Guest 4Bangin4Fun Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I spotted these two cars in a backyard in my neighborhood and was thinking of making an offer to the owner. I'm not sure what year they are? One is a Studebaker and the other is a Lincoln. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I would be on those like stink on doo doo! The Lincoln looks like a 1931 Convertible Roadster, Le Baron body (so it says in my book "American Cars" by Leon Mandel) a VERY rare car. The Studebaker looks like about a 1927. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I believe that the Studebaker is a 1927 Studebaker President, the body type yet to be determined. Also if so I'm fairly sure the bumper is either aftermarket or from another car, as it matches none in the Crestline book <span style="font-style: italic">Studebaker Cars</span>. The Lincoln is either a 1929 or 1930 model. Although it's hard to tell being under a tarp it looks to be a Model 179 LeBaron-designed (factory built) 5 passenger coupe, the smallest car in the 1929/30 Lincoln lineup. They made 209 of these in 1929 and 275 in 1930. If it's not a Model 179 it might also be a 1931 Lincoln, but I don't see how that shape could be any other model except a custom body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The picture of the exact Lincoln from my book. Notice the lip on the front fender...I believe that the 1930 and 1929 did not have the lip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: keiser31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The picture of the exact Lincoln from my book. Notice the lip on the front fender...I believe that the 1930 and 1929 did not have the lip. </div></div>Those lips on the fender are plainly visible in several photos in the Crestline book <span style="font-style: italic">The Cars of Lincoln-Mercury</span>. There are also photos of cars without them. The autogallery.com page for 1929 Lincolns shows those lips in about 1/2 the cars there, including this Model 179 (look close): Here are 2 other 1929 Lincolns which have those lips (the car in the top photo appears to have a 1932 hood, but is listed on the web site as a 1929): Most importantly, if you look at the profile of the Lincoln in the photo it matches the Model 179 perfectly, and is too short for the Model 206 that replaced it in 1931 (still the closest model to that shape from the 1931 lineup). If it's a 1931, is a <span style="text-decoration: underline">very</span> small custom body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BJM Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I hate to be a pessimist here but I doubt this guy is going to take any reasonable offer or is going to be interested in selling them at all. He knows what he has in these cars more then likely but can't stomach the costs of restorations so there they sit. Then you come along thinking what? $5000 per car? Not sure, but he would probably say "Have a nice day" Good luck and let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The Lincoln is definitely not a 29 or 30. It's a 31 or 32. They are totally different cars. I'm leaning towards a 1931. The body style is too hard to tell by the photo, but judging by the windshield header, it's a closed body style.Oh, and the latter two photos posted by Dave Moon are not Lincolns at all. I think they're Cadillacs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan arnett (2) Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Go for it. All he can do is say know but at least he will know he is interested. Speak to his wife who probably wants to get the junk out of her yard. A friend of mine tried to buy a car for years with no success. He gave it to his grandson who sold it to me the next day. I still have the car a 1916 Model T roadster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1928Packard526 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I agree with Steve. The Lincoln certainly can not be a '29 or '30. The Lincoln badge moved from the radiator shell to the headlight bar for '31 from what I can determine. My '29 has no bead to the front fender edge either. There is a bead on the fender's trailing edge further back, but the very front edge is smooth. The bead transition starts about 5" or so from the front lip of the fender and continues to the running board interface. Additionally, the headlights appear to have a different, smaller shape than the '29 variety and the hood louvers are too tall for a '29. My guess is that the Lincoln is a '31 or very late '30.The hood which Dave calls out as appearing to be a '32 hood on the one '29 car he shows us, appears correct for '29 to me. It matches the one on my car, which has been deemed one of the most complete and original examples he has seen by no other than Jack Passey who also owned it at one time. Jack is one of the true authorities of this hobby. I would have to go with his call.The dash and steering wheel hub is also totally different than the '29 dash and wheel.The Studebaker at least appears to be on its way to becoming a rat rod as the wheels and tires are certainly incorrect. While I am not certain, I also believe the obviously hydraulic brakes weren't original equipment. What is the shock like bit dangling below the engine compartment? Any ideas anyone?In my view we are looking at aborted hot rods. Is there a small block Chevy under either of those hoods? If that is the case they may be priced to sell.Pete P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The Lincoln looks like a four-door sedan to me. The rear door is missing.Interesting, that 1927 Studebaker radiator looks immaculate. I know someone who spent $25,000 replacing their 1927 Studebaker radiator. It has a unique curved shape to it that is very difficult to duplicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Don't bother with the Studebaker at all. It's not worth it. Just go after the Lincoln. The Studebaker is probably worth around $2500 as it sits. The Lincoln, probably around $7500 - $10,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dean_H. Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I agree, get the Lincoln, leave the Studebaker for the rodders. Unless of course, you want a cool hotrod. Hey Pete, Jack Passey recently gave my wife and me a tour of his collection. Fabulous cars and person. He wrote a book, "For the Love of Cars". Lot's of pictures, great stories, certainly worth having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I'm confused. Two of the cars you posted photos of aren't Lincolns. The cream & tan convertible coupe with landau bars is a 1931 Cadillac and the light cream & green roadster appears to be about a 1930 LaSalle. The car in question is a 1931 Lincoln. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Steve...you are along the same belief as I am. I believe that with certain details the Lincoln is a 1931. Yes...how can a guy compare the bead on a fender from a Lincoln to two Cadillacs? Clearly the last two cars are Cadillacs. Lincoln had a greyhound, not a flying goddess ornament. West....that sure looks way too short to be a four door. It is hard to tell if a rear door is missing or if it is just a darker quarter panel. Also, why would you cover it up like that if it was not a cloth top? I am not a Ford guy, but I can see details and determine a difference. We will see what the owner tells 4Bangin4Fun what the cars are, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The Studebaker looks to be a standard 4 door sedan with the incorrect bumper. The shock absorber thingy hanging is probably an added on steering stabilizer to dampen the movement on loose tie rod ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The Lincoln if a 1931 Convertible Roadster is worth about $22,000.00 in #4 condition. It is a little more rough than that, but that is what my 4 year old book says it could be worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Why would you pass on what seems to be a very decent Studebaker sedan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K8096</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm confused. Two of the cars you posted photos of aren't Lincolns. The cream & tan convertible coupe with landau bars is a 1931 Cadillac and the light cream & green roadster appears to be about a 1930 LaSalle. The car in question is a 1931 Lincoln. </div></div>That's what I get for posting in a hurry after midnight. If you right click on the photos and click properties you'll see the descriptions as '29 Lincolns.I still think the door is too long, and the back wheel is much too close to the B-pillar, for the Lincoln to be anything but a Model 179 (which was not made after 1930). It's possible, even probable in this class of cars, that things like bumpers and fenders would be updated by the owner to keep up with styling trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friartuck Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The Lincoln is a 1931 model K and not a 1932 KA. Indicators are:1. Shape of radiator grill2. Hood louvers instead of doors. Doors used in 1932 only.3. Red Cloisionne emblem, used on 31' and '32 V-8 models only. 1931 Lincoln model K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 YES Friartuck! That's what I have been trying to say. The details all lead up to 1931. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 My grandfather had two Lincolns, a 1930 and a 1931. I remember both cars very clearly. I know that the '32 is similar to the '31, but the '30 is totally different. The black sedan is the '31 Lincoln when I sold it. It was a standard four-door sedan. The body appears to be closed-coupled due to the enormous wheelbase, but it's not. The green phaeton is the '30. Many details are totally different as is the engine and chassis. They drove like night and day.I miss both cars, they were a beautiful pieces of machinery. The quality was amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Steve...both gorgeous cars. The Detroit police department and the Michigan State police department both used 1930 Lincolns like that phaeton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 4Bangin4Fun.....to answer the main question, they are both worth buying. Now if you are asking if they are worth the asking prices (if they are up for sale), we would have to see more photos and we would have to know the asking prices. We would also have to know how original they are and condition of chassis parts, etc. Any book can guesstimate how much a car is worth, but until someone actually puts eyeballs everywhere on a car, you won't know for sure what it's worth. Now, is it worth it for YOU to buy them? Only you know how much you are willing to put up to buy, store, restore and shelter these cars....and still love them because you never know if you will ever get out of them what you put into them. Personally, I only go for what REALLY trips my own trigger and I plan on keeping whatever I get. Sometimes, that doesn't work that way, but that is what I try to do. I try not to buy on speculation or resale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude17 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 4Bangin4Fun why would you want to purchase these vehicles considering you previous post where you advertise a 1925 Dodge Brothers sedan partially restored for $8,000 after spending $20,000 on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 That pic. was taken in vegas right dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friartuck Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Whoever gets the task to restore the '31 Lincoln, be forewarned that 1931 was a one year only for Lincoln and many parts are unique for that year. Known part problems are hood latches and handles, steering wheel control knobs, Greyhound hood ornament, both horns, cowl and headlight lenses, tail light and their lenses. Even the Seth Thomas electric clock is unique for that year. There will easily be 300-400 hours just in remanufacturing the missing parts and should be taken into account when establishing a purchase price. The good news is someone recently professionally reprinted the '31 owners manual, so thats a start. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: keiser31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">West....that sure looks way too short to be a four door. It is hard to tell if a rear door is missing or if it is just a darker quarter panel. Also, why would you cover it up like that if it was not a cloth top?</div></div>I'll bet my not-yet-purchased gravesite that it's a four-door sedan. Turn up the brightness level on your computer screen and you can clearly see the rear jamb and sill. Also, looking at the interior photo, that doesn't look like the window frame of a convertible car. I don't think they used wood sills on the drop-tops.As to your question as to why cover it up if it wasn't a cloth top; Lincoln didn't start using full metal tops until the mid- to late 1930s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Here's a lightened up version of the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 As to weather the Studebaker is worth buying, just like the Lincoln, it all depends on what the price is. As I said earlier, the convex radiator on the Studebaker is probably worth more than the rest of the parts put together (if in fact it is as good as it looks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 "The good news is someone recently professionally reprinted the '31 owners manual, so thats a start."Chris, where would one get such an owner's manual and who would be a good source for repro parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1948Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That pic. was taken in vegas right dave? </div></div>I really don't know. I was trying to trace the question of fender lips in my books and looked at an online photo gallery of what were supposed to be 1929 Lincolns for example to post. I must have been too tired because I didn't even notice that the 2 cars I chose were misidentified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll bet my not-yet-purchased gravesite that it's a four-door sedan. </div></div>I don't think so, West. I think it's even more visible in the lightened photo that the tarp on the roof, where it's draped over the rear, touches the rear fender about midway through the wheel well. The roof is clearly (in my opinion) too short for a sedan. Also, while it is strictly an eyeball guess, it looks like the "rear door" area (if that is what it is) is 1/2 or less the length of the front door even given the steep angle of the photo.That is why I thought it was a 5-Passenger Coupe (Model 179), which led me to believe it was an updated 1929/30 model. The lightened photo, showing better the length of the cowl and angle of the A-pillar, looks more like a normal 1931 5-Passenger Coupe (Model 206) to me now.Of course it <span style="font-style: italic">might</span> also be a landau with the folding rear section missing or folded, causing the "roof" to end mid-wheel well. But I think it's even less likely that a landau would have such short/narrow rear doors than would a sedan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 You can see the door jamb of the rear door that missing - it's painted in grey primer. The roof does look to end midway at the the rear fender making the car a club sedan - much more desirable than a regular 5 passanger sedan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1928Packard526 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Dave —On the subject of the fender lips, attached is a photo of my '29 Lincoln. Note that the fender front lip is smooth and the bead starts at the side and runs to the running board interface. I think you were fooled by the one photo you originally posted of a '29. I took that photo off the site and enlarged it a bit. The result is attached. It lost a lot of clarity, but I don't think there is much question that the front lip is smooth. My view is that those fenders are just like the ones I see every day.Pete P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Well, I'll be DIPPED!!!! It is a four door. Thanks West for the enlightenment. I do still think it is a '31, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Based on the headlights and hood louvers, it's definitely a 1931. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 4Bangin4Fun Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I have not sold the Dodge, at the time I was in a desperate financial crisis but have since recovered.I'm extremely happy that I didn't sell it. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Merv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4Bangin4Fun why would you want to purchase these vehicles considering you previous post where you advertise a 1925 Dodge Brothers sedan partially restored for $8,000 after spending $20,000 on it? </div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 4Bangin4Fun Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Wow! a lot of information, THANK YOU!! very much.I'm going back there today to try and get a few more pics and info on the cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Just so you know, in my opinion, a '31 Lincoln is a 60mph car that steers and stops like a modern car. I'd love to have another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 4Bangin4Fun Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Well I just got back from spending almost the whole day with the guy who owns the cars and he was very nice and offered to show me around his shop, good thing I was wearing a fresh diaper because I nearly shat myself when I walked into his garage.. I will preface this with that I approached him as being interested in shooting photos of old cars (which I do) and not as an interested buyer, my intent on posting these photos and story here is to share what I saw and also to get your opinions and experienced insight as to weather these cars would be worth engaging the owner to try and buy them. He does know what he has but does not know what the current values are. He says the Lincoln is a 31 K model and has all the parts except for the engine and trans, also says the Studebaker has early chevy drum brakes and had a 351 windsor/C4 trans (Great rat rod).More Lincoln pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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