Gas Prices vs New Car Sales

[Reatta Man]

WOW!

Now we know what Dave really looks like!

Seriously, I don't think anyone calls the GW crowd evil; those of us who refuse to drink the GW Kool-aid are often called evil, though!

But, there ARE scientists out there who don't go along with the GW histeria:

http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm

Cheers!

[Reatta Man]

Joe,

I'm not trying to make excuses for some of these people that are in debt up to their eyeballs, but there is something else you need to keep in mind....

We have all be exposed to BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars in advertising since we were kids to think that DEBT is NORMAL.

When I was taking Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University a few years ago, it dawned on me just how much I had been indoctrinated, and how I was going to have to undoctrinate myself if I was ever going to believe that being in debt to the point to where I am barely surviving is NOT normal!

So, to some extent, many people were exposed to thousands upon thousands of Countrywide, Visa MasterCharge, er, Card commercials to the point to where debt is an acceptable way of life to the point to where we have had the desire to get OUT of debt programmed out of us. Now, we don't get out of debt, we just exchange the debt we incurred 5 years ago for different debt today. Trading in a car not paid off for another car that will never be paid off is one good example.

So, as Dave says, you have to 'live like no one else now so later you can live like no one else.'

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously, I don't think anyone calls the GW crowd evil; those of us who refuse to drink the GW Kool-aid are often called evil, though!</div></div>

Anyone who would knowingly cause or encourage as much pain as fixing this is going to cause, and who would do it for no good reason, is evil. Period.

You have to ask yourself, are virtually all the scientists on earth evil or not?

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charlie Larkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Bob,

Rhode Island has no excise tax???

Gee, maybe I'll move there after all!

Charlie Larkin </div></div>

Charlie, don't bother, We have one................ & others, but none on older cars.

[Reatta Man]

Dave,

Normally, I try very hard to ignore you, but YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT!

If I don't agree with whatever you say, I'm evil, right?

And yes, it is true, not all scientists are in agreement on this:

http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm

Here's another example of the lie being perpetrated not matching the truth. We've all been told ALL the ice is melting, right? THERE IS MORE ICE THIS YEAR THAN LAST AND THE TREND IS INCREASING, NOT GOING DOWN AS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD!

Look for yourself, from the Univ. of Colorado's National Snow and Ice Data Center:

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_timeseries.png

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/daily.html

So, Dave, call me all the names you wish. But just remember, there are a LOT of people in this forum that still use common sense and think for themselves.

[Guest John Chapman]

Reatta,

As you dig into this mess of deliberate misinformation touting global warming, interesting things start to turn up. For instance, Dr Roger Revelle (Univ of California, San Diego) and one time director of the Scripps Intititue of Oceanography, is credited with the hypothisis of CO2 as a warming agent (first used 'greenhouse effect'), but in his later years cautioned that "... we should be careful not to arouse too much alarm until the rate and amount of warming

becomes clearer." With net global warming over the past century at ~0.7 degrees celcius, that advice is sage.

More sites:

This one has over 9,000 PhD signatures rejecting global warming and over 31,000 in all. All scientists, by the way.

http://www.petitionproject.org/

For an intersting view of GW from a weather guy with a long career and excellent credentials, including founding the Weather Channel, read John Coleman's address to the 2008 International Conference on Climate Change.

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/16133077.html

Additional resources and comments by John Coleman:

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner

Cheers,

JMC

[R W Burgess]

John, your last one didn't come through.

Wayne

[Guest John Chapman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W Burgess</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John, your last one didn't come through.

Wayne </div></div>

Wayne, thanks. URL link for John Coleman is corrected.

Cheers,

JMC

[Reatta Man]

John,

Your information reminded me of a very good point that has to be considered: is there misinformation, either deliberate or unintentional, on both sides? YES! There has to be! Why? Because much of the information can't be proven or duplicated and so many people have a huge emotional involvement in this discussion.

With that very fact alone in consideration, why would we do anything that could cost thousands of jobs, billions of dollars and possibly even a shift in global wealth, power and influence if we are not sure? WE SHOULD NOT!

Thanks for the very civil response.

