NTX5467

One thing mentioned in another board was that re-using or continuing to use "old" names is not good as it would lead to comparisons of the "old" and "new" vehicles with that name. A valid concern, but I seem to recall that when the Chrysler 300 letter series owners were "against" the then-new fwd 300 product, they were won over after Chrysler brought the new car to their national meet and showed them that the "new 300" was at least as good as the cars they cherished, especially after a ride in one that took then up to about 140mph. After THEY learned of the car's performance and how it related to THEIR cars, they were much more likely to embrace it (which they did). Key thing in that product evolution was that the chief engineer for the project went out west and drove home in something like a 1960 Chrysler 300 letter car. He had enough seat time to learn about the car's attributes and how to transfer those things into the new car--even if it was fwd and a 4-door. I highly suspect that few other engineers for car projects using ressurected names have done that. The desitner in charge of the 2005 Mustang was noted to have been "in love" with the original Mustang as a kid, so he had a great sense of what needed to be in the 2005 to make it work. Similar passions about the current Chrysler 300 models and its designer have been mentioned too. Kind of reminds me of when each GM car division had their own Chief Engineer, Design Teams, and such! When the key people in the project have a buy-in to the DNA and "essence" of the particular product, great products usually result (providing the accountant types don't whittle things down too much!). There seems to be a glimmer of hope that GM's current "commonized" design architecture is heading back in that direction, but there still seems to be too much restraint in what I'm seeing hints of in the desired "gotta have" orientation. The last generation Riviera grew out of a show car coupe (and later convertible) clay concept that was called "Lucerne". Remember that car that was displayed in the lobby of the host hotel during the 1988 (?) BCA National Meet in Flint? THAT was the Lucerne coupe. It was not a "driving" car, but a rolling clay mock-up vehicles. Most of the details were accurate, but not working. Helen Hutchings allowed myself and a few other people to step inside the ropes and carefully sit in it. What a treat! If you look at the great car names of the 1940s and later, the higher car lines usually had names reflecting a high class or glamourous locale befitting of the target demographics of the owner. As the level of the carline edged downward, the names were of animals or symbols of strength, typically. And they ALWAYS sounded good in a dramatic sort of way when the television or radio announcer talked about them, whether it was a high class venue or a symbol of power or speed or grace. Remember too, (I suspect) that many of the people in charge of proposing and making some of these more recent decisions came into the industry during the lackluster 1980s, when there usually were NOT any snazzy colors, much less "good" advertising at GM. Certainly different than those who have retired and came into the industry twenty plus years earlier, when things were highly different at GM--when GM was still GM and not the "leaner" entity it is now. There is a MAJOR discussion about the re-use of "Charger" on an variation of the Chrysler 300 platform. As CAR AND DRIVER noted, their email on that subject is running about 30 to 1 "against", but that is a somewhat different issue in many respects. I do like the new LaCrosse ads, which put high style and such back into the mix. Pretty nicely done too. Yet it's nothing like the LaCrosse show car of several years ago. Perhaps, if the production cars are going to be true to the concepts, then the current Regal/Century replacement should have been "Invicta" and the LeSabre replacement would have been LaCrosse? OR to maintain the earlier product name hierarchy, the Lucerne should be "Electra" (maybe with Carmen Electra to be the main spokesperson?)! Not only must the product have some excitement (and quality and integrity) about it, but so must the spokesperson! Remember what happened to Catera sales when their mini-skirted female model (and the Duck) were replaced with the older male? Even if the product issues might have had a hand in the sales decline, having a popular spokesperson for the vehicle is a must. Perhaps some of us in here ought to put together a consultancy to help with marketing issues at some of the car companies? I suspect the quality of the decisions might be a little higher than what has been displayed "historically". And it would be interesting to see just how far inside the GM organization our emails and other comments might get too (past the suspected "censors" at GM.com, from my few experiences). AND that those reading the comments would fully consider the input in their decisions, rather than just hitting the button to send a "Thanks for your comments" response. Perhaps WE ought to be the ones that are in the focus groups for future products? Just some thoughts, NTX5467

This is a really good magazine in many respects, but there are some items that tend to creep into the story copy and picture captions, from time to time, that lead me to believe that those writing about the cars are younger than the cars are and/or are somewhat uninformed about the cars' mechanicals. Perhaps this is a research issue with the writers, editors, or otherwise? But I would have expected them to not happen from a unit of the Hemmings Family of Publications. I suspect that a fully and freshly (correctly!) restored Olds 88 would still have the same family genetics as the "survivor" Olds displayed. Sure, the ride might be a little quieter and such, but the powertrain performance should be similar to what they sampled in the test. Seems like they had an article on an Olds 98 convertible restoration a few months back, or was that another publication? Each GM "brand" was designed "to play" against different markets and that is reflected in how their performance issues are biased. I suspect the Olds would be better for twisty roads but the Buick would be the best one for smoooooooth ride and handling in normal driving situations, plus the drivetrain smooooooothness that was so highly sought after and considered to be "high luxury" in later years. Still, it was a great article with some great photography. Not to mention showcasing some of the vehicles of a younger BCA member. Happy Holidays! NTX5467

As nice as those cars were, they have been "cold" on the market for a couple of years now--even the ones with the Olds 307 V-8. It seems that when they do sell, the really nice convertibles are going for close to 1/2 of the price guide prices for the #2 condition. By the time they sell, they usually have been "for sale" for long enough that their owners take what they can get just to get rid of them. Not the best car to be trying to sell right now. Haven't really figured out what the real problem is. So it's more of a "buyer's market" for those cars than the "seller's market" you'd think it should be for the distictiveness and rarity of the vehicles. Just depends on which side of the fence you're on when the money changes hands. Other than the potential issues with the convertible top hardware, the biggest issue to me would be "power". There was one or two years that Olds put 403s in the similar Toronados, so that would cure lots of issues, but finding a suitable donor car could be a problem. Might be more Toros with Olds 350s, though, which would still be a big improvement over the 307. And of course there were the Cadillac Eldos on that same platform too. A little parts swapping and interchanges and chassis upgrades (maybe KYBs or KONIs and stiffer sway bars?) could make a pretty neat car--just my suspicion. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

