edinmass
-
Posts
16,966 -
Joined
-
Days Won
545
Content Type
Forums
Gallery
Events
Posts posted by edinmass
-
-
I plan on attending, with something interesting..........not sure just which era yet.
-
1 hour ago, ericmac said:
This car is almost screaming at me "bid, bid bid!" I know it has a lot wrong with a, but what a car!
No, it’s screaming I need fifty grand to become a driver that is reliable. And someone who knows what they are doing.........that 215 Gemmer is gonna be hammered also.
-
Seems White, painted a lot of their cars white. I have a half dozen original photos on my hard drive down south. It would be an interesting color choice for my car if I restored it.......not gonna happen!
-
1
-
-
Here is a 1917 White, sold to the US government and used at a Navy base. I like the script on the radiator, and think I will add it to my car. Front bumper is different than mine, and possibly a few other small details that I need to stand in front of my car to verify. It’s a favorite photo of the many I have in my collection.
-
8
-
-
There are several great books done on the Cleveland car companies......mostly done in the 60’s and 70’s. I don’t have them up north, but they go into great detail on the car production and industrial vehicle production of the city. I will post photos of the books when I get back south. Peerless, Stearns, Winton, and others shared many of the body building companies that were around the area. They are worthwhile reading if you want to understand how the turn of the century industrialized cities went from horses to modern transportation.
-
2
-
1
-
-
It has been written and rumored that much of the 1917 production went to the US military. Here is one car, that made its way to the US Nancey and a Navy base.........interesting paint. And only the US government could afford to buy a monster like this one for 5200 bucks. The Franco American Tour also used White trucks and cars...........the tour was over two thousand miles, and done to prove the value and abilities of White vehicles. They didn’t have a single break down for the entire trip..........
On the photo below, we have a few interesting details.......the White script on the radiator, the flag holder on the radiator neck, and a cloth winter front to keep the car warm......the radiators are so large the cars never really warm up fully.
-
2
-
1
-
-
With the exception of the AC Plug ad, I have the other posted material. I have an extensive pile acquired over the last 18 months, most from nice members here sending it my way from the first car. It’s amazing what can be found on the White company. Cleveland was a huge manufacturing hub, and many people made an effort to preserve much of that history. Peerless, White, Stearns, Winton, and a bunch of others were manufactured in the city, and the corresponding companies they used as suppliers also flourished. My first car, the seven passenger conforms to all the 1917 type literature issues from about September 16 on. The new car is totally different in chassis, body (style not offered), components, dash, Ext, Ext ect. The company made 45 hp cars as well as the 6-60 and when one looks at it critically, I think the company decided to quit auto manufacturing.......and then reversed themselves. I think the 16V4 was probably a back burner or slow roll project........from war work and trucks. The platform by late 16 or early 17 took off.......according to records just over 1000 engines were manufactured, and I have seen photos and survivors with numbers high enough to think the numbers of engines quoted are correct. Question to ponder is why are there only five engines that are in fours cars and one stand alone that survive from those numbers. A hot rod engine with this much horsepower and a four speed over drive should have been popular with the speedster crowd after the war. The White motor as making more hp than 99 percent of the auto world...........he’ll, it’s still fast today. The Stutz Bearcat was making fifteen horsepower LESS. The 45 HP cars are not particularly prolific in survival rates considering the numbers built. After the steam cars ended, White only built cars as a sideline.......truck production was MUCH more lucrative. Since the old man White bankrolled the body companies for both cars and trucks, and went on to buy them out, by the time WWI was in full swing.........they had acquired both body suppliers......Rubay and Kuntz.
-
1
-
-
1 minute ago, mike6024 said:
There are two versions of this folder......the one above is in the HCCA foundation library. As you can see, it’s dated 1914. Two engines are known to have 1914 casting dates. I have not seen a 16V4 with a 1917 casting date yet.......all are 1914 to 1916 so far.-
1
-
-
The town car is definitely as built and delivered. The truck? Who knows, best guess is it’s right as the story was it’s still on the original farm. I think it was so easy for White to toss anything together that the customer wanted they just did it. Also, using up out of date engines would be easy in trucks......they hardly ever changed back before WWII. The body on my second White is definitely much more in the “normal high end range” compared to my 1917 car. The doors are heavier, larger, and overall much more massive.
