NTX5467

I, too, understand deadlines and concur with Roberta's orientation of getting there early with little stress. I also understand "focus" in making them happen, or desiring to make something happen. I know that Roberta, and probably Peter, have been following along and will most probably do what they can to make some of the things mentioned happen, if that's possible in the current electronic architecture of these forums. I'm also sure that when they have something to be tested or evaluated, they'll let us know about it. My only concern with respect to the desired "deadline" is that the tail (the participants in this forum) doesn't wag the dog (the moderator and host), so to speak. They might set their own deadlines or desired time frame to roll out any changes and enhancements, but I respectfully feel that is their domain and possibly not "our" domain (even though we might be anxious for it to happen). That's just my orientation on that issue and I also respect why others might not specifically agree with that. In the "Powered by vBulletin" boards that I've been into, the ones that tend to take the longest to load have the most options for posting areas (many of which might well be empty!) and the most complicated graphics on the basic page. Others that load almost as quick as this forum have graphics that are less complicated and have a "clean" look to them, but still with more places to post. Therefore, keeping the graphics simple so the basic page loads quickly is, I feel, a good feature. On a picture site, it might be good to put some sort of "watermark" on the bottom of the image with the website, owner's name, verified vehicle descripton, and posting date of the picture. Other than letting those that might download the picture know where it came from and how "old" it might be, it might also aid Google and other search engines in finding pictures of Buicks and leading those people to the BCA website. These things would need not be invasive of the basic picture image, though, but possibly listed along the bottom in a dedicated space. Bandwidth issues might be an issue. Hopefully, things would not get so "bad" as they are in the various Yahoo Groups where only so many downloads from each group can be made during a certain time frame! Nor the archived pictures deleted as time progresses. Might need to consider a separate website (PictureTrail comes to mind) where you can browse the pictures on a left hand column and then click on them to enlarge them. PictureTrail also has capabilities for captions/comments for each picture too, which would take care of the items listed above. I mention that site just as an example of what might be done--no sales pitch for the site. There might be others that reliably provide the same things, if there might be a need to not have them hosted here. Thanks for your work on this subject, Roberta and Peter G. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

My gut reaction would be that a heater core, although it might be the same size per se, would be different for a Buick than for other similar GM vehicles due to the way the pipes were placed on the tanks (bends, direction, etc.). Back then, there were few common parts in that area of the vehicle, typically, as each division "did their own things" and built some highly different vehicles. If possible, it might be best to get yours recored than to try to seek out a replacement part. In some cases, the replacement part might not be exactly of the same core dimensions as what you have. I've seen that happen with late '60s Chevy pickups' heater cores--the replacement part, which everyone has, is smaller than some of the factory production heater cores. I'm not sure about year interchangeability. Others might have that information or you might need to consult the salvage yard industry's Hollander Interchange Manual. Make sure they use high quality solder and then keep the coolant changed regularly for maximum life expectancy. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

From what I've seen, electrical problems can be caused by many situations--including "user problems" or "expert techs" that had little knowledge of how to chase things down, or the inclination to learn how. As the Allpar.com FAQs so vividly point out, Chrysler products (and other makes of vehicle too) are not all the same to the "generic" extent that many people suspect them to be. That's why it's important to find somebody to work on the vehicles, of whatever marque or manufacturer, that KNOWs about them AND has experience with certain repairs and operational idiosyncracies with them. As many of us in the hobby have found out, WE have learned by doing these things ourselves, yet knowing when to let others do the ones that we might not have expertise in doing ourselves. In some cases, our knowledge has come from fixing things that other "experts" might have messed up instead of fixing them correctly (to last). When I was frequenting the Usenet newsgroups on Chrysler and GM products, there were many Chrysler Certified Techs in the Chrysler forum that pretty much told some people how they only needed an exhaust seal or motor mount instead of that new transaxle. Or that a transaxle computer reprogram (Chrysler's computerization is much more complicated than GM or Ford vehicles, which can be added problems for the "uninitated") or sensor replacement on said transaxle would have most probably fixed the problem instead of a reman transaxle. By observation, it's much more critical to find a tech or repair facility that is fully versed in Chrysler issues than it might be for the more common Ford or GM vehicle. The worst thing that happened electrically to our '66 Chrysler was when I got the alternator rebuilt and then it stopped charging. The dealer checked it out and found a bulkhead terminal that had a problem. An easy fix and one that stayed fixed. The issues with the Rim Blow steering wheel were related more to that particular "upscale" option than anything else. Possibly a reason why that option had a short life as an option? A friend of mine bought a late model Chevy pickup from an insurance company as a "total". The prior owner got it hot (in mud) and melted the wiring harness for the "rigged" trailer wiring harness, which took out the neutral safety switch as it "cooked". Also melted the shift cable for the transmission. The local Chevy dealer estimated the repairs at over $5000.00 so the insurance company totalled it out. Shift lever would not move = dead transmission. He bought it "sight unseen" and came out really lucky as it only took about $200.00 to fix it, plus the wrecker bill and money to get all of the mud off of it. So, when you see those "gauges don't work" or similar things in those eBay ads, it might be more indicative of the expertise of the owner is getting things fixed (whether from normal deterioration, flaky design, OR just an inoperative voltage limiter for the gauge circuit, which Chryslers usually had and GMs didn't). Might also be a signal of outside influences that caused the gauges not to work too! Lots of different reasons that should not always result in blanket condemnation of any vehicle per se. The funny part, to me, is that all of those things for the Chrysler musclecars (just as for similar GM and Ford vehicles, typically) are available in the restoration industry from established sources. Maybe the owners didn't know that? Their loss is your gain? To me, the "flakiest" wiring setup was on the Fords of the late '60s where you could, with the ignition turned "Off", put certain switches in the "On" position in a particular sequence, then step on the brake (to turn on the brake lights) and it would cause enough voltage backfeed to let the radio work. Absolutely made "no sense" to me, but I knew people that had done it and demonstrated how to do it. As I said earlier, many vehicles have their own somewhat common reliability or durability issues. I saw owners of the GM 6.2L and 6.5L diesels cuss them up and down for various things, plus say they were going to buy a Ford next time. Then, when I finally got around somebody that owned the Ford/IH diesels, they had the same issues with them that the GM owners did--almost to a "T". Just depends on whom you might be hanging around when the "dialogue" about how bad a particular vehicle might be. Many times, that "green grass" on the other side of the fence might be a mirage or similar for what looks like dead grass. Back in the '77 time frame, I knew a guy that bought a new Chevy Monza Mirage. After a while, he grew tired of the small motor and tried to get the warranty people to buy him a new engine, but a CA spec 350 to put in its place. The Turbo 200 trans acted "funny", but no problems were found. The tape stripes/decals had problems too. He tried to "kill" it one day, in something of a "grand plan" to get it like he wanted it to be. He put it in low gear and headed around the regional metro loop--in low gear and high rpm. About 30 minutes later, it was clattering and wheezing and he got to the shoulder before it stopped from the heat. He thought he'd finally accomplished what he was hoping for--a trashed engine and a cooked transmission. He called his wife to come get him and she did. They left the Monza on the side of the road until the next day. It was still there as nobody would steal it, apparently, or strip it for parts. He got into it, turned the key, and it started right up. No noise, no problem. The transmission worked too. They kept it for a while longer and made more payments on it before trading it for something they were better attuned to. Everybody has some preset tolerance level in dealing with car issues. Some people reach their levels sooner than others. When that happens, it's "get rid of it" without regard to recouping the investment. That's when some bargains can be had! Just some thoughts, NTX5467