The first year for the SC3800, there was no mention of the supercharger oil in the maintenance schedule, but it DID appear in the 2nd year of production. Seems like the maintenance "check" interval was 50,000 miles, but it's been a good while since I looked at that stuff. I concur that changing the oil instead of just checking it is the best way. Some of our techs have mentioned that they can tell when the SC oil has not been serviced as it has a stronger odor to it. I highly suspect that most of the SC3800s on the road have never had the SC oil checked, much less knowing that it had a special oil for it. Many might suspect it is lubed via engine oil as most turbos are (I remember those Turbo 3.8s that, when the seal in the turbo went away for whatever reason, "vacuumed" the crankcase of oil; factor in the typical "drive it and keep gas in it" mentallity and you know where that "deal" is headed). By observation, there seems to be a good bit of information on the care and feeding and repair of the SC on the Pontiac Grand Prix websites and similar. That's usually where the performance mod information on the 3800s is found. When we get a trade-in with a SC3800, usually a Grand Prix GTP, they usually are about 150,000 miles and have a noise in the SC. At GM OEM prices, it usually ends up on the wholesale lot. Most of the GP comments mention changing the front section to fix the noise problem, but I'm not sure what bearings are in the back side of the housing. I DID recently discover that reman units are available in the aftermarket (even from NAPA?), so there are other options than just from the dealer if problems which result in replacement occur. Seems like that one website also listed the differences in each of the SC units for the various years and which ones will bolt to what years of manifolds. Most of the SC W-cars usually had the 3.29 ratio in the transaxle, rather than the normal 3.09 or so. Seems like there was a 2mpg EPA difference in the highway numbers, but I don't know if that was hedging or really accurate as that small change in axle ratio shouldn't equate to 2mpg at cruise. To me, I would be more concerned about the health of the cooling system (evidence of whether or not there are any problems related to a poorly maintained cooling system with DEXCOOL in it!) than I would with SC issues. Many people are not aware of the "other" sources for SC units (in reman) rather than the new ones from GM, so that price from the dealership scares them right into another car without a SC on it. Use your best judgment, change ALL of the belts, fluids, and filters, and . . . Enjoy! NTX5467

What's "wrong" with your existing column? Just curious . . . NTX5467

From my observations, "original,unrestored" usually means "no new paint" or a certain percentage of the total paint is allowed to be "refinished" due to wreck damage repairs and such. Interior would need to look stock, but I doubt that they'll get the upholstery swatches or factory sales lit out to verify that--you can usually tell what's right and what's not if you know what you're looking at. If the plug wire "correctness" is an issue, some of the reproduction people can do you a set up with the correct GM date codes and markings (the date code would be something like "4-Q-70" for a wire set produced in the 4th Quarter of 1970 ( which usually would be for a 1971 year model vehicle, typically), as the date code should pre-date the vehicle's production or be equal to it. Similar with date coded heater hoses and such too. Those cars were really nicer cars than many people gave them credit for being, so having one in "pristine" condition is a very nice situation! Several years ago, one of our chapter members purchased a similar car from the original owner in Atlanta. White with black vinyl roof and cloth interior (which was somewhat common back then). Everything under the hood was untouched, other than the water pump that was unpainted as it was documented to have been replaced under the factory warranty, including the tower hose clamps being clocked-in just so! Even the plastic on the steering wheel trim was not deteriorated (as it was garage kept all of its life). The standards for the local shows and cruises in the "original" classes are usually not the same as for shows of the level of the BCA National Meets or similar, so with some cleaning and detailing, it'll probalby do fine. It does sound like it could be the makings of at least a 400 Point Silver Award, if you might desire to do that--maybe even a 400 Point Gold Award with the proper care in detailing and retouching! DON'T forget about an ACDelco oil filter and battery too! Enjoy! NTX5467

Great comments, Thriller!!!! If we look at this organization as an "enthusiast" organization--at the national AND local chapter levels, then it will probably stand a better chance of surviving as we know it today. I've also known of some car clubs that "desire" you have a "club car" (whatever THAT really means?) to be a member and then they have to approve your choice of vehicle before accepting your dues. I know they probably have some reason for that orientation, but I don't know that it really does the particular club any good as such. Some loyal vehicle owners will not join a car club for various reasons (which make sense to them) regardless of the "benefits of membership". Others are so far out of the loop that they will never go looking farther than their local parts store or repair shop for anything--and then complain about "no parts" or buy another car they can find parts for. As for kids at car shows, one reason the owners of those cars behind ropes get excited about unrestrained or "unbehaved" younger kids is that there have been instances where damage was done to a very expensive paint job by a kid "having fun" and not respecting the property of others in the process. Somewhere, nobody told them "Look but do NOT touch as it isn't yours". Car shows that have vehicles on display are NOT the private playground of anybody without the owner's permissions--period. Some, but not all, of the spectators have any idea of just how much money it took to get the paint and chrome to the level it is at the show. Also, even if it's a weekend cruise event, those of us that have been to those events have kept watch out of the corner of our eyes for unrestrained kids that are not fully cognizant of where they are. To their credit, many parents are also keeping an eye on them too as THEY know who'll be responsible for any damages inflicted by their kids. But I also suspect many of the parents at the cruise events are there to share their love for cars with their kids as they both "grow up"--which is great. But the whole deal with kids is to teach them to respect the property of others--period. Yep, some car owners might get a little too excited about those things, but from my perspective, it's highly normal just as somebody might not like somebody driving over their lawn when they failed to make a corner in the neighborhood. Many could say, "It's ONLY a car!". This is true, but if somebody's taken much care and pains to get NOS fabric (which is still the same age as the vehicle and still somewhat more fragile than when the car and fabric were new) and other things for a top notch restoration, then I also believe it's in their rights get excited with unrestrained and unrespectful kids running around unsupervised. Now, if that same "concerned owner" puts the seed of thought into the head of the young kid that he might have a ride in the car when the show is over, with the parent's permission and attendance of course, then there's the carrot at the end of the stick for the kid that will further most probably guarantee lasting memories. There's a time for shows and trophies and another for giving people rides in vehicles. Some of the best cruises can be the ones where trophies are not present, but people come out to hang out with other car people and enjoy the cars and related atmosphere on weekends. Sure, some of the same cars that were seen at the indoor show might be there, so in this more informal location, rides in those cars would be more of an option if the owner is approached in the correct manner AND the owner is agreeable. When I was going to some of those weekend events, I made some friends and I did get to ride in some of their cars. This gave me a much broader appreciation for vehicles which I had no real hands-on experiences with, which was even better. Each of us makes value judgments about letting others into our vehicles--new, old, or otherwise--whether to ride with us, to just sit and enjoy, or to borrow it sometime. Others have "been down that road" where the vehicle was damaged and the "other person" (non-spouse/significant other) did not desire to repair the damage (even if it was getting "ready to happen" anyway) or accept some of the responsibility for it. So let's just say that some have reflex actions to the possible actions of others that are perceived to be well-founded from past experiences of ours or of others. It's those reflex actions that some might perceive as something other than just protecting our possessions. I also suspect that those complaining about "attitudes" of car people would probably be doing the same thing if THEY were in the same position as the car owner they're complaining about. Or they are complaining as they "got caught" not doing something they should have been doing, like keeping their kids under better control. Remember when you were growing up and had guests in your home? When you were supposed to let your guests play with your toys? And then your generosity resulted in your guest breaking one of your favorite toys? You complained to your parents and YOU were scolded in front of everybody for getting mad about the whole deal? Life experience training can start early! Somebody (your parents, probably) might spend THEIR money to get you a new favorite toy, but it's "not the same" and the memory of why you needed that replacement toy linger for decades. Paying for other people's mistakes or indiscretions is not something ANY of us desire to do--period. Lots of side issues . . . lots of situational ethics . . . lots of variables . . . and the desire that others respect OUR property as much as they might desire that we respect theirs--no more, no less. Young children are always looking for new experiences and to also show off of their knowledge sometimes. We used to have a water cooler in our Parts Dept GM Pro Shop area. It was a fancy water cooler with hot and cold running water. One day a lady came in with her two elementary age children. One saw the water cooler and immediately had to have a drink out of it, showing off for the sibling in the process. So he proudly pulled a paper cup out of the sleeve, punched the button, and the water flowed. After the cup got about 1/2 full, the kid's eyes got really big, screamed, and dropped the cup. The mother turned around to see what her "well behaved" kids were up to (instead of waiting patiently at her side). About that time she noticed that the kid had punched the red button on the water cooler, the HOT button that dispensed steaming HOT water (did really well for hot tea and powdered soup!) instead of the blue button for cold water. A "traumatic" experience for the kid? Maybe, but WHO should have taught him what "red" and "blue" buttons on water faucets meant? By that point in time, I'd learned to ignore anything that kids did in the Pro Shop, or at least not to flinch when they did certain things. Sure, touchy feely is in their game plan, but that $100.00 die cast Dale Earnhart collectible car is not the same as the plastic car they might have at home either, yet they had to pick it up and show their parents what it was. The ones that knew what it was really got excited when they saw their kids with their hands on it, as the kid didn't know the difference--but the parent did and saw dollar signs. So, being the good merchandiser that I was, I made sure that those sort of things were out of reach of the younger kids. But still in plain sight so they could point to the "shiney car" and then get their parents to show it to them. You could tell the ones that were being taught to respect the property of others as they let their parents show it to them instead of grabbing for it. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