Look at all the truck chassis White built at the same time........take 1915-1919. 3/4 ton, 1 ton, 1 1/4 ton, 1 1/2 ton, 2 ton, 3 ton, 5 ton..........hell, it was insane. 1 1/2 ton trucks could be single or dual rear wheel. I have seen at least one 1 ton with dual rear wheels. The permutations of what they could build was almost endless. My 1917 frame is most certainly a car frame......but it’s as heavy as a 3/4 to 1 ton truck frame. The 1917 White is HEAVY, and you can feel it in the trailer like it’s a Super Eight Limo. The White cars are built like a truck.......they were meant to be serviced and designed to never break. Working on them for a few hours, and you always come out impressed with what they built back in the day.
-
2
-
-
10 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:
I would like to have the wheels for my future Full Classic tow truck project.
I don’t think the wheels will fit the Lincoln K chassis...........🤔-
2
-
-
1 minute ago, Ozstatman said:
Of course!
Just not popular today! 😎-
3
-
-
1 minute ago, Ozstatman said:
Open and spirited discussion is fine......-
4
-
-
YES- it’s a 16V4
There is a 16V4 3/4 ton truck in Ohio. They call it a 1915, I have photos, but am not allowed to share as the restoration shop trusted me with them, and want them private.
Also, I have photos of one 6-60 bus.....dated 1915......not sure if it’s correct, but it is labeled as such and is rumored to survive.
George......that’s the issue with just about any car company that also made trucks......so much experimental, low production, and “test platforms” were done that it’s hard to define anything. The car is as built........ it’s a hybrid chassis as far as I can tell. There were no less than four different car chassis from 1915-1917 from what I have observed. (Wheel size and chassis length also were not consistent.) White truck business was tailored to fleet production and factory “batch” production. Honestly cars weren’t their main concern.......kind of strange why they kept at it. Add in that White was bankrolling Rubay and Kuntz and it gets even stranger.......that the same company was making high end one off stylish car bodies, as well as truck cabs and beds. (Don’t forget school and church furniture.)
The car above has the same steering box, wheel and column, engine, transmission, ignition, and fuel system as my second White car. Front axel is different. We’re they using up supplies until they ran out? Probably. In the end.......White motor vehicles were more packages and components assembled in semi custom orders. Easy back then, complicated and expensive today.
Some White cars had tags on the firewall independent of the engine and chassis number. Some had tags and chassis numbers that matched, and others didn’t have any tags. I think body builder had something to do with it. Also, on my hard top or California Top, that was a sub let to another Cleveland company......which I can prove........ so my second White doesn’t have any firewall data plate, no chassis number stamped in the normal place, just an engine number. What is interesting........all the dual valve four’s part numbers have been cast into place on many/most parts.........so you can ID what platform/engine/model the part fits.
As far as the sixes go......they were still selling them into mid 1916.......could they actually deliver one? Or were they just using up inventory? if you want to talk crazy, there are ads in Spanish for 1919 and 1920 White motor cars that were being run in South America...........two years after production was finished. Rumor is that they built less than 20 cars in 1918. I have never seen proof of a 1918 White car.......just numbers on a page, and where they came from is anyone’s guess.
-
1
-
-
Interesting read.......there seem to be two ten speeds, light duty for a F150, and the heavier unit for the super duties.......
-
2
-
-
13 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said:
The Ford 10 speed transmission was jointly developed with GM and is in the heavy duty GMC and Chevys. Programming is different.
Who is manufacturing the unit? The newer generation Allison is very nice, but the 10 speed is fantastic.