Joe

[Guest Skyking]

Quoted from John Coleman.... "People with no scientific knowledge and no reason I can see to take a position, have accepted global warming as their mantra; their religion; their passion; their cause." If you want to call something "Evil", well this is it. This scam is costing people & companys throughtout the world billions of dollars.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With that very fact alone in consideration, why would we do anything that could cost thousands of jobs, billions of dollars and possibly even a shift in global wealth, power and influence if we are not sure? WE SHOULD NOT!</div></div>

And the climatologists and earth scientists that are in the process of disrupting the world economy, throwing many of the their friends and relatives out of work (actually forcing then into other lines of work would be more accurate), making half the items in their own homes obsolete, and who to a man are volunteering to be the first to sacrifice of their own accord to get the ball rolling--not one of them thought of this first????

Boy, are we evil!

<span style="font-style: italic">Deliciously evil!!!</span>

[gassaver1]

old gashog has a smaller insurance premium

http://www.increasingyourgasmileage.blogspot.com/

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gassaver1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">old gashog has a smaller insurance premium</div></div>

Only if you're being ripped-off, which has happened with unscrupulous agents taking advantage of the Prius' novelty.

In reality the Prius has an insurance claim rate that's (in dollars) 26% below the average vehicle on the road ( Insurance Cost Comparisons By Model and Make - Know Before You Get The Hots, theautochannel.com). Most people who buy one replacing a similarly valued car have their insurance reduced substantially. Mine went down $200.00/yr.

[Guest John Chapman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Boy, are we evil!

<span style="font-style: italic">Deliciously evil!!!</span></div></div>

Nope... just stubborn. You've been duped and aren't willing to admit it.

It's <span style="font-style: italic">NOT </span>about global warming. It's about the <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #33CC00"><span style="font-weight: bold">money</span></span></span>. Reparations, anyone? I encourage all to read the contents of the following link. The UN IPCC is a buearacracy (prime directive: continuance, growth, power/control. prime vehicle: create/sustain a problem without actually resolving same)

Here's what it's all about, taken from the notes of the US Senate Committee on Evironment and Public Works on the December 2007 UN IPCC Conference in Bali <span style="font-style: italic">(wonder what the carbon footprint of this boondoggle looked like... Algore is proud!) </span>(Note, where you see the word LINK, the original article is provided on the EPW site):

<span style="font-weight: bold">Global Carbon Tax Urged at UN Climate Conference </span>

A global tax on carbon dioxide emissions was urged to help save the Earth from catastrophic man-made global warming at the United Nations climate conference. A panel of UN participants on Thursday urged the adoption of a tax that would represent <span style="color: #CC0000">“a global burden sharing system, fair, with solidarity, and legally binding to all nations.” </span>

--“$10-$40 billion dollars per year” could be generated by the tax, and wealthy nations like the U.S. would bear the biggest burden based on the “polluters pay principle.”

--“It is very essential to tax coal.”

-- The tens of billions of dollars per year generated by a global tax would <span style="color: #CC0000">“flow into a global Multilateral Adaptation Fund”</span> <span style="color: #3333FF">(established by the UN IPCC)</span> to help nations cope with global warming, according to the report.

<span style="font-weight: bold">'Diminish Future Prosperity' </span>

... ideas like a global tax and the overall UN climate agenda met strong opposition Thursday from a team of over 100 prominent international scientists who warned the UN that attempting to control the Earth's climate was "ultimately futile." The scientists wrote, <span style="color: #CC0000">“The IPCC's conclusions are quite inadequate as justification for implementing policies that will markedly diminish future prosperity. In particular, it is not established that it is possible to significantly alter global climate through cuts in human greenhouse gas emissions."</span> The scientists, many of whom are current or former members of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), sent the December 13 letter to the UN Secretary-General. (See: Over 100 Prominent Scientists Warn UN Against 'Futile' Climate Control Efforts)...

‘Redistribution of Wealth’

The environmental group Friends of the Earth, in attendance in Bali, also advocated the transfer of money from rich to poor nations on Wednesday. <span style="color: #CC0000">“A climate change response must have at its heart a redistribution of wealth and resources,”</span> said Emma Brindal, a climate justice campaigner coordinator for Friends of the Earth. (LINK)

Calls for global regulations and taxes are not new at the UN. Former Vice President Al Gore, who arrived Thursday at the Bali conference, reiterated this week his call to place a price on carbon dioxide emissions. (LINK)