Matt, maybe some things have changed as some of our managers went to observe, but separated from the invited focus group, a focus group of Lexus owners (there might have been some Mercedes owners in the group too) that was put on by Cadillac in 2003. That's where one proud Lexus owner proclaimed that HIS Lexus was made in Germany! As I understand it, the participants were asked what they liked about their cars and the general ownership experience--right down to getting a service "loaner" car that was pretty much like the one, model-wise, that they had brought in for service. A friend used to shuttle Lexus cars for a dealership's customers in Dallas. They had Toyota Camry's for their rental fleet at that time. Some of the owners of the smaller Lexus cars complained about being brought a mere Toyota instead of their "little Lexus". It sounds like they are headed more in the direction they need to be, rather than your experiences in the Monte Carlo group. Still, the "right questions" must be asked and not the questions to generate the desired "we're headed in the right direction" answers--unless that's really the case. I know the random sampling numbers indicate that a small population can be used to project a large population's orientation, but I sometimes question that as you never know just how representative the particular random sample might be. Nor what personal agendas the participants might have--good, bad, or indifferent. Sometimes, the information generated is very useless too! Yet there usually needs to be a "positive spin" put on those results to justify the expense of the program. For the record, the current MonteCarlo still seems to be true to the original orientation (although many in the '80s were not), but that rear body "treatment" just seems WRONG to me. When I saw a #3 race car on display at the Dallas New Car Show (as the "hint" of what the next year's car would look like), I just went "YUK! SURELY they are NOT going to build it THAT way!" when I walked around the back and saw the taillights. Aerodynamics and cosmetics do not have to be strange bedfellows! Enjoy! NTX5467

I wonder what the degrees are in? I hope this is not another "financial takeover" that looks more at what the vehicle costs than spending a little more to make it a better vehicle that will sell more units with lower warranty costs, hence greater "return on investment" and customer satisfaction. The same $$$$$ can build something unremarkable or build something really neat that everybody perceives they want. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

Some people would claim that a "name is a name", which is true. But if you look at what that name meant in the "glory days" of that particular model name for the "magic" in that name in more current times, things can be very positive. Key thing is that the "essence" of what made those earlier models great is successfully distilled and liberally sprinkled on the newer model of that name. Also, FORGET the nomenclature of "retro" or "old school" too! Remember . . . "ESSENCE". One reason the current Chrysler 300 resonates in the target market is the essence of what made the original 300s desireable vehicles (other than any version of the Hemi V-8, which has NOT hurt either!). And there's still some family 'semblance in the grille and such too. And it's priced "right"! One thing that Ford seems to do so very well is keeping the essence of former vehicles in the newer ones. When I first saw the current Thunderbird on the new car show circuit (before production began), I noticed the Thunderbird emblems and noted the correct turquoise coloring in those emblems, plus a good rendition of those earlier Thunderbird emblems. The 2005 Mustang is another vehicle that for somebody that grew up with those cars, they "did it right" in so many respects. And the Ford Forty-Nine was a really neat show car too. One reason the T-bird did not sell quite as well as it should have is the pricing, I suspect (plus dealers that tried to "add-on" too much for "desireability"). It never was designed or meant to sell huge numbers of vehicles, or to last past the current model cycle (which was all stated up front), but was to be a modern version of a previous iconic car for Ford in the '50s and '60s. The PT Cruiser is an econobox that doesn't look like one. Different and distinctive and priced correctly too (even though you can run the price up pretty good without restraint). So, if the Invicta can have some of the earlier style and flare of the original (chrome, paint schemes, body contours) plus the snazzy interiors and other things that set it apart from the pack back then (in a GOOD way), then having a modern vehicle with the "essence" of the earlier vehicle could be beneficial and put some pizzazzzzzzz back into Buick. I somewhat doubt we'll ever see anything the likes of the LaCrosse show car or the Blackhawk in production, but something jazzier than "Lucerne" (and the vehicle it's attached to) pretty much needs to happen. Not so say that the Lucerne is not or will not be a great car, but it probably would have been better if they kept calling it "LeSabre". To me, if a car's going to really generate buzz in the general public, the name needs to be something that generates excitement when it's pronouced. Something that invited positive inflection as it's said . . . Chrysler Three HunDREDD, ThuunnddderBIIIRRDDDD, INvicTTAAAA, WILDCAT! CAADDDiillllaaaaccc SixTEEN If you try that with "Lucerne", it kind of sounds like a question, with all due respect, and will never be quite as dramatic as my examples. "ES430" will never have the glamour of "Roadmaster Riviera" or "Buick Electra" or "Coupe DeVille", but some people think that's the way to go (which sometimes results in things like "Eldorado Touring Coupe" being "ETC" or "Seville Touring Sedan" being "STS"--some good, some not-so-good, and others amusing. Sometimes, marketing is very similar to economic theory . . . just depends on who's orientation is "popular" that day. I'm hoping for the best . . . and hope they can pull it off. NTX5467