-
Here is a 1915 White, 16 Valve Four, it’s a twin plug, dual- twin spark battery over magneto ignition, with a 1914 casting date in the block. It’s either in the original family or purchased from the original owner family and now still in the same family for decades......I honestly can’t remember the exact story that was related to me. It’s been in the HCCA for fifty years.......it’s and identical power plant/platform to my car.......with a higher engine number than mine.....go figure. It attended the Horseless Carriage Museum inaugural event in June at the Gilmore Museum Complex along with 150 other brass cars. Owned buy a great guy who has helped me with manufacturing parts for the dual valve motors.........he’s rather low profile, and his cars tend to be camera shy, so it’s the only photo I will post......this photo is in the public domain, so I share it here.
Back at the shop, I have some 1916 factory White literature announcing the end of the White six cylinder engine because the four valves motor makes them outdated. I think it was dated September, but I can’t check for a couple of weeks till I get back in town.
-
2
-
-
1 minute ago, prewarnut said:
How would you compare the performance of the White to the slightly newer Lincoln V8? I'd assume the White has more low end torque but would the Lincoln be more manouverable/easier to steer with smaller wheels?
Ok, you want me to piss off a bunch of guys? Totally different animals. The White of 1917 is a better platform than the “L” Lincoln’s. It’s faster, smoother, and easier to drive. The Lincoln stops much better with two wheel brakes. I expect the Lincoln will do better on long hills.............but I honestly haven’t driven very early Lincoln’s mort than a few hundred miles. My love affair with Lincoln automobiles begins with the KB series......
-
1
-
1
-
-
4 hours ago, jrbartlett said:
Does the Ford transmission incorporate machine learning?
Absolutely.......it adjusts to the drivers specific style of throttle control. Of course putting it in tow range setting runs a different program. The computer senses injector pulse width at a given speed to figure out load on the truck. Trying to improve or seconded guessing the program with modifications is folly.......it will smoke the unit. I have seen it a handful of times in the last few years. Keep them stock.-
2
-
-
1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:
I thought ethanol was added to RAISE octane! Am I mis-informed?
Ben
Yup, raises octane and delivers less energy per gallon, and has a lower specific gravity. And on paper the stoichometry ratio is the same......but it isn’t.-
2
-
-
5 hours ago, George K said:
Looking through period lists of vehicles one could buy still don’t see a16V4 listed 1915 or 1916. In all you vast data you must have a sales piece offering such a model.
In order 1915,1916, 1917 and 1918. Waiting to see the data. Thanks
Using that logic......where are the 6-60 White cars listed in your charts? They were manufactured from 1912 to 1916.........just because you have a source, you think it has everything in it? Or are you going to argue they didn’t build a 6-60 series car? As there are six of them remaining. Since the casting date is what HCCA has used for over 70 years to identify and allow Model T’s in the club...........the White’s block will automatically allow it in. I guess the 6-60 is just another White truck with a car body on it........and as far as Wikipedia goes for a source, that you quoted earlier.........they didn’t have a mention or source for the 4 valve engine in the listing........until I added it in.So, it was incorrect for twenty years........till I fixed it.
-
2
-
-
More photos from Yellowstone.......with White cars and busses, and one post dire Lincoln ..........enjoy
-
3
-
1
-
-
So, while I haven’t previously disclosed it here, I have spent countless hours on the White Motor Car Company, and their products. Yes, they made bicycles..........got one. Hasn’t arrived yet, neither has the sewing machine. I have hundreds of great photos of cars, trucks, and other products they built.......here are just a few. Including a crated 1917 truck shipped to France..........I probably have a thousand photos now.......
-
1
-
-
-
The carriage house converted to bus garage, before the fire in 1919. And a photo of the “new” 1925 garage that still stands and is in use today we are going to bring the 1917 out for the 100 anniversary of the building in a few years......
-
1
-
Mounting tires
in Technical
Posted
Those are Dunlop drop center rims.........easy as pie. Twenty minutes per tire from removal to reinstall on the car......including a new tire and tube. It’s the first 5000 of them that slow you down.