In 2000, then French President Jacques Chirac said the UN’s Kyoto Protocol represented <span style="color: #CC0000">"the first component of an authentic global governance."</span> Former EU Environment Minister Margot Wallstrom said, "Kyoto is about the economy, about leveling the playing field for big businesses worldwide." Canadian Prime Minster Stephen Harper once dismissed Kyoto as a “socialist scheme.” (LINK) <span style="color: #3333FF">(Ed Note: If this paragraph doesn't scare the pants off of you, nothing will... the UN wants to control everything.)</span>

'A Bureaucrat's Dream'

MIT climate scientist Dr. Richard Lindzen warned about these types of carbon regulations earlier this year. <span style="color: #CC0000">"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life,"</span> Lindzen said in March 2007. (LINK)

In addition, many critics have often charged that proposed <span style="color: #CC0000">tax and regulatory “solutions” were more important to the promoters of man-made climate fears than the accuracy of their science.</span>

Former Colorado Senator Tim Wirth reportedly said in 1990, <span style="color: #CC0000">"We've got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing — in terms of economic policy and environmental policy."</span> (LINK)

Don't tell me it's about polar ice, flooding Florida, and APG. It's about making the US and Western Europe pay, and pay dearly. The UN IPCC sees itself as the arbiter of the money and the graft and corruption within the UN has been raised to a high art form. Oil for food, anyone?

Check your wallets at the door.

Cheers,

JMC

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

In reality the Prius has an insurance claim rate that's (in dollars) 26% below the average vehicle on the road ( Insurance Cost Comparisons By Model and Make - Know Before You Get The Hots, theautochannel.com). Most people who buy one replacing a similarly valued car have their insurance reduced substantially. Mine went down $200.00/yr. </div></div>

One has to wonder just how much the data in this article has changed in the <span style="font-weight: bold">3 years and 4 months </span>since this article was published.

Is there more current data available????????

[Dave@Moon]

John, like I said to Joe:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone who would knowingly cause or encourage as much pain as fixing this is going to cause, and who would do it for no good reason, is evil. Period.

You have to ask yourself, are virtually all the scientists on earth evil or not? </div></div>

There's no <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">motive</span></span> in anything you posted beyond <span style="font-style: italic">wanting to "control the world" and make the rich nations pay</span>. Otherwise what you've posted is a litany of the very same pain I was describing. Didn't you wonder why I posted pictures of Dr. Evil on this thread?

You might have nailed the ambitions of a few simpletons running the U.N. consulate for some dung-heap of a country somewhere (and I doubt/hope that that isn't true), but that doesn't explain one person working at Harvard, Yale, Cornell, or Kings County Community College.

You still have thousands upon thousands of true scientists to account for, none of who have anything to do with the U.N.'s solution to climate change or any other <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> nothing materially to gain.

The dupe is that everything is money. That people who do anything or say anything are doing so just for what they can take from you, that the whole world is a scam, and that all other people (and their representatives in government) are nothing more than parasites. It's the mindset of the past, now (thank goodness). The mindset of <span style="font-style: italic">Fox News</span>, Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh, and about 90% of the political attack ads of the last decade. It's the mindset that inspired <span style="font-style: italic">The Colbert Report</span>, and nothing else of use.

As I said to you on your first post on this subject here, it's a matter of faith at this point, not knowledge, that runs the opposition to climate change action. I have a different faith in people.

<span style="color: #993399"><span style="font-weight: bold">NOW, you will all give me my ONE MILLION DOLLARS!!!!</span></span>

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Is there more current data available????????

</div></div>

I couldn't find any, but repair costs on the Prius have been declining as more of them are on the road (especially for the dreaded--by some people--battery replacement) and my insurance rates barely changed in 3 years.

[Reatta Man]

Dave,

You have hit upon the real problem many of us have that would just like to know the truth.

UN: The UN has a horrible history of fraud, bribery, mismanaging contracts and being in bed with some of the worst dictators in the world. So, when someone sees "UN" attached to anything that could or would dictate how we operate as a nation, such as regulating what OUR factories can produce from an unelected body with their track record, yeah, I for one don't trust them.

KYOTO PROTOCOLS: When I see a proposed list of actions against the U.S. that seem to NOT apply to other nations that produce as much if not more so-called green house gases, I think what the.....?

Then I hear the excuses that we (they) can't put the same restrictions on so-called developing nations, it reminds me of the fraud associated with the U.N., and how factories in third-world nations can continue producing tainted goods with belching smoke stacks while I see GM, Ford and Chrysler workers loosing their jobs. Give me a break; that doesn't pass any test of fairness or playing on a level playing field.

