Help: 1931 Model 58 Buick Front Passenger Sagging Door

[SteveHotRod]

Hi,

Both front doors on my 31 Buick were sagging. I replaced the screws & put dowels in the A pillar where they screw into & now the hinges are tight. The driver door is fine but there still is a lot of sag in the passenger door (see pic 1). The Fisher Body Service Manual suggested putting shims under the front body tie down bolt. I tried this (see pic 2) but it doesn't help & may be making it worse. I can close the door by lifting it & slamming (but it's pretty hard to do).

Any thoughts here would be appreciated! (For example, should I shim the bottom hinge out, try to move the bottom of the A pillar on the steel plate that ties it to the car, or I'm even thinking of cutting the pillar at the bottom & rotating it backward & reattaching to the steel plate, etc (I'm nervous about this one!)

Thanks much!

Steve

[oldford]

There seems to be decay in the bottom of the pillar right at the crease in the angle plate. The downward slope of the screw also points to the rotted wood pillar. The screw shows that the wood pillar has moved down in relation to the plate. I think the only permanent solution is to replace the entire wood pillar. Not a small job, maybe best left to the winter months. Perhaps you can cut the rotted portion out and replace with new. A temp fix might be to repeat the process you used for the front doors, but the rot shown appears to be quite advanced.

Frank

[keiser31]

I agree with oldford....except...the base sill needs replacing, too. The "A" pillar is doing the very same thing that the ones on my friend's 1928 Franklin did. The sill got mushy and the "A" pillar probably dropped from the weight. My advice would be to very carefully support the "A" pillar and raise the sill surface to where it is supposed to be. Not an easy task, but this worked for my friend's car. It was a ROYAL pain, but was the only fix that actually worked. A previous owner had tried to rebuild the area with fiberglass. No worky for very long.

[Mark Shaw]

Do you want to restore or rebuild? To restore it, I suggest you just cut out the bad wood and replace the section you remove with enough wood to correct the sag. Keep in mind that the pillar will continue to compress over time. so you may want to put tapered shims under the base of the pillar to allow future adjustments.

Rebuilding the entire pillar is the only other option, & it will be a big job.

[SteveHotRod]

Guys,

Thanks for your thoughts here!

First, I only want to restore the car so I'd like to do this the easiest way!

I spent all afternoon today working on the door. I took out the screws that hold the steel plate to the pillar and, indeed, the wood is a bit rotten there.

However, it does not seem like the pillar has sunk downward, particularly since the top hinge is at the right height.

I then tried shimming the bottom hinge out from the A pillar and the sag is eliminated but the door doesn't close because it is pushed too far rearward. I also noticed that the top hinge needs to be moved forward on A pillar (more flush).

I guess I'll play with the hinges some more tomorrow PM!

Any thoughts??

Thanks again for your help!

Steve

[F&J]

This may not be practical, but if you could fit the door in the opening without hinges to see if the "doorway" still is in the correct shape?

Or if you know it is, moving that top hinge should help.

If you have a 3 hinge door, each hinge pin is supposed to be in a direct line. I usually leave the center one off while I fit a door. Then when the door fits good, then do whatever it takes to make the center one fit without any binding. If all 3 are not in line, each time the door is swung, the binding will loosen screws in imperfect wood pillars.

[SteveHotRod]

Thanks much! I'll try this soon. As it turns out the middle hinge on the pillar side was missing. I'm in the process of making one using a 37 Chevy hinge (Buick parts seem so hard to find!)so there is no middle hinge now!

Steve

[hddennis]

Steve, I had this same problem with a 1931 Chevrolet sedan. The right pillar, if the same as my Chevy and it appears to be in the pictures was attached to the car's wooden skeleton on both ends and without removing the roof and cowl are almost impossible to replace. Luckily I was able to buy a replacement post from a Chevy wood restorer and cut it in the middle in a zig-zag pattern and reassembled it using boat epoxy and studs and blind nuts inside the car. This still requires you to remove the door, door jambs and dashboard. I just remembered I had to buy the wooden beam that holds the dash as the right hand end attaches to the door post and that was rotten also. A lot of work but other than completely unskinning your body, a reverse of how the factory did it, this is about your only proper fix.

Good Luck, Howard Dennis

[Tom M]

I have not used this stuff but have heard of others they have and had good success using it for wood repair. Kiwk Poly

I have used this for some soft wood on my car. Minwax Wood Hardner My wife brought home from work a few different sized needels and what I did was squirted liberal amounts it into nail holes, screw holes or I would just pour it onto the flats pieces etc. It hardens up pretty good.

Guy I work with made new sills for me.

Wood Sill

[Friartuck]

A couple of years ago, I wrote an article on precisely this problem using Kwik Poly. Scroll to the middle of the page:

http://userpages.monmouth.com/~friartuck/lincoln/restoration_tips/restoration_tips.html

Chris

[SteveHotRod]

Guys,

Thanks much!

I loosened the hinges today & determined that the door will fit in the opening. I then took the door off, filed down the place where the top hinge (pillar side) fits, and epoxyed more hardwood dowels in where the screws go.

Will continue in a few days!

One question for Chris, however, is how do you lift the body off the frame near the A pillar?

Thanks,

Steve

[Friartuck]

Steve,

After removing body bolts, I use a flat bar between the main body rail and the chassis, enough to get a shim in place. Continue this up and down the legnth of the rail, increasing the thickness of the shims at 6-8 inch intervals. Always do a little at a time, like 1/16-1/8 inch. In my case, my seats were out and access was easy. You may have to do this from underneath. Inspect all the body mounting points regardless of where there are, there's likely one to be good as a sample.

Chris

[SteveHotRod]

Guys,

I want to thank you all!

I took the door off and set it in the opening. It fit!

I then put new hardwood plugs in 2 of the top hinge bolts & drilled the third one so I could bolt it from the outside. I then used a router to make the top hinge mounting "psd" on the pillar flsh. I put a 0.25 steel shim on the bottom hinge & now I'm in business!

Steve

[1929Chrysler]

When replacing wood on these cars, what is the best type to use??

Dan

[SteveHotRod]

Hi Dan,

I used red oak but someone told me that maple was originally used.

Steve

[Mark Shaw]

Not to be contrary, but none of my Buicks were built with oak or maple. I am no expert on wood, but ash seems to be the species used.

[Larry Schramm]

I would agree with Mark. Ash was plentiful in Michigan when those cars were built and it does not have the propensity to split. Think of baseball bats.

[keiser31]

Kiln dried ash is what early Chrysler products used...the other makers probably did, too. Oh...I just read in a wood body structure book that they "were framed in oak, ash, elm, beech, sycamore, willow and other medium and hardwoods, varieties often simply native to the locale of production."

Edited June 29, 2009 by keiser31 (see edit history)