edinmass
-
Posts
16,973 -
Joined
-
Days Won
546
Content Type
Forums
Gallery
Events
Posts posted by edinmass
-
-
1 minute ago, prewarnut said:
How would you compare the performance of the White to the slightly newer Lincoln V8? I'd assume the White has more low end torque but would the Lincoln be more manouverable/easier to steer with smaller wheels?
Ok, you want me to piss off a bunch of guys? Totally different animals. The White of 1917 is a better platform than the “L” Lincoln’s. It’s faster, smoother, and easier to drive. The Lincoln stops much better with two wheel brakes. I expect the Lincoln will do better on long hills.............but I honestly haven’t driven very early Lincoln’s mort than a few hundred miles. My love affair with Lincoln automobiles begins with the KB series......
-
1
-
1
-
-
4 hours ago, jrbartlett said:
Does the Ford transmission incorporate machine learning?
Absolutely.......it adjusts to the drivers specific style of throttle control. Of course putting it in tow range setting runs a different program. The computer senses injector pulse width at a given speed to figure out load on the truck. Trying to improve or seconded guessing the program with modifications is folly.......it will smoke the unit. I have seen it a handful of times in the last few years. Keep them stock.-
2
-
-
1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:
I thought ethanol was added to RAISE octane! Am I mis-informed?
Ben
Yup, raises octane and delivers less energy per gallon, and has a lower specific gravity. And on paper the stoichometry ratio is the same......but it isn’t.-
2
-
-
5 hours ago, George K said:
Looking through period lists of vehicles one could buy still don’t see a16V4 listed 1915 or 1916. In all you vast data you must have a sales piece offering such a model.
In order 1915,1916, 1917 and 1918. Waiting to see the data. Thanks
Using that logic......where are the 6-60 White cars listed in your charts? They were manufactured from 1912 to 1916.........just because you have a source, you think it has everything in it? Or are you going to argue they didn’t build a 6-60 series car? As there are six of them remaining. Since the casting date is what HCCA has used for over 70 years to identify and allow Model T’s in the club...........the White’s block will automatically allow it in. I guess the 6-60 is just another White truck with a car body on it........and as far as Wikipedia goes for a source, that you quoted earlier.........they didn’t have a mention or source for the 4 valve engine in the listing........until I added it in.So, it was incorrect for twenty years........till I fixed it.
-
2
-
-
More photos from Yellowstone.......with White cars and busses, and one post dire Lincoln ..........enjoy
-
3
-
1
-
-
So, while I haven’t previously disclosed it here, I have spent countless hours on the White Motor Car Company, and their products. Yes, they made bicycles..........got one. Hasn’t arrived yet, neither has the sewing machine. I have hundreds of great photos of cars, trucks, and other products they built.......here are just a few. Including a crated 1917 truck shipped to France..........I probably have a thousand photos now.......
-
1
-
-
-
The carriage house converted to bus garage, before the fire in 1919. And a photo of the “new” 1925 garage that still stands and is in use today we are going to bring the 1917 out for the 100 anniversary of the building in a few years......
-
1
-
-
Here is a screen shot of the fire that wiped out half the fleet in 1925. A few photos also........
-
2
-
-
In front of the lodge, a fleet White, in standard garb. The car is a 1916 White 16 Valve, 72 horsepower. There was an 82 HP version offered, but none of the bigger units were known to get into the fleet.
-
1
-
-
Here is the sole surviving 1916 White national park car, from 1916.As one would expect, big batch orders meant special order equipment. In this case, lights and snubbers. Also a special gear ratio for park cars, using the standard four speed White manufactured transmission. The park cars also has special wheels. The. Ick name for park drivers, given to them by the tourists????? Gear Jammers! And the name stuck, and applies to bus drivers today. Photo is a poor screen shot, sorry.