I can understand the desires to have lots of nooks, cranies, and pigeonholes to put various vehicle classifications into, depending on what types or years of vehicles one might be interested in. Nothing wrong with that -- except -- that it might fragment things up and take away from the whole generalized forum as it is now. I've been into several of the "mega forums" (usually "powered by vBulletin) that have lots of places to look for information and posts. When you go in there, you tend to get the inclination (from all of the posting areas) that it's going to be totally "full" of information AND the information you might be looking for, all segmented out for easy finding. So you go into the area you "think" you need to look in, according to the title, and find that the last post in there was 90 days ago. Then you look other places and find that there really is not what you suspect might be there, but that many of the posts are not really that current. So, the reaction is that it's not that active of a site and you'll look elsewhere, somewhere where it's easy to deal with and such. In reality, there could well be some good archived information in there, but if you don't find it pretty quick, you'll probably go somewhere else. A somewhere else that appears to be more active. Strange thing -- "perceived activity" is somewhat synergistic, even if it's not the information you might be looking for. In the General Forum, I think there are some preferences that can be set by the user, like how many posts per page and such are displayed. Perhaps it might be possible to code each main post with regard to year and model of Buick it might pertain to and then use that for some sort of search/sort function for the user when they login each time? Or some way flag each post with a symbol for that information? Then, if none of the flags were raised for the particular user, it would return to the default mode, which would be the forum as we have it now. A few things that seem to be missed in the comments are some of the things I really like about the current setup. If there's something I've already looked at, when I click on that thread again, it goes right to the newest post since I last looked at it. No need to read the whole string of posts again--which is neat. Plus the "number of new posts since you last logged into the site". Really great--and something that few others I've seen do. Email notification of new posts/responses to something you posted? It's a neat deal, but it's one of those things I usually turn off if given the chance. Clutters up the mailbox and then you have to deal with the emails and go back into the site to see what someone else replied. If I'm in a hurry, I don't need that sort of complication or diversion. Kind of like knowing you've got a new gift under the Christmas tree, you'll not rest until you find out what it is, even if there are other things to be concerned with. Just my orientation on that subject and I respect those that might like those things too. There might be a few tweaks that could be done to the existing site to enhance it, but from what I've seen, it's pretty dang good as it is. It's easy to use and get acquainted with, which counts for a lot to me. It's what I might consider "an efficient setup" too, especially compared to others of its type. I hope that Roberta (the BCA operative/moderator) and Peter (the HOST of this forum and the ones on the left side of the screen) can come up with something that will provide the desired enhancements without putting so much added complications into the mix that we lose the simplicity of the existing situation. Nor the perception of "activity" by others that might be checking things out. Just as with different chapters of the BCA or different car clubs, there might be some general tendencies that are common with them all, but each entity has its own particular mix of personalities, demographics, and orientations. This forum and the other websites/forums mentioned in the earlier comments usually tend to be the same way--the same but different. What works for one and makes it great is not necessarily the way to make or expect the others to act too. Yet each one fills a particular need for the participants of each one and adds to the general orientation of enthusiasm for the Buick Hobby and the car hobby in general. One website/forum might lean more in one direction than one of the others, but they all are part of a Buick Enthusiast Network of sorts. In the early days of the Internet, there were some main forums/newsgroups/websites that had lots of information and activity. Then as more Internet Providers and Portals came into existence, each one started their own version of "Yahoo Groups" or GeoCities "Communities" and each one has tended to attract a particular group of people that might not know what else is out there for them to investigate and enjoy. As things have evolved, being involved in several forums can take quite a lot of time and energy--not to mention remembering all of the passwords and login identities for each one. It would be nice if the BCA website had scads of production information and other things available on Buick vehicles, as some other websites do, but after you have seen that information, you tend to go other places for other information and interactions--by observation. So, some enhancements might be good, but trying to make this forum/website into something else than what it currently is--and have all of the desired features of other forums--might be not be optimum in the long run. I also suspect that whatever is done by Peter to this forum might also have to be mirrored in all of the other AACA hosted forums too--a possibly significant side issue. Not to mention the fact that the other forums' users might like what they have just fine "as is". Not to say that the enhancements/changes to this forum might or could be the prototype of formats for all of the AACA hosted forums to evolve into as things progress into the future. Several things to consider . . . Personally and with all due respect, adding a "time frame" to the "implementation of demands/requests for changes" strikes me as being a little out of whack considering our "free ride status" from our Host. If the BCA was paying for this space, it might be a different situation--at least in my perspective. Let's let our Host, in concert with our Moderator, respond with a proposed time table for these things to happen. They are the ones that will be making things happen and know what it will take to get from Point A to Point C or D. Respectfully, NTX5467