Well, with all due respect, there IS the Buick Street Rod Association. Might not be nearly as big as other street rod or street machine organizations (which are "open" clubs), but it's still around. Regardless of what tack the BCA administration takes, for the BCA (or ANY similar group) to survive, there has to be an effective marketing plan in place. Marketing a car club? Yep! Just as viable as selling gasoline or tires. People HAVE to know you exist and then you have to be able to motivate them to join the group. If they join and then decline to renew their membership the next year, then somebody needs to find out WHY they did not rejoin. If you determine it was "changing interests" or family issues, that's not too bad, but if you discover that them and your group was not a "good fit" (for whatever reason), then you can use that knowledge to watch for trends of others that similarly decline to rejoin. This "feedback loop trend analysis" can be important for younger organizations, but can help more established organizations to "bend" a little or at least reconsider their particular orientation. There are some Buick enthusiasts (substitute whatever other brand of vehicle also, as this is not "Buick specific") that will feel more comfortable in non-BCA type organizations than in the BCA. This is a given. But if there might be some underlying reason they are not BCA members (even to not knowing the BCA exists!), then finding out what that reason is could be of benefit in the long run. In the "other" club I have been a member of since the middle 1980s, which is a local, free-standing club for Mopar vehicles, when that club was started, there were the national car clubs that "recognized" ALL vehicles built by a particular manufactuer plus hot rod clubs, custom car clubs, muscle car clubs, and antique car clubs. It was a cinch that the antique car clubs did not have too many people younger than 50 years old in them. The national car clubs were supposed to be the "umbrella" club for ALL of the manufacturer's vehicles and had a more middle-aged membership. But if you go to an indoor car show or any cruise night, the non-original cars are the ones they do gravitate toward. In the case of our Mopar club, we accepted ANYBODY that was a Mopar enthusiast. One of our associated clubs nearby had taken a "muscle car" approach and we heard about that when our people were asked if we were a muscle car club. The answer was that many of our members had cars like that, but we also had members that had original cars and such too. We encouraged the owernship of ANY Mopar of ANY year and that orientation gave us some of the best and most diverse annual shows of ANY club around. Having newer vehicles in the show field also made our dealeship sponsors feel good about the whole deal too! Not to mention giving spectators a much better show than just original or just antique or single whatever, but everything that had a Mopar engine in it. Everybody had something of interest to look at and that just made everything better--period. There were some classes that were larger than others, but the key was the total diversity that led potential members to get excited about the whole gammut of the Mopar hobby instead of just seeing restored '40s cars (for example). When you cultivate and celebrate diversity as we did, it just flat worked and everybody had fun. Sure, there were some members that had other interests than some of our other members, but it was the huge knowledge base in the club in so many areas of the car hobby that was so outstanding. There were some personality conflicts, every so often, but we lived through those times. With consistently over 100+ members, there were plenty of people to find somebody to go to a race or show or cruise with. Some members came, went off for a while (for various reasons), and then returned later--at which time we welcomed them back. As a club officer, I started a unique judging and classification format for our shows, plus the "If it's a Mopar or has a Mopar engine, we'll find a place for it on the show field" orientation. The WORST thing you can do is tell somebody (that's new to the hobby in your brand of car) is that you don't recognize THEIR car in your club for whatever reason (too new, wrong type, not original) . . . unless . . . the particular specialization is part of the club's name. It would be reasonable to expect to see "antiques" in the AACA or a "professional car" club to have limosines or ambulances or hearses in their events, but unless the club's name specifies that specialization, the general public perceives (and rightfully so) that you recognize ALL of a particular brand of car and that they can bring THEIR car of that brand to any of the club's shows and be able to show it--period. I highly suspect that allowing "not-as-produced" Buicks (of whatever form) into the BCA's natinonal events will lead to the ruin of the club (although some might claim that!). But as in any business venture, broadening the "customer base" is always a good thing that will lead to greater long-term viability for the enterprise. I also highly suspect that these national show events will not be suddenly overrun with "not-as-produced" Buicks either, but just as in Flint, seeing those older Buicks with air bagged suspensions and some custom touches to them looked really neat and made for a more rounded-out exposition of ALL Buicks. The "as produced" or "not-as-produced" discussions can go on until everybody's running on "fumes", but the real issue is one of marketing the BCA (as an umbrella Buick organization) to those who might not currently be members--period. To put restrictions on who we motivate to join (and what vehicles are "recognized") will do more harm in the long run than having "not-as-produced" vehicles on the national meet show fields. Sure, it will make for a larger and more diverse "circus" each year, but larger and more diverse events (if you look at the national meets as a marketing tool for the whole Buick hobby) should result in more members too. If the "as produced" enthusiasts are afraid of the "not-as-produced" enthusiasts "stealing their thunder", then maybe the former group needs to get their cars in gear and headed toward ALL national meets to show that they are still around too? Don't just go to the national meets in your immediate area, but the ones across the country from where you live. Put those Buicks on the road for all to see (and if they are not completely road worthy, make then so, or spend the money you didn't spend on fixing them to be that way into a suitable tow vehicle and trailer). Bring the spouses, significant others, or friends. Bring the rest of the family. Bring the grandkids too. Key thing is that everybody have fun! Existing BCA members can be the best (and least expensive) marketing tools for getting new members (of any age) into the oranization. Just don't tell anybody that their Buick "doesn't count" as it might not be what you might like or perceive the BCA is not oriented toward. NOBODY likes for "the door to be slammed in their face" for any reason, so unless the BCA membership votes to change the name of the BCA to "The Antique Buick Club of America" or "The As-Produced Buick Club of America", why slam any doors? Everybody needs to feel proud of owing a Buick (or any other marque of vehicle), regardless of the vehicle's age, and they also should be welcomed into the BCA (or similar group) with open arms and show fields for those vehicles. From my experiences and observations, to do anything else (in an umbrella-type club situation) puts limits on future growth of the organization. The BCA might not meet the needs of all Buick enthusiasts per se, for various reasons, but that does not mean that it could meet the needs of more of these Buick enthusiasts with just a little more effort. Nothing's going to happen overnight, but starting to head in particular directions (which might be different than current destinations) can be orchestrated now. The "journey" has begun, we just need to make sure it's a successful trip! Enjoy! Willis Bell 20811 Director, North Texas Chapter BCA