-
2
-
-
Here is a 1920 photo, of the one hundred sixteen White 16 valve fleet delivered in May and June 1916, as recorded by the factory records, and from the archives of the Yellowstone Fleet Trust. Some 300 White cars, trucks, and buses were in use at the national parks. When the fire swept through the park in the mid 20’s, all the cars were lost( in Yellowstone, other parks had a few, and one survives.) and they started buying Lincoln cars.....but they continued with White buses well into the 50’s. The archive is still closed due to covid, so I can’t get a high res scan till they open again.....which will be in the spring.
-
3
-
-
30 minutes ago, alsancle said:
This picture is from Nov 1915. Ed's car is 1915. Not that it really matters much.
Neat photo. That’s a short chassis 45 hp car.-
1
-
-
8 minutes ago, SC38DLS said:
Is that Ed driving in the picture?
Yup, that’s me. Fifty years and nine months before I was born! I’m always early for every appointment. 👍👍-
2
-
-
50 minutes ago, George K said:
Ed, If a club allows a vehicle in their ranks that’s within their purview. My response is regard your statement of 1915. I have researched for my reasons many cars. I can’t find evidence to back 1915/1916 16V4 production. As an expert your should welcome review. All I ask as a fellow research is proof. No matter how hard I squint I still cannot see it.
George..........I have more stuff, but the Zenith information, the other car thats been in the HCCA for 50 years, the club file....all should point to it as a platform offered in late 14 and early 15. I ran it past a few current and past national Horseless guys..........all said no problem.
-
George....I don't feel the need to callout a claim. I'm the leading expert on gas White car in existence as far as I know. I own multiple cars, from all eras and don't much care what others think as to its date. The HCCA sales literature they have on hand at the foundation library is dated 1914. So the date shouldn't be even close to any issue. I'm certain the HCCA people won't have an issue with it..........half the T's are bogus on the tours. As well as most of the "same as" year cars that run from 1915 to 1917. I expect to add two more White's to the collection in the near future. One gas, and one steam. I'm only interested in large horsepower cars..........the 35 & 45 units are great cars, but I want more power for safety in todays driving world. The 60 hp six is interesting, and there are a few sitting dorment for over twenty years. I'm gonna try and pry one away even though they are smaller than my 1917 Rubay 7 passenger car.
PS- WHITE CARS ARE NOT TRUCKS. I can say that as I have worked on both cars and trucks, and have driven a Yellowstone bus. The rear ends, front ends, hubs, wheels, spindles, frames, springs, steering box, radiator and support are ALL marked with the word "CAR". See the wheel bearing photo below.........clearly marked car..........I own more sales data and folders than anyone else I have spoken too.......including the surviving family members.......one of which owns more than 8 cars. I can prove it's not a 1917.......and I have serial numbers on all the suriving 16 valve cars. Three of the five are pre 1916.
-
2
-
-
Not even parts.
-
1
-
-
Catching a plane, behind on work and chores. Was out of town for weeks, returned for three days, now gone again for Hershey.....still jet lagged. But all is as well as can be expected.
-
Terry.........talk to the weather man please.........he’s not predicting a washout by any means, but sunny and dry would be nice after missing last year.
-
2
-
-
I’m always the first guy to call a project car a parts car..........but in this instance.......I wouldn’t do it too fast. These things are hot on the market right now. Two much worse cars are in professional shops being restored......probably at 750k or more. Add in that one won its class at Pebble this year against a bunch of fantastic European stuff...........I would say project........not parts. Just my two cents.
-
1
-
-
9 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:
Ed:
A Cleveland, Ohio coachbuilder of "California tops", why not? Those were a practical solution for the Northeast as well where protection from inclement weather and the capability to heat the passenger compartment would be desirable features for costlier prestige cars. The well-off fell out of love with the open touring faster than the general population and had the wherewithal to indulge in closed car comfort much sooner. Those sliding beveled glass windows are not only practical but also a rich detail that would have appealed to the upscale customers of the day.
Comparing the body design proportions and details of the two Rubay bodies, I'd opine the 1915 may not be the design work of Thomas Hibbard whereas the 1917 definitely is. The 1917 has just a degree of finesse the 1915 lacks.