With respect to Chrysler electrical systems, I have not figured out why it seems that others have problems in that area and we never did with the Chrysler products we've owned and known about, at least to the magnitude that is alluded to. Seems that every '72-'90something pre-Ram Dodge pickup that friends have bought or traded for have something rigged in the wiring for some reason. Horn buttons are somewhat common it seems, but the fix to do it right took less effort and time to do that they spent doing the rigging. Whether it was due to some auto supply or dealership parts person saying "We can't get that any more" (when they could get the part, or it took a larger part than the customer desired to purchase) is open for debate, or if it was more due to the various demographics of the owners at that time of the trucks' lifespan. On our '72 Newport, the dash lights had a ground strap that was anchored with a Phillips head screw that held the trim panel on. When the screw got loose, the "flood light" lighting went out. A simple tightening took care of it. On my '70 Monaco Brougham, the horn did not work when I bought it (in '75). I was advised of that by the dealer, but we thought he didn't know it had a Rim Blow wheel on it. Turned out the rim blow would "auto contact" whenever the interior temp got over about 80 degrees. I later found a cooked horn relay too, plus that other brands with rim blow wheels had worse "failure" issues. Not to mention that when the horn blew for extended periods of time, the spring that held the contact in the turn signal switch would weaken and cause an open in the circuit there. The instrument panel bulb sockets on that car had a strange issue with the ears fracturing and the particular lights not working. Same sockets that GM used, but they seemed to break until I got most of them changed out. On my '67 Newport, it stopped running one night. After geting it back to the house, I found some wiring issues in the main lead wire to the ignition switch under the instrument panel. Seems the former owner had stripped some insulation from that wire to attach another wire for something, then took the "something" off and put some of the famous chewing gum paper around it or something of that nature. A new section of wire properly connected fixed that. Then a flaky bulkhead connector terminal in the same circuit showed up later. When I got my '68 LeSabre, the horn didn't work so I got a new turn signal switch for it. Once I found out which switch it needed, it was no problem to change it out. BUT putting the horn button back onto the steering wheel and getting it to work was a "trick". Finally got it back together and it worked. The late '60s full size Ford padded dashes looked neat, until they cracked out in the speaker "hole" section. They were quite thick, as it turned out when they broke open. Similar for the Pontiac Fiero padded dash panels. Later model GM and Ford vehicles have had their share of electrical issues too. There's a couple of reasonably current bulletins out for GM vehicles regarding "thermal events". Not to mention the "thick film" engine control modules that Ford has had trouble with. Nor the Magnavox ignition modules that were on many Buick 3.8L V-6s in the later '80s or the MAF failure issues on the similar vehicles. Usually, many of these issues are not quite as common as many would want you to believe, but most every brand of vehicle has some issues from time to time--including Mercedes Benz. Getting a used car sometimes provides some interesting "adventures" in electrical repairs! Sometimes due to prior-owner "modifications" or sometimes just normal deterioration of the components. Definite learning experiences, which can generate some good "war stories". And then some vehicles in certain people's hands just seem to have problems when someone else could have the same vehicle with no problems whatsoever. I've seen some of that over the years. One model year has no problems but the one just in front or just behind it has lots of trouble. Lots of variables! Enjoy! NTX5467

As mentioned, if you are getting sufficient voltage to the connection for the heating element, then it would be the culprit. But . . . getting to that point in the diagnosis could take some time and effort. The electricals on the newer systems is the switch with the indicator light, plus the part of the switch that varies the "warm", "warmer", "warmest" settings for the heat. On most of the late model GM vehicles, you punch the switch successive times to vary the heat setting from what it is when you punch it the first time. From the switch, there usually is a relay and/or control module that sends power to the heating element(s) in each seat with seat heater elements. As mentioned, the heating element is part of the seat cover. In some years, you have to buy the entire seat cover to get a new heating element (on some of the current DeVilles, there can be a total of 4+ different heating elements in each seat!). So, knowing how many elements that might be in your seat and which ones might not be working is important. Typically, there's usually one on the seat cushion and one in the seat lean back cushion, both run by the same circuit. Also, each seat has it's own switches and power circuit. Now, in the situation that you discover the heating element to be bad, it is possible to change just the heating element without replacing the entire seat cover. To do this, you first take the cover off of the seat and turn it over on a work area. You can feel through the backing material in the seat cover to see the dimensions of the heating element, plus see where the wire disappears into the cover. Now, from this point on, you proceed with caution and at your own risk . . . but this is basically the procedure as detailed in some late model Cadillac service bulletins for non-operating seat heaters. From the area where the wiring disappears into the bottom side of the seat cover, you carefully and gently put a slit in the fabric laterally from the wiring entry area. Careful to not puncture or slice the outer seating surface (leather is expensive to replace!) as you do this! Then you can carefully pull out the heating element from between the backing fabric and the outer seating surfaces of the seat cover. The heating element is a flexible item of a particular size. It's about 1/8" thick, if I recall correctly. With the element in hand, you can then head down to a Cadillac dealer, or Buick dealer too, to see if they have any of the heaters in stock, that you might match for size. Seems like the larger ones are about $75.00 each, if I recall correctly. Hopefully the connectors will match what you have too. They might be listed as "service items" for the Riviera too, so that would be something to investigate. As you might notice, in the body of the heater you can see where the wires snake through the base fabric. It might be possible to trim the one you find to the size of your old one, if it's not too much different--provided you can't get the exact one you need for your car. For good measure, you might ask the dealership people to get you a copy of the Cadillac DeVille bulletin on replacing the seat heaters. To reinstall the heating element, you carefully reinsert the heating element into the seat cover assembly, making sure that you get it "flat" and correctly positioned in the cover as you'll be sitting on it later on). I think there's some procedure to close up the slit you made in the inside part of the seat cover, but once you get the cover reattached to the seat, it should not really matter, I suspect. The key thing is to fully troubleshoot the seat heater electrical system to see just where the problem is. This is one of the things that it might be better to let competent dealership people undertake as they can pull up the repair procedure from online dealership-only GM information sources. This is one of those "some disassembly required" situations just to find out where all of the electrical components, other than the heating elements, reside in the vehicle wiring harnesses. Also, considering the increased sophistication of the Body Control Module and things it "commands" to happen, it's functions might be an issue in this situation too. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

Robert, that is a great website and story!!! Love the license plates too!! 1956 Buicks were in a distinctive class of their own back then--and now too. Very neat cars. I suspect we're all glad you found your Buick and will continue to cherish it for many years to come--not everybody has that chance or can follow their dreams as you have in this situation. Congratulations! When my uncle was discharged from the Air Force in 1956, one of the first things he and my aunt did when they got back Stateside from New Foundland, was to buy a new 1956 Buick Special 2-dr sedan. White over black with a red interior. 3-speed manual, white wall tires and wheel covers, heater, and no radio. It was quite a bit different from the Plymouths and Chevrolets in the family at that time. So, I have some fond "growing up" memories of the '56 Buicks too. Enjoy! NTX5467

