Dave@Moon Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Toyota Outsells GM Globally, AP 1/21/09.GM is no longer the world's largest automaker. 78 years it held that title. Here's to getting it back! Soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Run the numbers, what does the guy screwing the left front fender on a GM product take home per year. Be sure to dial in EVERY benifit he/she gets. GOOD used 2 year old cars vs. new is another reason. GROSSLY overpaid CEO's that are clueless is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest abh3usn Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Yes Toyota is now the largest automaker. However, they did scarfice quality to do so. Also, they now employ Americans as they have several palnts in the U.S. I bought one after owing a POS '94 Corvette. The car was the worst I've ever had and cost me over $7,000 in maintenance over three years. I intend to drive my Toyota until the wheels fall off then I will again look into US vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dave, you must be the happiest kid on the block! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 abh3usn....maybe you shoulda got a Viper instead of a Vette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: abh3usn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...I intend to drive my Toyota until the wheels fall off then I will again look into US vehicles. </div></div>You will drive long and far, becoming much older in the process.Cheers,JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 GM is a far better car than Toyota, my mother was in an accident with her 99 blazer, which was totalled and the car in front (ford) and the car in back (infiniti, which smashed into my mom at 55 when she was stopped at a light) had major damage but, the blazer looks almost as if it could have been driven off, except for the fact that the driveshaft was shoved into the engine and the tailpipe, was jammed on top of the back tire, I am going to post some pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Clark Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 re: GM is no longer the world's largest automaker. 78 years it held that title. Here's to getting it back! Soon!I'm confused Dave. There is no shortage of good cars at a good price from many manufacturers. Why do we need that title back? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm confused Dave. There is no shortage of good cars at a good price from many manufacturers. Why do we need that title back?</div></div>Easy. GM won that title by consistently making the best quality cars across most of the major price categories over decades, and kept it by doing so for decades more. They lost it by not doing so for decades.If they get it back, if Ford earns it, if Chrysler-Fiat does, ir if anyone else does, it is us who are the winners. They'll only be able to do it by bettering what's on the market by today's quality giants. Better cars are the result of competition in the marketplace. Anybody who excels will be rewarded, as Toyota and Honda have been. At the end of the day it's a satisfied customer that determines these things. I'd like to be one from an American company and not be in a minority. Wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Clark Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 DaveIn an earlier append you saidNow finally, the concept that "buying American" has been conclusively shown here to be little more than an outmoded concept (as far as the automobile market is concerned) to anyone really reading the material here.My question Dave is why would you now care about this outmoded concept? What is it that makes you state that you'd "like it to be one from an American company"? .Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Well, you can call it sentimentality if you like, but in the main that's not it.The fact of the matter is that better cars mean a better life, no matter who builds them. Changing the present dynamic means that better cars would likely be built here by "American" companies. Whether you're routing for the companies or the better life doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Run the numbers, what does the guy screwing the left front fender on a GM product take home per year. Be sure to dial in EVERY benifit he/she gets. GOOD used 2 year old cars vs. new is another reason. GROSSLY overpaid CEO's that are clueless is another. </div></div>Bob I knew there was a reason I liked you - we basically think exactly alike. GM is carrying 10 people on it's health plan for every one it employs. The fully loaded compensation for it's workers is crazy. You need to talk about pension, health, vacation, sick, disability as well as salary when you talk compensation. The boobs running the company are also an issue of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Where is uncle Lee Iacocca when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alsancle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Run the numbers, what does the guy screwing the left front fender on a GM product take home per year. Be sure to dial in EVERY benifit he/she gets. GOOD used 2 year old cars vs. new is another reason. GROSSLY overpaid CEO's that are clueless is another. </div></div>Bob I knew there was a reason I liked you - we basically think exactly alike. GM is carrying 10 people on it's health plan for every one it employs. The fully loaded compensation for it's workers is crazy. You need to talk about pension, health, vacation, sick, disability as well as salary when you talk compensation. The boobs running the company are also an issue of course. </div></div>Read this: $73 an Hour: Adding It Up (New York Times Business Section, 12/9/2008). Pay special attention to the graphic figure comparison in the article (expanded in this link). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fully loaded compensation for it's workers is crazy.</div></div>None of the legacy costs would be an insurmountable burden IF the big 3 still commanded their historical market share, the killer is trying to support those legacy costs on less than half of their historical share.I find it baffling, given the large amounts of retirees here on the forum that there is no regard for the retiree dependents of the big 3. How well would you do if your pension and healthcare benefits evaporated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I knew the 70 dollar an hour figure was the fully loaded number not the "cash" compensation. I also assumed they were throwing in the legacy health costs so I learned nothing new from this. No matter how you cut it those costs are strangling the companies.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alsancle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Run the numbers, what does the guy screwing the left front fender on a GM product take home per year. Be sure to dial in EVERY benifit he/she gets. GOOD used 2 year old cars vs. new is another reason. GROSSLY overpaid CEO's that are clueless is another. </div></div>Bob I knew there was a reason I liked you - we basically think exactly alike. GM is carrying 10 people on it's health plan for every one it employs. The fully loaded compensation for it's workers is crazy. You need to talk about pension, health, vacation, sick, disability as well as salary when you talk compensation. The boobs running the company are also an issue of course. </div></div>Read this: $73 an Hour: Adding It Up (New York Times Business Section, 12/9/2008). Pay special attention to the graphic figure comparison in the article (expanded in this link). </div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 What the government shoud realize is the heavy increase in Medicare costs should the big 3 give up their retiree health benefits. Medicare is due to be bankrupt about 7 years after Social Security. That would obviously escalate should the above happen. That alone should make them do the bailout of the auto industry. Just as a question, Why does the big 3 have to offer retiree health benefits when there is Medicare? Other then it was negotiated in to the contract. I would think that would be an easy "giveback" to help the carmakers. Also if the government is so interested in a national health care program why don't they tout the success of medicare as why it would work for everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No matter how you cut it those costs are strangling the companies.</div></div>Then how do you explain this (<span style="font-style: italic">from the article with "nothing new"</span>)?<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So here’s a little experiment. Imagine that a Congressional bailout effectively pays for $10 an hour of the retiree benefits. That’s roughly the gap between the Big Three’s retiree costs and those of the Japanese-owned plants in this country. Imagine, also, that the U.A.W. agrees to reduce pay and benefits for current workers to $45 an hour — the same as at Honda and Toyota.Do you know how much that would reduce the cost of producing a Big Three vehicle? Only about $800.That’s because labor costs, for all the attention they have been receiving, make up only about 10 percent of the cost of making a vehicle. An extra $800 per vehicle would certainly help Detroit, but the Big Three already often sell their cars for about $2,500 less than equivalent cars from Japanese companies, analysts at the International Motor Vehicle Program say. Even so, many Americans no longer want to own the cars being made by General Motors, Ford and Chrysler. </div></div>In my view, the <span style="text-decoration: underline">only</span> problem Detroit has is crystallized in that last sentence:"<span style="font-style: italic">Even so (</span>i.e. despite the fact that they're actually <span style="text-decoration: underline">cheaper</span><span style="font-style: italic">), many Americans no longer want to own the cars being made by General Motors, Ford and Chrysler.</span>" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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