And if you can't have all the players in this global economy living by the same standards, I say no thanks to free trade with these people who, it seems to me, are just using treaties and the corrupt UN to get a financial advantage.

Now you may not agree with this position, but to some, including me, it DOES seem to always come back to money and greed.

Until and or if you can seperate the science and facts from those who seem to have an agenda of how we can make others rich by using this process or this information, I can't go along with the movement.

Joe

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Until and or if you can seperate the science and facts from those who seem to have an agenda of how we can make others rich by using this process or this information, I can't go along with the movement. </div></div>

Facts that delineate a crisis are not (of themselves) a "movement". You have to be certain not to be taken advantage of when you buy a car, a bus pass or a sack of oranges. That doesn't mean all commerce is a dupe. Why would you expect not to have the same responsibility in this endeavour?

[Restorer32]

Nice 2005 Prius on e-bay rght now, 170,000 miles, needng batteries.

[Dave@Moon]

If it's not overpriced you can buy it and this battery on eBay for $800 and put together a nice car, as long as you don't have to buy tires too.

[Matt Harwood]

With all due respect, John, because I find your posts to be among the most well-thought-out and articulated, it seems that the areas you've highlighted above merely suggest that trying to fix global warming is ultimately futile, not that it isn't happening.

Any problem has people trying to find ways to make money from it to the extent that the search for that cash cow becomes the primary objective, not a solution. For instance, crime is going up because there's a lot of money to be made in the prison system. People aren't committing more crimes, more acts are being considered jailable offenses. You're spot-on with the belief that much of this proposed global warming management is graft not really intended to solve the problem. Sadly, it's largely designed to solve the problem of people in authority who want more money in their pockets.

Fossil fuel usage is only going to go up, as well as carbon emissions of all sorts. Whatever we don't use, China and India and Russia will, and their controls are pretty lax. Paying such a global tax would probably be cheaper for them than actually fixing the problem (not that such a tax could ever become reality anyway). Add in the fact that the UN is mostly impotent, it's a pipe dream to enact in any effective way.

However, I still subscribe to the belief that regardless of whether global warming is real, it certainly doesn't hurt to try to make improvements. If it is real, and we do nothing, it's an ignorant blunder of colossal proportions.

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Restorer32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice 2005 Prius on e-bay rght now, 170,000 miles, needng batteries. </div></div>

Well, I guess that proves it once and for all. They're all crap.

[Reatta Man]

LOL

Hey, at 170,000 miles, <span style="font-weight: bold">all of us </span>would probably need a new battery and tires!

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Is there more current data available????????

</div></div>

I couldn't find any, but repair costs on the Prius have been declining as more of them are on the road (especially for the dreaded--by some people--battery replacement) and my insurance rates barely changed in 3 years. </div></div>

Thanks. Was wondering since I beleive Prius sales in the last three years have been growing a lot more than previous years.

That means more of them on the road and a potentially higher risk which could impact insurance ratings and costs.

I guess it all comes down to loss data and repair costs when it comes to rates.

The insurance rates on my Toyota 4Runner have also barely changed in the last 4 years.

Have to wonder which Toyota models are seeing higher insurace ratings and the higher rates that go with them.

[Guest John Chapman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone who would knowingly cause or encourage as much pain as fixing this is going to cause, and who would do it for no good reason, is evil. Period. </div></div>

I think the case of intent to use the boogie man of CO2-caused APG is absolute proof of the evil intent. It is unfortunate that good scientists have drunk of the IPCC Kool Aid. You have to remember, that the IPCC is populated by the same agency that has brought us such wonders as: Making Lybia the chair of the UN High Commission on Civil Rights, Oil for Food, electing Sudan (spelled genocide) as the HC on Human Rights, too many construction frauds to count (like the renovation of the NYC headquarters... 450% overrun).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to ask yourself, are virtually all the scientists on earth evil or not? </div></div>

OK, Dave... it is NOT "virtually all" scientists on earth by any stretch. There is a significant and growing population of scientists, particularly in the meteorological, oceanographic, and atmospheric communities that have come forward to discount the theory of APG/greenhouse effect/CO2 forcing. The consensus is a myth.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's no <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">motive</span></span> ... beyond <span style="font-style: italic">wanting to "control the world" and make the rich nations pay</span>.</div></div>