If you really want to see some good comparison tests, seek out some of the CAR LIFE magazines of the later 1960s. Most of the tests they did were multi-car affairs with a pretty even mix of Ford, GM, and Chrysler products. A generally good mix of the various GM cars too. The vehicles they had were usually much more evenly matched than what Motor Trend did back then. CAR LIFE also did some good single car tests too. One thing I really liked about the way CAR LIFE did things was that everything was done as scientifically as possible, complete with extensive "spec sheets" on each vehicle. MUCH more extensive than Motor Trend ever had too! Their testing was not so much about generating numbers in acceleration, stopping, or handling, they also had lots of action shots of the cars doing those various things. Many underhood pictures too. For example, instead of just using a skid pad for their handling evaluations, they found some real world curves and such to run each of the cars through at a specified speed, for example, and then taking pictures of the cars as they went through the turn and at what speed. HIGHLY revealing! In a "powercar" test (full size cars with musclecar-sized engines), it was amazing that the Michelins on the '69 LTD 429 were staying on their rims in that corner (due to the understeer in the Ford chassis combined with sidewall deflection) whereas the Dodge Monaco 440 (with belted tires) drove through with less lean and with no drama. Most of the full size GM cars had rear sway bars at that time and they did well too. Other than all of the engineering data and photography, they were extremely even handed in their evaluations. If something was not up to snuff, they mentioned "why" that car was "weak" in that particular area. NO JDPower stuff there! Unfortunately, by 1972, the Petersen Publishing Company (i.e., Motor Trend) had bought them up and that brand of testing seemed to vanish. Motor Trend did some multi-car comparison tests, but it seemed that most of them of that era were not comparing apples with apples in many cases. If it was a musclecar test, it seemed they all had 3.91 or so gears in them. What CAR LIFE got was much more like what you'd find on the dealership lots (i.e., "real world" vehicles). CAR LIFE was also the leader in doing very well presented technical articles on the many advances in automotive technology and equipment in the later 1960s. Tires and chassis interactions, fuel economy, emissions, and engine performance were just some of the subjects they covered, while not glorifying (Whoops! make that "showcasing") their advertisers in the progress (as some did and still seem to do). Each corporation's vehicles had their own unique sounds they made back then, especially with door latches and such. Not to mention starters and transmissions. That was part of what made those cars so neat, especially now that much of that has been engineered out of them. Ford started on a quality assembly orientation in the middle 1960s that resulted in their generally better panel fits, "dead on" tape stripes, smoother acrylic enamel paint, and such, plus quietness and greater road noise isolation than what GM or Chrysler had. The Fords did ride smooth and generally as "Quiet as a Rolls Royce", but they had much more understeer in the chassis than any other brand of car. Steering was "isolated" too. But that was "luxury" at that time. Chrysler and GM had wiring systems that were pretty much "on the same page" with respect to how they were laid out. Ford did things a little differently. Whereas GM had a firewall bulkhead connector with about 20 single wires coming through it, Ford used one that had fewer wires. After the particular wires came through the bulkhead, they then spread and branched out into the many different circuits (including inline fuses and circuit breakers!) behind the instrument panel. I know all of this from an experience in helping a guy in the college dorm I was in fix his 1969 Mercury Marquis after his girl friend missed a low water crossing down on Padre Island (submerging the front section of the car in the Gulf of Mexico). I took him down to the Lincoln-Mercury dealership in Lubbock to get the things he needed to replace. He asked about a wiring diagram and the service manager brought out a book, a normal-sized service manual for just the wiring, and then proceeded to spread it out from fender to fender on a Lincoln's core support (that just happened to be handy). Unlike what I'd seen of GM and Chrysler wiring diagrams at that time, Ford built theirs in foldout fashion and "actual size scale". Ford was also much more dependent on manifold vacuum to run various things too. Chrysler and GM used a mix of cables, levers, and such whereas it seemed that Fords had much more rubber vacuum lines behind the instrument panel--not to mention under the hood on the later emissions controlled vehicles. I wondered if the desire to be so dependent on rubber for those things might have gone back to the early days of the Ford Motor Company when they owned their own rubber plantation? All of the cars of the "mid-century" era and later had their own unique characters and identities, even though they were competing for the same customers. That, plus the great diversity of optional equipment and trim levels and such were some of the things that made the American Cars and Trucks of that era so neat and interesting. "Those Were The Days"! Now, we're lucky if we have more than two different interior colors to choose from! Just some thoughts . . . NTX5467

There is a reason that GM specified that screen on the MAFs, which you mentioned one part of why they do it. One way that GM computers "gauge" the amount of air going into the motor is via a "bridge circuit" that keeps the "wire" in the air flow heated to a particular heat level as the air flows over it, trying to cool it in the process. The amount of "juice" going through the circuit to keep the wire heated up is the signal to the computer of the amount of air the engine is injesting under particular conditions. Therefore, having a homogenous flow of air into the MAF is important, just as having a homogenous flow of air into a carburetor is--keeps the fuel curve "in specs". Of course, for the engine to really "feel" that extra air, it first has to have an air path that's way too restrictive in the first place. A better choice of long term action might be to not remove the screen from the MAF, but to remove any baffles in the air box setup of the vehicle (where the air filter element resides) and possibly openning up any air intake snorkles on said air box (but do not do anything to make WATER entry any easier than it currently might be!!!) with these additions. Finding some smooth tubing to replace the flex hoses would be a really good start too! Many of those baffles and resonators in the intake tract are there for noise control rather than efficient air flow. If GM could have spec'd a MAF with "no screen" to save a little money and not affect emissions performance, you can probably bet that it would not be there. Many of the mods that you might consider are fully discussed on many of the GM engine websites, especially for the late model Grand Prixs. Seems like two such sites are ZZPerformance.com and 3800Performance.com, plus probably RegalGS.org? By observation, most of the performance "tricks" and "mods" for the later model 3800 engines are talked about in the late model fwd Grand Prix websites, but they work on Buicks and Oldsmobiles that use the 3800 too. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