Steve
Steve, It’s certainly not a Tom Hibbard design like my 1917. Interestingly I met his grandson at a car show last year in Wellington Florida while showing my first White. He immediately recognized it as his grandfather’s work. Referencing it to the first “barrel side“ Duesenberg body. He gave me the heads up on the article in the American Scientific Frontier magazine article on the special awards Tom Hibbard won with the 1917 Rubay body offerings. They called it the first modern and practical design layout for a motor car ever done. Referencing the radiator/hood/cowl/ and light treatment. I have a copy of the article.
-
1
-
-
7 hours ago, George K said:
Did White offer the 16V4 in their catalog in 1915 or 1916? What’s the car titled as? Were Kimes and Clark Jr. that wrong.
You don’t see 1928 DV-32’s in the Stutz listing either......and there are two and possibly three of them running around. A list made in the 70’s and 80’s isn’t going to be definitive. Beverly was a close friend and I wrote and published along with providing research to her. Here is a library listing for the HCFI automotive research library, listing the 16 Valve Four in 1914...........since my car is identical to the town car, I’m comfortable with calling it a 1915 also. I think it’s definitive that the HCCA’s own foundation research library has a 1914 16 Valve Four piece of literature in it that the engine was announced and used......and the casting date nails it down also. The Zenith carb listing shows application and engineering info for 1915. It eliminates the question of when the engine was available.......who would list and make parts for something that doesn’t exist?
-
1918 models were just identical to 1917’s. 1917 and 1918’s had single plug heads, Eismann magnetos, vacuum tanks, the fancy round headlight lenses, different dash and engine gauges, different steering column and wheel, and did not have cowl vents or cowl parking lights.........all showed in the sales literature. Engine block casting differences are also apparent. My second car is mechanically identical to the 1915 town car currently in the Michigan. It was on display at the event in Gilmore this summer. The lights, radiator, windshield are all brass. All 1917 & 1918 cars had body tags and sills by Rubay. So it’s definitely not a 17 or 18. Also, 17 & 18 had different carburetors............1915 used a Zenith, see the listing below showing a 1915 16 Valve Four carburetor application. Which is what I have on the car.........that someone used JB Welded to fix the defect on. There is also one 3/4 ton truck with a 16 Valve Four engine in it. It is also a 1915. One of the interesting things about White Motor Cars is how unique they are........”rule of thumb” just doesn’t apply.
-
The engine was announced in September of 1914. There is a 1915 car in Michigan with the identical systems. I have not seen any 16 Valve Four that has dual plugs that wasn’t called a 1915. The National Data Book for 1917 doesn’t show the dual plug ignition system or the twin dual two spark battery/mag combo. My 1917 car doesn’t have the casting date in the same location. It has a very late casting date in 1916. White offered cars with a 45 horse power four, a 60 horsepower six, and the 72/82 horsepower 16 Valve four ALL AT THE SAME TIME. The second car has a different steering column and wheel as well. When I get a chance to study it, I’m certain we will find a bunch of other differences.
The Wandering White Thread - A Custom 1915 Rare White Finds A Good Home In Florida
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
Here is a 1915 White, 16 Valve Four, it’s a twin plug, dual- twin spark battery over magneto ignition, with a 1914 casting date in the block. It’s either in the original family or purchased from the original owner family and now still in the same family for decades......I honestly can’t remember the exact story that was related to me. It’s been in the HCCA for fifty years.......it’s and identical power plant/platform to my car.......with a higher engine number than mine.....go figure. It attended the Horseless Carriage Museum inaugural event in June at the Gilmore Museum Complex along with 150 other brass cars. Owned buy a great guy who has helped me with manufacturing parts for the dual valve motors.........he’s rather low profile, and his cars tend to be camera shy, so it’s the only photo I will post......this photo is in the public domain, so I share it here.
Back at the shop, I have some 1916 factory White literature announcing the end of the White six cylinder engine because the four valves motor makes them outdated. I think it was dated September, but I can’t check for a couple of weeks till I get back in town.