Agree. What more incentive do you need?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You might have nailed the ambitions of a few simpletons running the U.N. consulate for some dung-heap of a country somewhere (and I doubt/hope that that isn't true), but that doesn't explain one person working at Harvard, Yale, Cornell, or Kings County Community College. </div></div>

It is more than a few. And they are not simpletons, quite the contrary. A corrupt simpleton can ruin an afternoon. A group of corrupt simpletons can ruin a large city or state. A group of corrupt genuiusus can ruin the world for a century. And, never underestimate the power of large groups of dumb people... the UN knows this one well. The unfortunate thing about the educational institutions you cite is that they are steeped in the broth of socialistic dogma, where thought critical (or critical thought for that matter) of that point of view is crushed and bred out.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You still have thousands upon thousands of true scientists to account for, none of who have anything to do with the U.N.'s solution to climate change or any other <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> nothing materially to gain.</div></div>

See above. It's still not a consensus.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The dupe is that everything is money. As I said to you on your first post on this subject here, it's a matter of faith at this point, not knowledge, that runs the opposition to climate change action. I have a different faith in people.</div></div>

Please wake up. It's all about the money (and subsequent power). As Willie Sutton said when asked why he robbed banks: "Because that's where the money is..." The UN is a socialist and corrupt organization. They shake down the west because they appeal to our sense of justice and because that's who has the money that they can get to that way. Won't happen in Japan, any Arab country, or Russia. They'd be promptly told to go stuff themselves.

I invite your attention to today's news about carbon taxes.

Cheers,

JMC

[Guest John Chapman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With all due respect, John, because I find your posts to be among the most well-thought-out and articulated, </div></div>

Thanks!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it seems that the areas you've highlighted above merely suggest that trying to fix global warming is ultimately futile, not that it isn't happening.</div></div>

I think there are seveal issues here:

1. Is there, in fact, global warming? Virtually all of the UN IPCC methodology, modeling, and data interpretation (note the subtle nuance) have been disproved by reputable scientists.

2. If there is global warming (honest assessment of data indicates not) is it something we can stop, and if so, should we?

3. There is a substantial increase in atmospheric CO2. The impact is not determined. I think it prudent to take positive, non-punitive steps to reduce our output. Is it really causing a greenhouse effect (CO2 forcing)?

3. We must reduce our consumption of petrolium.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any problem has people trying to find ways to make money from it to the extent that the search for that cash cow becomes the primary objective, not a solution. For instance, crime is going up because there's a lot of money to be made in the prison system. People aren't committing more crimes, more acts are being considered jailable offenses. </div></div>

Concur... but, I'd submit that our rampant drug culture is responible for at least a 50% portion of incarcerations. 'Hard' crime rates are down in general.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're spot-on with the belief that much of this proposed global warming management is graft not really intended to solve the problem. Sadly, it's largely designed to solve the problem of people in authority who want more money in their pockets. </div></div>

Precisely my point. In this case, those people run the UN, and have for decades.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fossil fuel usage is only going to go up, as well as carbon emissions of all sorts. Whatever we don't use, China and India and Russia will, and their controls are pretty lax. Paying such a global tax would probably be cheaper for them than actually fixing the problem (not that such a tax could ever become reality anyway). Add in the fact that the UN is mostly impotent, it's a pipe dream to enact in any effective way. </div></div>

Don't kid yourself about the power of the UN. See my post to D@M with respect to groups of corrupt smart people.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However, I still subscribe to the belief that regardless of whether global warming is real, it certainly doesn't hurt to try to make improvements. If it is real, and we do nothing, it's an ignorant blunder of colossal proportions. </div></div>

Well, the globe warms and cools, yes? So it to some extent is real. I think the cataclysmic view is way over the top. Environmental concerns are pretty much the luxury of societies with significant surplus. When you exist at/just above subsistance level, you don't give a rat's butt about clean air. You won't see animal rights activists in those societies either.

I stand by my earlier proclamations that high gas prices are going to be good for us ultimately. The bright side is that by and large, more efficient is cleaner, so we ultimately get closer to the goal.

Cheers,

JMC

[Dave@Moon]

Like I said, John, I'm not interested in religious conversion at this point. Rail against the U.N. all you like. It ain't me, The National Academy of Sciences, NASA, NOAA, Earth First, the Democratic/Republican Party, Princeton U., or Greenpeace...but I'll bet it feels good.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The consensus is a myth. </div></div>

If you want it to be. I wish it was.