Fuel economy is HIGHLY affected by "Idle Time" and acceleration periods, much of which could be operative in "town driving". This is really illustrated in a modern vehicle with an "Instant Fuel Economy" and "Average Fuel Economy" readouts from the onboard trip computer. The best way to determine if an engine's "up to snuff", efficiency wise, would be to find a gas station near an interstate highway or regional loop. Fill up the tank, hit the freeway, set the cruise and drive in a general speed range that is fast enough to be "with traffic" for about 60 miles or so. If there's a regional loop, it works well for this during off-peak traffic times and tends to negate the effects of wind and such. When you get back to the original gas station, then clock the mileage and fill up the tank. This sort of test is a much better determiner of whether or not the engine is working "as designed" (in something of a "steady state cruise" situation) rather than "town driving". Sure, mpg is important in town driving too, but driving style and the "stop and go" factor can make a normally economical vehicle into a "hog" of sorts. The other side issue is that most gasoline engines start getting into their "efficiency zone" at about 2000rpm. Town driving will most probably let that happen "not very much", especially in a high gear steady speed situation. In a new Lesabre Limited I rented back in the summer, I determined with the help of the onboard trip computer, that moderate acceleration to the posted speed limit (or traffic flow) and then immediately backing off to maintain that speed can result in the best instant and average fuel economy in "town driving". Using the "coast" orientation after reaching the target speed helps too, when possible. In general, make sure the front end alignment "toe-in" is set as close to possible to "zero" within the factory specs. Making sure the tires are inflated to the 28-32psi range will help too. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

Are you talking about the HID "lookalike" bulbs (color of the bulb's light) or real HID? There ARE serious differences in these two setups! Not to mention "cost"! Seems like the Sylvania website has information on HID conversions. One reason that many factory vehicles with HIDs have them only on the low beams is cost. For example, GM doesn't sell just a HID bulb, but the whole headlight assembly (per side, as on the Escalades) that includes the transformer to run the HID light. Very pricey, compared to the price of a normal headlight bulb! One other note . . . if the bulb does not fit the designated housing correctly, DO NOT use it. A while back, a new Cavalier came into the shop with the complaint that the DRLs would not work. Upon disassembly of the headlight housing, it was discovered that the registered owner's (high school age) child had installed some "trick" headlight bulbs, HOLDING THEM IN WITH DUCT TAPE(!!!!). Plus, the BCM read different resistance values and would not let the DRLs work, so OEM spec headlight bulbs were installed to correct the problem. Messing with the reflectors on ANY headlight can seriously affect the designed beam pattern, just as a bulb with a different filament spacing from the reflector can. Beam pattern is something that is designed in and must pass "muster" with the DOT before the lights are approved for sale. Putting the headlight's filaments farther away from or closer to the reflector, as in putting different bulbs might do if they are not the same basic part number as the OEM production bulbs, will affect the ultimate beam pattern and light output of the assembly. Putting higher wattage bulbs in (for "more light") can also run hotter and cause issues with the headlight housings "melting", not to mention overloading the wiring to the headlights. It's not the lights brightness or color that affects what we see as the light pattern on the road, it's the reflector and light bulb interface (plus the "fluting pattern on the inside of the headlight's outer lens surface) that makes a particular beam pattern. European code lights have different patterns than US code lights do, especially in prior times. It's your car, your money . . . yet it could be the safety of others on the road and yourself if you end up with a bad set of headlight assemblies as the result of some modifications. Please do read through the Sylvania website, with respect to automotive products for more information. There's also lots of interesting information on the Daniel Stern Lighting website (www.DanielStern.com) (I think that's the url for his site, if memory serves correctly). Just some thoughts, NTX5467

I'll concur that possibly there might be some "expansions" of this site in some cases, but I also concur and have observed that too many "segments" in a board can do more harm than good or be "harder" to use. Over the past few years, I've been into many other boards (Buick and non-Buick). Some seem to have "pages" of sections to cater to every whim of any enthusiast of that particular marque, which looks good on the surface. One would perceive that "anything" they desired to find might be in those forum's posts. Unfortunately, I've seen that such is not always the case. Some websites/forums have great amounts of statistical information on the vehicles they pertain to. Others are more conversationally oriented. Many have links to other websites with additional information. It used to be that "webrings" were one way to find lots of information on particular vehicles. But the way the proliferating forums/boards have evolved, the webrings seem to be of lesser importance in more recent times. Webrings can find you more people of specific interests (that have put up websites on their cars and interests), but the forums will bring you "everybody" at one time or another. My observations have usually been that certain types of people will tend to gravitate toward each other and the same seems to be true of these forums/boards. That's what makes the RegalGS site "work" just as some of the other GM vehicle sites/forums--some degree of specialization within a given "dimension" or niche. For example, if you desire to learn how the knock retard system works on the newer 3800s, that's in one of the websites/forums devoted to the current production Regals/Grand Prixs. Yet, looking for those things for me, and possibly others, is not a daily thing. And then we have this forum on the BCA website. The "General Forum" is just that--someplace that Buick enthusiasts can come together in ONE place to share information, relate historic information, and learn about the many things that have made Buicks great automobiles over the decades they have been produced. Not specific to any one area, but Buicks in general. A somewhat "non-intimidating" forum, when compared to others where a certain amount of knowledge is presumed for someone to even post in there. As was mentioned, this forum is what the participants make of it--which has been a very good forum and can continue to be in the future. One of the main reasons that I normally monitor these forums is the ease of use of the AACA forums compared to some of the others out there. Sometimes, having "too many posting options" can be more detrimental than beneficial to the site as a whole. Plus, one login gets you into the other AACA hosted forums/boards too. When I go into one of the "large menu" websites/forums, I usually come away underwhelmed. Some have good data or information, but with so many posting options, you have to check everything to see what's actually there. Unlike these AACA forums where you have more to look at without clicking on a multitude of posting areas. What might be a possbility could be some sort of archiving operation to sort the threads by subject and then have them archived in an appropriate section of the BCA website? Plus possibly an expanded "Links" section to known quality Buick-related websites/forums. Using the "networking" orientation might be a good orientation as we are all part of the larger family of Buick Enthusiasts. Yet getting reciprocal links to other websites/forums can be a little more difficult to do that some might perceive. Just like getting some of the members of other Buick-related enthusiast organizations to join the BCA. It can be a somewhat difficult "balancing" act to "be all things to all people" yet still offer the necessary specialization that can be beneficial to the enterprise. We certainly appreciate the great job that Roberta, the BCA operatives, and the AACA hosts do to give us this great tool to enhance our automotive interests! The "proof" is in the activity levels of this forum compared to others. Thanks, NTX5467