Since the current front wheel drive Impala has been out, the LS model has had the Buick 3800 and standard equipment. The base Impala has the Chevy 3.4L V-6. The 3800 SC has been in the "Supercharged" Monte Carlo SS for two model years now, being shared with the Impala SS and the Indy Pace Car version that Roberta just rotated out of. And what about the GTP Grand Prixs and SSEi Bonnevilles? Or the Olds 88 LSS? There's more of the 3800 SCs around than you might suspect! And in some pretty rare cars too--like at the end of the model year before they became regular production in the full model year in Park Avenues Ultras, Bonnevilles, and Olds 88s. Just about 1000 of each one was built in that short model run. Where are they now? And then there was the 3800 Turbo motor in the Trans AMs one year, but they had 3300 V-6 heads on them to clear the strut towers under the hood. NTX5467

I'm not sure if they do the same sort of events as you mentioned, but I have seen some documentation in GM dealer magazines where potential buyers were invited to a ride and drive event to check out (in this case) the new Riviera (last generation) before it was shown to the general public. In other cases, "consumer" ride and drive events have been going on for many years, where potential buyers are invited to attend to see the new models and compare them in driving situations with targeted competitors. When we went to one for the '98 Regals, it was interesting that "nobody" wanted to drive anything other than the Buicks, even with a Honda or two available. There's usually some interesting sales presentation of the features of the vehicle and some nice tokens of appreciation too. As part of a new model's launch activities, dealer personnel can attend dealer training events where you learn about the new model and also drive the targeted competition vehicles. For those, there IS a test afterward! I've been so several of the ride and drive events and also dealer training events too. Pretty neat! Except for the one on the new Malibu and Colorado when it was 28 degrees with 15 mph wind and barely 45 degrees in the presentation and food tents! The SRX and Grand Prix events were much better and in warmer times of the year. The BMW X5 event was pretty neat too! The recent Ford InnovationDrive event was fun. The yearly Susan G. Komen "Drive for the Cure" driving events that many BMW dealers sponsor are neat to do too. Plus donations for each mile you drive are made by BMW. Driving the 7-Series V-12 was awesome! But at some time, reality sets in and you realize just what you can and CANNOT afford! Plus that you don't have a place to park it, much less buy insurance for it. They usually have a "recommended" 10 mile course for each participant to drive on surface streets/freeways. I would highly recommend that ANYBODY that gets a chance to attend one of these events to do so! Many times, you can find out about them on the manufacturer websites, under "Events". Many possibilities if you look for them . . . In Lutz's book, "GUTS", he has some "comments" about focus groups and how to best interpret the survey results. Sometimes what the surveys might reveal on the surface is not really accurate in the real world market situations when the consumer decides to possibly part with their money. Enjoy! NTX5467

Dirt roads in the country, going by people's houses that you knew or did not know then. The ruts, the washboards, the wood bridges with "runners" that you had to drive on, the side roads that went down off the main road and dead ended in somebody's front yard or cow lot. Yep, the paved roads were more "uptown" back then, but the dirt roads were the backbone of rural life. Most of the ones around here had pretty deep bar ditches. That was part of what made them "all weather" back then. If you got stuck on the side roads, with less deep ditches, there might be a friendly farmer in his "puddle jumper" old 6 cylinder pickup or '52 Chevy car (that didn't have enough power to spin the wheels, much less jump puddles in the field!) that always could pull you that few feet to the solid road again. In extreme cases, he had to go get his tractor. Sometimes, this whole situation took place as you got over a little too far to the side of the road when you met someone coming the other way on the 1.5 lane roadway. You soon learned just how far to go to the right without getting stuck and causing yourself problems as you tried to be nice to somebody else. Rolling down the windows was the only way to travel, and also cranking open the vent windows too. I liked to watch the dust swirls too. Seemed to be a 55 gallon barrel-size swirl rolling toward the center of the car from each side in our '56 Plymouth (maybe the smaller tail fins helped this situation?), which met the flat dust trail from under the car. Our '51 GMC pickup didn't put up such a uniform or pretty dust trail. And, of course, the dust and mud and such washed off pretty easily with just a cold water hose. Simpler joys from much simpler times! And of course the Buicks usually rode a little smoother than the cheaper cars too! If you met somebody on the side roads in a "more important" car, you had to go a little farther to the right to get out of their way. Heaven forbid that two Cadillacs would meet on one of those roads as one of them would have to scrape bottom. Enjoy! NTX5467

