the other hand, I once sold a collection of shiny lead/tin organ pipes, and the buyer put on rubber gloves to handle them. Most pre-1978 paints contain lead, and you should keep the dust away from children, especially. Here's an interesting article on the subject: Lead Dangers, Myths and Realities on the Natural Handyman home repair and do it yourself website

Speaking of dangerous substances, I wonder how Stanley steamer mechanics fared with all that asbestos!

Phil

Thanks for the link. Making me lean back towards being way careful. Nothing is ever simple!

[Dynaflash8]

Lead paint is dangerous if you eat it, that's for sure!

[Dave@Moon]

I am a former hazardous waste inspector for the state of PA, and I'm even more averse to giving legal advice than Matt is on this subject. Like almost anything else in life, doing this is at your own risk.

Matt's advice for using paper towels would seem to be the best bet for removing this material. The only thing I'd change is to mist the water onto the dusty area using a spray bottle to minimize possible wash-out or blowing of the dust. In fact I would recommend doing exactly this every single day when you're finished sanding, and doing the same thing to your shoes before leaving the room/garage/driveway/etc. where this is being done. Most likely you're doing this in some form of coveralls that can be left behind, but if not your clothing should be changed before you enter your house or car. In either case I'd launder the clothing/coveralls + clothing carefully, separately, and immediately.

One more caveat; it sounds like this may be something bigger than a home restoration project. If this is a commercial activity, or a professional service in any sense (part of a body shop operation, trade school project, commercial display creation, etc.), then legally this material should be collected and disposed according to EPA RCRA (hazardous waste) rules and regulations, or the state rules and regs if EPA has granted primacy to the state environmental agency where you are (as it has for almost all states). (Again, without giving any legal advice), you or the organization could be at serious risk if this is not an amateur restoration of something you own personally and this (waste dust and cleanup) material is not being manifested off-site in a legal manner.

[Dave@Moon]

Lead paint is dangerous if you eat it, that's for sure!

The problem with lead dust is you're eating it as well whenever you're exposed, whether you want to or not. Paint chips you can walk away from, what sticks to the back of your throat only has one place to go.

[Guest Felicity]

Well, the Ol' Guys (I know they are going to get me for that) are part of a car club. Which is how I found this website, btw. So technically I guess they are volunteers? I am new to this so I have no idea if car clubs have internal guidelines, or if they are bound by the same laws as money making businesses. Does the AACA have any info I can print out and hand to the guys?

[Dave@Moon]

I am new to this so I have no idea if car clubs have internal guidelines, or if they are bound by the same laws as money making businesses.

Once again, do not consider this legal advice in any sense....

Having a bunch of friends help you with your car, or helping them with there's, is not a commercial or industrial enterprise. When I was enforcing these regs (15 years ago in PA) that'd still be considered household waste. That doesn't mean it can be handled indiscriminately, or without liability, but the functional procedures in the regulations for hazardous waste would not apply.

[Rusty_OToole]

I worked in garages and body shops for 20 years then had to get out of that line of work due to lung damage.

My lungs were down to about 65% of normal capacity. Since then I have quit smoking and adopted a healthier way of life, and have regained quite a bit of breathing ability. But will never be 100%.

In those days (50s thru 70s) we didn't worry about health hazards. Thinking back I remember a lot of old time mechanics had severe breathing problems, emphysema, and other health problems and usually died young.

Yet, there are always exceptions. Bill Hines, I believe kept working in his body shop every day, complete with his ever present cigar, until he was near 90. For all I know he is still working.

Even so I advise anyone to be extremely careful and don't risk your health. You don't know how much you miss it until it's gone.