I seem to recall, from another forum, that Diamondback Classics can or has done some sort of revulcanizing operation to "make" whitewall tires. In those earlier times, the tires usually had a layer of white rubber that was under the black rubber, inside the sidewalls themselves. Many of the "whitewallers" of later times had a special grinder that ground out the black rubber down to the white rubber that was under the sidewall surface. Kind of like a lathe of sorts. As late as the early 1980s, I saw a whitewaller at a new car dealership working on some new cars that had come equipped with blackwall tires. Considering how much "meat" is NOT in the sidewalls of modern tires, it would seem that further grinding would not be a good situation, but "adding to" might be. Hope this might help . . . NTX5467

The sensor for the "Low Coolant" is most probably in the radiator tank (probably the passenger side?). About half-way down the tank, or thereabouts. Have you tried to top off the system after the engine has cooled down, after the initial refill? I suspect that on a "closed" cooling system, the "proper level" in the radiator, when the vehicle is cooled and such, is for the coolant to be actually up inside the filler neck of the radiator, not "below" that level as it might be on an "open" cooling system with no coolant reservoir or surge tank. What about the level in the coolant reservoir? Is it stable or not? Are there any visible leaks or seeps? Is it overheating too? Some of the later 3800s have been known to have coolant leaks in the intake manifold area (check with your dealer to see if it applies to your vehicle). Some engine/vehicle combinations have a bleeder valve at the "high point" in the cooling system. This allows the trapped air that might get into the cooling system during flush/refill operations to be purged from the system; works just like a brake fluid bleeder. I don't recall if your engine/vehicle combination ha such a bleeder valve, but it might be worth checking to see if it does. Even if it has a bleeder valve, the hose configuration and component locations on modern fwd vehicles can make it necessary to do several "top offs" after any type of coolant change/service as you have done. Depending upon the "flush solution" you used, it might have damaged the sensor, which is some sort of continuity circuit, I believe. They are not terribly expensive or hard to change, once you know where they are. Of course, changing one would require draining some coolant from the system so then you'd have to do the refill operation all over again. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

With all due respect, Chevy did use a similar wheel cover on Caprices, Monte Carlos, Camaros, and possibly a few other cars in the 1970 time frame, but usually just on 15" wheels (as I recall). Up until this mention, that's the only place I've known of them existing in any numbers. I do seem to recall seeing some on Rivieras of that time frame too. I would have to check the GM parts book, but I rather doubt they would have been on any Chevrolet 14" applications (i.e., Novas) due to their "lesser" place in the model chain--could be wrong, though. I thought they looked neat, though, and considered finding a set for my Camaro in the later '70s. Then I considered things like how far it extended from the wheel sidewall and related vulnerabilities. When I actually found one, I was amazed at how HEAVY it was! Knowing how much better cars usually ride with less sprung weight flying around in the wheel/tire combination, I decided I surely did not need a set of them. "Rare" does not always mean "desireable", by observation. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

I concur, great article and very well "pictured" too! A great contribution! Thanks, NTX5467

Brad, from what I've seen, the V-8s like that went into the GMC trucks and not Chevrolets. They had HydraMatics in them too. They might have been in the Chevys, but I haven't researched them that much. Don't recall seeing them listed in the light duty or medium duty parts listings, but then it's been quite a while since I've been in those books. Back then, if you wanted a "fancy" upscale pickup, you generally bought the fancier GMCs instead of the more plain Chevys. Many more 6 cylinders that I saw than V-8s, until the older 6 cylinders were discontinued in the earlier 1960s. Pontiac V-8s were used in the light trucks too. Pontiacs were in the 1/2 tons and the Buicks were in the heavier duty models, or vice versa? I found a neat book on GMC truck history a while back. It mentioned how the Buick inline 6s and others Buick engines were used in the early HD GMC trucks. The GMC that Cannonball Baker drove from the east coast to the west coast, setting speed records at the time, had a Buick engine in it. When Buick stopped building the inline 6s, that's when the GMC inline 6 cylinder engines were born. Just how much of the GMC 6 cylinders might have been similar to the prior Buick 6s was not mentioned, though, but I suspect that would be highly interesting. It was easy to see the great enthusiasm at the GMC division back then, although the production figures might have seemed "tame" by some modern standards. They were "cutting edge" trucks for the times and they were doing some neat things. A really neat book that chronicles all of those times. We've got a set of the older light duty and medium/heavy duty truck books at work, gathering dust in the computer age. I've also got an old Sealed Power/Perfect Circle engine parts book here. Lots of interesting historical information in the aftermarket parts book! As most of the light truck engines were rated for low octane fuels, they probably were in the 7.5 to 1 or 8.00 to 1 compression ratio range, kind of like an "export" car engine, with appropriately lower "net" power ratings. Back then, the engine the pickup came with had a plate with those ratings on the left hand kick panel, should anybody care to look (for licensing or titling or toll fee use, I suspect). Seems like the power ratings were in the front of the old Chevy light or medium duty truck parts books. Enjoy! NTX5467