Pete, Barney, and Keith have made some good comments and are reality-based. My observations about the "younger" people at BCA (and from reading the local AACA newsletter) tend to indicate that if "younger" people attend their meetings and events, they were in the company of parents or grandparents. It's great that we have the "Buick and Its Parts" program, but perhaps the "younger" people that the BCA ought to be courting is the 30-somethings that are finally getting their families established, their finances settled somewhat after their marriage and the kids arrived, and are ready to "do something" again. In earlier times, Buicks were not a car that a young person could buy new, but a car they WANTED to buy when they got older and got enough money to buy a new or slightly used one. If you watch some of the old Buick commercials, there's one where a new school teacher has been saving her pennies and dimes to buy her "NEW BUICK"--doesn't matter that it's a base Special with blackwall tires, it's a BUICK and all that that said about the owner in those earlier time frames. More about status, "arriving", and the successful life that was expected to happen in the future. Modern Buicks not "attractive"? Perhaps not in the same way that we knew them in the '60s and '70s--even back then it was aunts, uncles, grandparents, and other well-off people that bought Buicks and typically not the high school graduate (unless it was a Skylark GS or similar). For everybody that doesn't think modern Buicks are attractive to today's younger people, just check out www.RegalGS.org! Four doors, front wheel drive, and hot rods? Yep! Lots of information on those vehicles is exchanged on that one website, just like we did in earlier times with the more vintage vehicles we liked back then and now, and probably very similar to the V8 Buick site that many have mentioned, or the BPG too. Then also catch a Meguiar's "Car Crazy" program on Speed Channel where they cover a tuner car event and car show. Lots of hot rod front wheel drives racing. Lots of really tricked-out customs too, but ALSO things like Mazda four door sedans on the show field (usually with the young couple that owns it and their child nearby) in fully detailed and "show condition". This is the group that Barry Meguiar calls "Nxt Generation". Then, just for grins, go surfing through the various WebRings that are GM Platform-specific or brand-specific. I ran across several websites put up by high school kids on their front wheel drive LeSabres a few years ago. In a search for '76 Eldorado Fuel Injection information, I found a website by a high school male that was "in love" with those big Eldorados and rebuilt the entire fuel injection system, while also restoring the car to basically OEM specs (earning a high level award at a national Cadillac club meet too!) as part of his high school auto shop project! Now, these younger age people are not in the Mitsu or Honda realm of things, but want something different. Heard that orientation before? So they end up as a third owner of a Buick (usually well cared for and in good condition) that impressed their friends with the luxury, power, and economy compared to their econobox cars. Oh, and "mods"? A chip in the ECM, K&N air filter, sound system, and maybe some fancy wheels (backdate that a couple of decades and see if it's not similar to prior times!). Key point -- ALL of the data that has been, or IS being disseminated by the media is tracking ONLY the ownwer demographics of NEW BUICKS. By my own observation, but the time that new Buick hits the used car lot the first time, the age demographics of the second owner takes a BIG jump downward into the 30 or 40-something range. Then, when the third owner gets it, the demographics can taken another BIG jump downward, into the realm of some of the very people that are perceived to be the "future of the BCA". Look at how many younger families are driving recent vintage Crown Victorias. For the same price as a new SMALL car, they have a much larger car that can easily carry them and their married friends on outings and such. Not to mention the parents. Same thing with used Centurys, Regal LSs, and LeSabres. Add some different tires and wheels and it makes an affordable car a nicer looking car too. I concur that one of the best things we can do is welcome younger members into our chapter events, even if their cars are newer than 12 years old. I also concur that if we show them the great heritage that their newer car has, it can also increase their pride of ownership and very possibly realize they have "something special" instead of something mundane and common. ONE thing that we as chapter members do NOT need to do is to try to force the stated orientations about "The only good Buick is an OLD Buick" on them. I am of the orientation that if we get them interested in driving a Buick as their basic transportation (and make them proud to be driving a Buick), as they grow older and more financially well-off, they will continue to buy Buicks and could very well desire to purchase a more vintage Buick to restore (probably one that is in the "appreciation" stage of its value cycle on the open market). In prior decades, the offspring usually ended up having the same brand of car as their parents drove (usually handed down when a new vehicle of the same brand was purchased). Getting that same cycle started in more modern times can be beneficial to the Buick hobby AND Buick/GM too. Today's modern cars will be tomorrows collector cars, even as far out as that might seem. As nice as a '72 LeSabre two door hardtop or '74 Buick Apollo or '61 Skylark might have been when they were new, did we consider any of them a "future collectible" back then? What about a Plain Jane '66 Chevy C-10 6 cylinder pickup too? Probably not as there were too many of them around. But 30+ years later, it's a different story. As the Buick Club of America, I concur that this organization should be an "umbrella" organization for all Buick enthusiasts--period. Welcoming and embracing ALL Buicks and owners into the "family". Sure, just as in regular families, there might be some models or types of Buicks that you might not care for, but that does NOT diminish the fact that they are ALL part of the Buick Family. Look at and enjoy the ones that you like, but do NOT degrade the ones you don't like. Everybody has particular years and models and types of cars and Buicks that trips their triggers, and others they might not care for, this is normal. Trying to tell someone that they are making a mistake for not liking what you might like can be highly counterproductive to the entire automotive hobby, not to mention raised "oil pressure" and generating enough discontent to cause problems and ill feelings toward the particular hobby group. If that happened to you, you would not like it either, so it is adviseable to not do it. If you find something you don't like, just walk on past and go on to other cars you like better--period. The other side issue is one that's not going to "get fixed" anytime soon. With the typical BCA member becoming "more gray", so do more participants at national meets. Although the national meets are the yearly capstone event of many clubs, non-members or prospective members look at the "typical participant" and make a judgment about the rest of the entire club from that small sampling of members. If the younger people don't see more people of their own age and such at the meets, do they really like to hang out with "old folks" all of the time? At the 2004 BCA National Meet in Plano, I observed a good number of 20-somethings checking out the cars on the show-field-to-be about sundown one day. They might have admired the '50s and earlier cars, but the ones they were most interested in were . . . . the '70s GS cars. In other words, cars of an age that they might have read about in a more recent car magazine or (specifically) had contact with as they were growing up (does THAT sound familiar??). I do NOT feel that the BCA needs to prostitute itself just to get younger members into the club by forgetting about the older and stock Buicks that have been the core group of the club for many years. Yet the BCA can expand the scope of "recognized Buicks" for the national meets and other events (with respect to type, year and model, and condition) in order to also expand the membership base. Having the full spectrum of Buicks on display at national meets makes for a better show for everybody, including the spectators (and potential future members!). Although some might consider it a myth, Buick did NOT stop building cars in 197_, or even 196_ (you fill in the blanks). I know, the definition of "car" might be debateable, but the nameplate is still being attached to a variety of vehicles, even today. There are more aspects to a national meet than just the vehicles on the show field, but that also tends to define the national meet to many people. Only those worthy of a 400 Point trophy should receive one, but in other "participation" classes, many would receive some sort of recognition award. Existing judging standards should be maintained lest they become diluted to please a few people that might not desire to ante up to keep their vehicle in suitable condition to earn a Gold Award in the current 400 Point System. As The Buick Club of America, WE should have the highest standards of authenticity and correctness of restoration of any national organization (especially for the GOLD level award!) that accepts Buicks into their national or other judged meets--period. Many lament that fewer and fewer older Buicks are shown at national meets each year (which can also be related somewhat to the location of the national meet). A somewhat unfortunate situation as the age demographics of those vehicles' owners progresses. Possibly similar with many of the more vintage Senior and Senior Preservation level cars too? We can't force those people to take the time and expense of bringing those cars to the yearly meets, other than possibly for additional preservation or other awards. Maybe that's where the grandkids might come in? Many members of the BCA have an untapped wealth of knowledge and information to share with others of the Buick persuasion, including younger people who might be interested in Buicks. Knowledge from "experience" and "prior activities" regarding Buicks of many different eras and orientations. Knowledge that can be used to mentor younger people (and those just entering the Buick hobby) as they establish their credible knowledge base which they will carry into their later lives as auto and Buick enthusiasts. Some of the best things that can happen is when two enthusiasts, of somewhat diverse interests, start talking to each other about what makes their particular Buick (or any other marque of vehicle, for that matter) great and valuable to them. Not to "position" or "impress", but to share information such that both learn something--expanding horizons for each person. Every car has at least ONE story the owner can share with others--where it came from, repair issues, or ownership enjoyment. Putting together some of the pieces to the Buick Puzzle Matrix that might help each other understand more of what made Buicks the great vehicles they were and are today. It doesn't matter if the individuals are "older" and "younger", or have interests in different eras of Buicks, or any combination thereof. Key thing is that everybody appreciates what everybody else has and feels good about the Buick they have the keys to. I wonder what might happen if we began looking at what we've termed "National Meet" in the past as more of a "Buick Reunion"? With such events that might be hosted by the Buicktown Chapter called "Buick Homecomming"? Might that orientation be more inline with what we might desire to be accomplishing rather than a yearly event just to justify handing out trophies or selling some rare parts (both functions which would still be a part of such an event)? Might be something to consider . . . Thanks for your time and consideration, Willis Bell 20811 Director, North Texas Chapter BCA