[Guest John Chapman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like I said, John, I'm not interested in religious conversion at this point. Rail against the U.N. all you like. It ain't me, The National Academy of Sciences, NASA, NOAA, Earth First, the Democratic/Republican Party, Princeton U., or Greenpeace...but I'll bet it feels good.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The consensus is a myth. </div></div>

If you want it to be. I wish it was. </div></div>

What? No Starbucks? Shazbot!

JMC

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">old gashog has a smaller insurance premium</div></div> It's probably due to the lack of desire by thieves. When the market is high for a certain vehicle, then the theft is most likely high as well.

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ex98thdrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">old gashog has a smaller insurance premium</div></div> It's probably due to the lack of desire by thieves. When the market is high for a certain vehicle, then the theft is most likely high as well. </div></div>

If this is true, then insurance rates for smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles will be rising in the future.

With the announcement by Toyota of a plant in the USA to build the Prius and the bump in supply that will provide,

one has to wonder if the price of both new and pre-owned Prius cars will stabilize or go down. Time will tell..

[Matt Harwood]

I wonder if batteries for Priuses will become a hot black-market commodity like airbags once there are a lot of them on the road. In the cases of the most popular cars to steal, the parts are often more vaulable than the cars.

[R W Burgess]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">will become a hot black-market commodity like airbags... </div></div>

.....or catalytic converters here in Virginia. They have been cutting them off, right and left (NO offence, political friends!).

They even caught a couple guys cutting converters while the owners were in church on a Sunday morning service, right in the church yard, broad daylight!!!?????

Wayne

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if batteries for Priuses will become a hot black-market commodity like airbags once there are a lot of them on the road. In the cases of the most popular cars to steal, the parts are often more vaulable than the cars. </div></div>

The battery is under the back seat. To get to it you have to remove the floor and sub-floor of the trunk, the spare and jack (in it's carrier), and the (bolted) seat as well as a bunch of trim and cooling apparatus. It's a simple bolt in at that point. It'd be tough to do unnoticed (the shear volume of stuff is daunting, but not difficult), so stealing the car to strip it would be the only real way.

Fortuantely stealing a Prius is a really tall order. The (rare) base models use a chip recognition key fob (the metal key in it only opens the door in emergencies), and most use a proximity key, each of which randomizes recognition signals. It takes an expensive "code-rolling" UHF device to steal one, and anyone with that kind of investment is more likely to use it to steal Lexus and BMW cars. The Prius ranks 117th on the most stolen list despite it's high parts value (the wheels bring more than the battery).

[R W Burgess]

Rollback...Rollback!!!

We don't need no stinking keys!

W.

[Guest John Chapman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...cases of the most popular cars to steal, the parts are often more vaulable than the cars. </div></div>

I was really surprised by the recent top ten stolen car list... headed by a 1995 Civic. It has to be for parts, otherwise it's sorta like stealing a large appliance.

Cheers,

JMC

[joe_padavano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: John Chapman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...cases of the most popular cars to steal, the parts are often more vaulable than the cars. </div></div>

I was really surprised by the recent top ten stolen car list... headed by a 1995 Civic. It has to be for parts, otherwise it's sorta like stealing a large appliance.

Cheers,

JMC </div></div>

It's for parts. Remember when the Olds Cutlass was the number one selling car in the late 1970s? It also topped the list of most stolen, again for parts to sell to repair shops.

[Sweepspear]

What I would like to know from the global warming crowd is, just what is the ideal temperature the climate should be?

They surely must have a benchmark they are comparing to.

No matter what happens, they blame global warming.

Warm winter? Global Warming.

Cold winter? Global warming.

An unusually high number of hurricanes? Global warming.

No hurricanes? Global warming.

And so on, and so forth to ad nauseam.

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W Burgess</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rollback...Rollback!!!

We don't need no stinking keys!

W. </div></div>

One would think that a conventional tow truck with the wheel lift would be faster.

That would only work, of course, if the parking brake on a Prius is a cable that can be cut.

[R W Burgess]

Charlie, any rollback has a cable or chain with hooks. You hook the frame, snatch it out from between cars, sliding her right up the aluminum bed, dragging the tires along the way. Afterall, they're after the expensive stuff, not worrying about flat spotted tires.

Wayne