"Sebring" was the coupe version of the Satellite, from 1971-'73. Sedans were all designated "Satellite". The "Plus" model was the higher trim level version and I believe was supposed to be "buckets and console" equipped as regular Sebrings most probably would have had a bench seat. Seems like they all had the silver paint on the lower part of the body and the "Plus" emblem had red paint in the insets of the letters. Price sounds "ballpark", but you might pickup a copy of the Old Cars Price Guide at one of the bookstore chain's magazine rack. The Standard Book of Chrysler lists production for Sebring-PLUS at 43,000 or so units that year, which was a lot more than in '71. By the time you start considering the fact it has a 400 B-block, then that would most probably knock that number down a bunch (especially if it's a factory 400HO 4-bbl version!) as most were probably 318s and 360s, I suspect. Many dealers might have "liked" the A-block cars better as they were easier to work on and the 360 2bbl probably ran almost as good as the 400 2bbl back then. Nothing wrong, per se, with the cars, but the styling didn't really catch on for that body series of Plymouths back then. Kind of overshadowed by the Chargers, to some degree. If you have seen the red Sebring coupe that's been on the cover of a couple of hot rod magazines earlier this year, it's obvious the lines are much better than we suspected "back then". Not that you should take on a modification program with the car, but they always did look good in certain colors. I suspect the cars were somewhat underappreciated back then too and probably still are today to some extent. I also suspect the attrition rate on them was somewhat high too. End result, the are somewhat "rare" in any form today. You could do a LOT worse than to keep it most original, even if it is a 2bbl 400 (which probably has 2.93 or 2.71 gears for easy cruising and fuel economy. Some good tires (OEM spec size) and HD shocks will help the handling and ride too. It kind of relates to the Charger as the Challenger relates to the Barracudas back then--same basic mechanicals in a litle bit shorter wheelbase (and a few inches less rear seat leg room) car. Check out the price guide, check your finances to purchase and refurbish what's left to do, and use your best judgment. From an investment standpoint, it might never be worth what a similar Charger might be, but I doubt you'll loose any money on it either and STILL have the same amount of fun in a car that is not that common today. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

This is very accurate. GM is VERY specific about the people coming in to get the replacement keys having valid picture ID and proof of ownership. As stated, they can track the access to the key code part of DealerWorld just as easily as any other Internet activity can be tracked, which is VERY accurately. What I also do, when presented with a replacement key situation is make a copy of the driver's license/photo ID and the other documents presented in order to get the key. Then, I put that information, with the key code printout, in a file that I purge yearly. That way, if there are any questions, I will have the specific information of who the person was. I highly suspect that Ford and DaimlerChrysler and others have similar corporate policies on replacement keys. I'd rather make a customer mad or tell them to call Roadside Assistance than have anything to do with a vehicle theft--even if they start talking about what good friends they are with our dealer principal or other dealership people (who also know the rules we have to play by). As for deliberately covering up the VIN plate on the vehicle, that in itself might raise the eyebrows of the law enforcement community as they would probably not presume you to be "protecting yourself", but "hiding something" instead, especially as some vehicle thefts might not be discovered until days after they happen. That would be the owner's judgment call to do that as they are the ones "splaining" that activity to the law enforcement people. Of course, if you have an OnStar subscription on your newer GM vehicle, they can find it if has been stolen and is still driving around. There's also another aftermarket version of a similar service. From what I understand, LoJack is much more "hit and miss" in finding vehicles than OnStar might be; something about a LoJack receiver-equipped police car has to be in the same area as the LoJack equipped vehicle that has been stolen. Seems that the news people like to replay that VIN/key story every so often. It can be an awareness situation, but as the dealership people have seen the same things we've seen from the manufacturers, I would hope that the prevalence of easily getting a key "as depicted" would be greatly reduced. If they do find some dealership employees participating in such a situation, that would lead them right to the real operatives with very little extra effort. As stated, sometimes watching body lanquage and listening for other conversational cues by the people desiring the keys can be the tip-off that something is not what it needs to be. People that have genuinely locked their keys in the cars typically act and conduct themselves in a particular manner and most probably will not complain about complying with corporate policy in this area. Nor do they complain about supplying me with their picture ID, which I then make a copy of. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

If, during the needle variations, there was a slight scraping noise coming from the general area of the speedometer head, it's probably the bushing in the back of the speedometer head that has worn and let the two speed cups contact each other. The cable runs one with the magnet in it and it spins inside the other cup that is attached to the needle. A clockspring is attached to the speedometer needle's shaft that returns it to zero. If the clockspring was not damaged, the needle should have returned to zero when the cable was turned backwards or if the instrument panel was "jarred" lightly. Still, it sounds like there should have been some noise during the failure mode. In any event, you'll need to find a speedometer shop to get it checked out and the calibration checked afterward. Perhaps there are some members in your area that would have a recommendation for a speedometer shop that can do the work. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

With regard to the chip key theft deterrent systems, many times the edges of the chip will wear away from use. The chip complete the circuit within the key cylinder. If the theft deterrent computer "reads" a wrong chip key or no chip key, then no "start" signals will be sent to the ECM. So, first thing would be to take the key to the dealer and get them to put it into their "decoder box" to see if a code is still being read. IF there's any doubt, get them to cut you a new chip key (there are 13 or so different chip codes! so they are not all the same). From there, you'll need to make sure the key cylinder does not have an "open" circuit. Key information -- if you get a new key cylinder, it will come with a blank key in it for the "cut code" of the key. The dealership will use that blank to cut the new chip key, but the chip key will still need to match the code of the existing key. So . . . new key with the existing chip code. Chip keys are about $25.00 each. The VATS key cylinder will look like a regular ignition key cylinder, but it will have two orange wires coming from it with a connector plug. The key cylinder and the keys are the main "wear" items in that system. The separate VATS computer is elsewhere in the vehicle. As mentioned, if the VATS computer suspects anything is not as it should be, no "start" command is sent. If a new VATS computer is needed, it must match the chip code of the key. I concur, wiring that remote start system could be the entire problem so get it deactivated until you get the problem figured out. Could well be that is the whole problem too. Now . . . if the vehicle has a transponder key, there will be no visible chips in it. It'll look just like a regular key, except they usually have the stamping "PK3" near the head of the key. If the vehicle's systems do not recognize that key, it will crank but not start. The vehicle has to recognize that key as being correct for the vehicle just as a keyless remote has to be programmed to the partcular vehicle. Also, I suspect the vehicle could also have a factory keyless entry system. If the system does not read the vehicle as being "unarmed", it could keep things from working at all. If you have a remote start system, it's highly possible they had to deactivate ALL of the factory theft deterrent systems so it would work. Which would probably generate their unique keyless entry transmitters. Sounds like a good bit of wiring harness "whacking" to make it work too--just my gut suspicion. One reason that GM started offering remote start systems on many of their new vehicles is so everything would match and not have any "interface" problems, which could happen between some aftermarket systems and the factory security systems. Looks like there are several possibly failure modes in this situation. Personally, I don't see the need for remote start systems, especially in a vehicle with heated seats, but I know some people desire those systems. They might be a car theft waiting to happen, especially with an aftermarket system. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