Reprinted vintage modification information, generally for Chevy and GMC inline sixes, but there's some information about Buick Straight 8s too. "California Bill's CHEVROLET, GMC, & BUICK SPEED MANUAL" 1954 Edition by Fred W. "Bill" Fisher Published by: Fisher Books 4239 W. Ina Road, Suite 101 Tuscon, AZ 85741 520-744-6110 Reprinted circa 1995 ISBN 1-55561-106-0 I found this book at Barnes&Noble a few years ago. The contact information above is printed in the front of it. Lots of neat, period correct, engine modification information (including mixing alcohol and methanol with normal gasoline)! Now, we know where you were today, Bill . . . Glad you had a prosperous day! Enjoy! NTX5467

Very good points! As far as the "prime real estate" issue goes, in many metro areas, the old dealerships were usually in the central business district (back when ALL of the important and prestigious places were "downtown") or nearby. In the bigger cities, many of these have been leveled for office buildings and such. Yet in the smaller towns and some metro areas, many are still there as the Interstates moved the commercial zones outward from downtown, resulting in new dealerships in the "more traveled" Interstate corridor. So a good number of those dealerships built in the '50s and '60s are now sitting vacant or have been recycled for other uses, just as old filling stations have been. What was once prime real estate is less of that now that the traffic patterns have changed, but they still are not going to be "cheap" unless they are sold at a tax auction or similar. Other things to consider would be locations with the lowest commercial utility costs, insurance rates, accessibility to excellent burglar alarm networks and law enforcement facilities, and the possibility of needing a "dealer's license" (unless other arrangements can be made). Using the facility as something of a center for local chapter/regional activites (meetings, shows, etc.) would be good. Excess shop or storage space could be rented to chapter members too. Of course, having reliable people involved would be a definite plus! Enjoy! NTX5467

Looks GOOD! Thanks for y'alls work on that issue! NTX5467

Typically, the year of engine (verified with stamp and cast production and date codes, typically) and the year of the chassis are what determines which emissions set-up must be in place. The newest year of either one is the determining year. i.e., a '72 engine in a '86 car would need '86 emissions hardware to pass the visual inspection part of the procedure, typically, but if what comes out the tailpipe is correct for the '86 vehicle, then you might have a reason to argue the point. Similarly, an '86 engine in a '72 car would need to meet '86 emissions (especially for the visual inspection). Rather than use a Buick 350, it might be easier (in all respects) to find an Olds 350 to take the place of the anemic(!!!!) Olds 307. At least that way, the cosmetics would be the same, plus other things being able to be easily adapted and transferred from the Olds 307. Cosmetics (and evidence of parts removal) would be key issues in any visual emissions system inspection, so using the Olds 350 (or 455) might be better alternatives in this case. Although these would be basic issues with respect to emissions inspections, depending on where you live and what type of inspections the vehicle would be subject to are also important considerations. Not to mention that if you might travel into a metro non-attainment area, a non-compliance vehicle could be caught via remote sensing operations. But if somebody raises the hood, it needs to look like it has had no "tampering" done to the engine, lest they start asking more questions and looking for other things (at which time the keg of worms can open up). You might be able to access your state's DOT via the Internet to determine just what type of emissions/safety inspections your vehicle would be subject to, depending upon your residence location. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

Due to the computer operations and such that make the traction control work, I would not suspect it would be unique to the normal fwd vehicle. The traction control will use the wheel speed sensors from the ABS to monitor wheel speed variations, as it normally would do without regard to how many possible driving wheels there might be. So, I would suspect it would be with fwd and awd versions, but I haven't looked to see. When I looked at one at the Dallas New Car Show, I was impressed with the graphite leather interior. I didn't look at the type of materials per se, but it all looked really upscale to me. Definitely enough to set it apart from the Chevrolets and Pontiacs (and Fords!). I haven't looked at a Chrysler T&C or some of the other possible competitors, but I suspect it's in the same ballpark in the luxury end of things. Yet it would not necessarily upstage the Rendezvous. I suspect the Terraza (I didn't think of Ms. Kerry and her unkempt hair, but a particular upscale type of tile flooring) will be a higher volume vehicle than the Rendezvous would. I do believe that with the right advertising, the Terraza could be a really good seller and get more people interested in Buicks. Kind of like the new "entry level" Buick of the 21st Century? Like the Buick Special used to be in prior times? I know that this is probably more of a "tolerance" issue with you, Roberta, all things considered. But if you can get some of the more performance oriented things added in, like Dodge did in the '80s with their minivans that could be had with Eagle GT tires on alloy wheels, tighter suspension calibrations, and other things that would make driving the "minivan" less painful for somebody that really wanted a performance sedan, then it might workout pretty well. Plus, as not quite a typical minivan buyer, Roberta might see things that the normal minivan buyer would not see. Maybe you can get SPO to tool up with a "hidden rail" in the roof that has an electric hoist for the rear cargo area? Some beefier load-leveling shocks in the back would be needed too. Who would say that you have to have a GMC Envoy (Avalanche Jr.) to make runs to the salvage yard? And with the fuel economy that the new 3.5L OHV V-6 can get (at least factoring it down from what I've observed in the new Chevy Malibu), you can search out those "outer fringes" salvage yards in comfort and style. But all "dreams" aside, the platform is a pretty good vehicle as is. Adding the upgraded 3.5L OHV V-6, evolutionary platform upgrades, and Buick luxury only make it a better vehicle. A vehicle that many would probably feel better about having than a Rendezvous, and a logical step up from a Chevy Venture van. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

A few thoughts . . . possibly a couple of these "facilities" instead of just one, in different geographical areas. It might be easier to find a couple of smaller venues than one large one, yet they'd all be under the same umbrella. This multiple location approach would increase initial investment requirements, but might also provide more opportunities for more BCA members to be involved, whick might help grow things a little faster. Climate, per se, might not be such a big issue, as if the vehicles were housed in a building instead "in the open" (which can generate a whole 'nuther set of zoning and related issues regarding open air "storage" of vehicles! not just in the municipality level, but also at the county and state levels), then the climate's interface would be in heating bills in the winter. To me, one of the reality issues of the automobile hobby is that accumulated vehicles and related items will, someday, have to be disposed of and find new homes. Whether this happens in earlier life or later life, it still will happen sooner or later. For a more senior enthusiast, it would be nice to have a place that the cherished (and very possibly RARE) items could be taken where people that knew what they were looking at could help with the "new home" operation (and care that they did find a good home instead of just finding somebody with money). Many possibilities that could be built upon, as things might progress, which would help the operation grow AND also help serve this section of the automotive hobby. Maybe I'm just looking a little too far into the future, like where I might be in another 20 or 30 years from now with respect to my automotive hobby activities. I know that I'll end up there and that others either are already there or are young enough to not be worrying about it just yet. Still, the key to this whole deal is the funding of the enterprise. But I suspect that if enough people buy into the possibility of this whole idea being something financially viable, it could be a better way to serve the Buick and automotive hobby than building a museum building somewhere and hoping enough people will come through the doors to keep it open. Enjoy! NTX5467

The concrete is supposed to "seal" the surface against "automotive bodily fluids" getting on the the ground, and then going to all of the places that environmentalists claim they go to damage what they claim they do. Many of these EPA-related issues have resulted in many operations ceasing to be "public" or even to exist anyway. The concrete does not have to be smooth and finished, just there. But it does make the operation more "all season" with no mud in the rainy seasons too. And you won't lose that special nut/bolt/clip in the weeds either. Weeds that snakes, ants, or mosquitoes might "hide" in. Plusses and minuses . . . It would seem that potential locations could be in smaller towns that the Interstate highways "bypassed", where the new business district followed the Interstate corridor and left the more central business area of the town vacant. A town that used to be a regional commercial center, which would have had at least one larger dealership that was built in the '50s and is now vacant, for example. Enough "under cover" floor space to be a good shelter and to also allow "work" to be done. Some of those old dealerships are just plain NEAT places! The old embedded grease smell or something? Architecture out of real concrete too! Usually configued for larger vehicles (longer, lower, wider). Did somebody mention the word "Hoard"????? Enjoy! NTX5467

THANKS for sharing those comments and events, Brian! One of the many "once in a lifetime" situations of attending something like the Buick Centennial. The Buick Centennial event was one truly awesome event--period! Those that helped make it happen will always have "hero" status as far as I'm concerned. Too many neat cars, parts, and people in one place at one time to mention! (key the orchestra . . .) Thanks for the memories . . . Willis Bell 20811

It seems that one reason the older salvage yards, especially the ones that tended to specialize in certain makes of vehicles (i.e., the HUGE Mopar salvage yard in KS!), are decreasing due to a number of issues. One would be EPA rules for salvage yards (having to have concrete surfaces and such). Another would be "civilization" spreading out to their venues (which used to be out in the middle of "nowhere", in many cases), which would also relate to "eyesore" and "public nuisance" orientations of developers and "new neighbors". And, as in other business enterprises, when the owner passes away and the survivors (second or third generation) don't seem to have the same drive and passion for the business, things tend to close down later on, the inventory is liquidated and crushed, and so on. One thing that never happens, probably for economic reasons, is that salvage yards are always liquidated and crushed out instead of existing inventory being moved to a new location. As Pete mentioned, the basic overhead issues would be significant. Just getting things up and running would be quite an undertaking, but could well be worth it for the contributiion that it would make to the Buick hobby. Still, funding is needed and profits would have to come from parts or vehicle sales--at some point in time. And what about garage liability and property loss insurance? Depending on the orientation of how "archives" and "museum" are defined, it could still be within the mission statement of that organization. In some respects, I'd rather browse an older salvage yard, just to see what's there (remembering how things used to be and what CARS were back then!), even if an admission fee was charged, than look at modern art in a fancy museum for free (at least I understand what I'm looking at with cars!). Cheap entertainment, of sorts, that's also neat to do. None of us are getting any younger and we all know that at some time, the "fleet" will need to be turned. Having a place to broker the sale of these cherished vehicles and valuable (in many cases) parts, or a place they could be donated from an estate situation, could well be a good thing. Much better than arbitrarily sending them to the crusher! The other thing not mentioned would be the transportation of the vehicles/parts to the ultimate location of the facility. A few things that might help the situation along, perhaps, would be that BCA members could volunteer their time and expertise at the facility. Younger Buick enthusiasts could also "intern" in the summer too. Several exciting possibilities for the support team/staffing of the facility! Several synergistic tie-ins that could be really neat to make happen too! But the key thing would be where the facility is located and related costs to get it up and running, which can be substantial. Even if a suitable building could be found in "small town America", that used to house some manufacturing or larger car dealership, getting it "presentable and "useable" and in compliance with all building and fire codes could take quite a chunk of money. Not to mention that no civic entity might really "want" an indoor salvage yard in a part of town they might be trying to promote for redevelopment, where they'd just a soon bulldoze the whole block than see somebody make something of it. It IS a dang nice pipe dream, but making it a reality would take a good deal of work and funding to just get the doors open--and then sustain operation for at least five years into the future. It WOULD make a good business case, but only to somebody that "understood" what was going on, somebody that knew the dynamics of the car hobby with respect to how vehicles are accumulated and then must be disposed of somehow, sometime, somewhwere. A dedicated clearinghouse/broker situation for cars, parts, memorabilia, etc. "For Buicks ONLY" would be a neat addition to this part of the hobby. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

I was at Barnes&Noble the other night and found that magazine stuck off on the end of a gondola, with some other magazines. I bought it as it'd been a while since I'd read (or found!) it. Some great articles on the cars and race series too! I thought about you in that race series, Roberta, intending to recheck the listings, but got a little sidetracked by what is on the upper half of p19 than the fine print (listings) on the bottom of that page. Sorry about that! Several of our "other" car club members got together with the "black car person" when he got back to town from that race (on Sunday evening). Some interesting and neat stories! Roberta was in another magazine article a few years ago, posing beside her Skylark convertible at the starting line. Pretty neat! Keep up the great work, Roberta! NTX5467