As stated, the best way to expand your knowledge on these issues is to do the research yourself and then the fixes, provided you have the expertise and tools to do them. On any fuel injected engine, fuel pressure is highly important. On the later model GM engines, if they do not have at least the min spec fuel pressure, the injectors will not "fire". A restricted fuel filter can contribute to these things too. I've seen some late model light duty trucks that had "extended start time", meaning you had to crank them for longer than normal before they started. With the fuel pressure gauge hooked up, instead of the fuel pressure building quickly, it'd start low and then gradually rise during the cranking time until when it hit 55psi, then at 56psi it would finally start. Some later model Buicks have an access panel in the front of the trunk floor, so you don't have to remove the fuel tank to get to the fuel pump/sending unit. Not sure if yours does or does not have that access panel. On many of the Mass Air Flow sensors, the wire(s) that string from side to side are actually how the computer measures air flow. The cooling effect of the inflowing air is countered by the computer to keep them at a particular temperature level. More voltage to keep them heated, more air flow. Seems like it's called a "bridge circuit"? If those wires get caked or coated, it can effect the readings. To counteract that, many of those cars (TPI Corvettes have it) have a "burnoff relay/module" to self-clean the wires each time the vehicle is started and probably before it goes into closed loop operation. In some cases, removing the screen in front of the wires (a "popular hot up mod") can expose them to conditions they were not meant to endure and/or cause the fuel curve map to shift from where it should be. As with carbureted engines, fuel issues and ignition issues can produce similar situations. Knowing how the error codes can intereact or be caused by "side issues" can be necessary, but with a little common sense and a knowledge of how things work, they can be figured out. It still takes the correct amount of fuel and sparks at the right time to make things work "as designed". One other neat diagnostic tool can be one of the infrared temperature "guns". For example, if the area the temp sensor lives is really up to temp, but the sensor tells the computer otherwise, then the sensor could be faulty. Usually, there is a coolant sensor for the computer and then another one that runs the gauge in the instrument cluster. Sometimes, its the same sensor, many times they are different and screw into different parts of the engine (i.e, thermostat housing or the cylinder head). The basic RayTech gun is about $75.00 or less and goes to 500 degrees F, but if you want the 1000 degree F readings, they'll cost a good bit more (the higher temps can be used to read exhaust manifold temperatures at each port, for example, which can be used to find cylinders with weak spark or otherwise). ALSO be aware that in some of the earlier years, the trouble codes usually changed each year. Therefore, a particular code for one year's vehicle would mean something entirely different for the next year's vehicle. So make sure the code list you have is for the year of vehicle you actually have. Don't get frustrated and enjoy the learning experience. Using the trouble codes is a good way to do things, other than chunking parts at it until you might "get lucky". Making sure the computer gets accurate information makes for a better running vehicle. Enjoy! NTX5467

On the "body off" situation, not necessary on the TrailBlazer platform, as our tech has proved. BUT, why hasn't anybody gotten really excited about the necessity of dropping the front subframe out from under so many fwd cars to do engine work (fwd NorthStar V-8s in particular)? By "engine work", I mean taking the heads off somewhere after the 150,000 mile mark, for example, not normal maintenance items. Seems like all of the fwd transaxles have to come out from the bottom too, which necessitates a holding fixture to keep the engine in the original position as the subframe is removed. Some of the earlier GM X-car fwds even had bolt-together subframes to possibly help with that situation. Also seems like that as the Ford factory warranty flat rate times have allegedly been cut "past the bone", those guys would not do anything they didn't have to--period. In any event, each tech has their own preference in how to do their work, yet they only get paid for what "the book" says the job is worth. Past that, it's their determination on how to best do the work in the place they have to do it and the tools to do it with. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

Main controller of idle speed is the Idle Air Control (also called Idle Speed Control). It's a stepper motor that runs the valve back and forth to control the air control through the idle air passages in the throttle body. This unit gets its commands from the Engine Control Module. Sometimes, they'll fail and hang up at mid travel. They should set a code too. In that same relationship, the related passages in the throttle body should be open and clean, not just "clear". This is just as important as having a working valve. The other issue might be a sticking or partially open EGR valve. You can remove the EGR valve, needing a new gasket to reinstall it, to see if the seating area of the pintle valve has accumulated deposits to prevent it from seating fully in the "off" mode. This can affect idle speed and quality too. Should also set a code too. If the EGR valve is not functioning, as in held just a hair open, it can cause an idle speed issue too. The throttle body getting "coked" usually keeps the throttle valve from closing fully at idle. This can also interact with the other IAC and EGR issues too. In some cases, backflow of the EGR gasses as they might enter the air intake track, sometimes more upstream than you might suspect, can result in these deposits. In the early days, B-12 was an acceptable cleaning agent, but there are now more specialized Throttle Body Cleaners on the market which usually work better and quicker than B-12. In some respects, "something" is better than "nothing". Probably just a little maintenance can take care of the problem. The EGR valve would be the most expensive item to replace, probably. Enjoy! NTX5467

There are many engine "rebuild kits" on the market from different vendors--including hot rod parts vendors. Used to be that TRW or Sealed Power would assembly customized "kits" from the necessary parts in the NECESSARY sizes for a particular engine, at a decreased price, from what the individual parts would cost. TWO things to consider before you jump off into such a venture--until somebody (i.e., machine shop) pulls the engine apart, vats the disassembled parts, and then cleans things up to see what the wear patterns are, then ordering a kit is not a very intelligent thing to do. Sure, you can order up .030 oversize pistons (as that's usually where many engines end up with the minimum "clean up" bore job) and bearings for .010 undersize journals (either from wear or from polishing to get the journals cleaned up--or Chevy's "famous" .008" undersize production journals) and then appropriate rings and other items. One side issue is that many of these "hot rod" vendors will want to probably sell you more than what you need (with respect to forged pistons for a street engine, for example) as compared to OEM spec items that are plenty good enough to use. So, you're going to need a machine shop to start with, for the cleanup and machine work at least, before you can pretty much do anything (unless you have that in your back garage). Second issue relates to the first. If you find a competent and reliable machine shop in the first place, if you let them procure all of the parts/gaskets/etc. for the job, then if something comes in wrong or late, it's their issue to deal with. If YOU get the stuff ordered, then if it comes in wrong or late, it's YOUR issue to deal with--at their expense of having their work like tied up with your delayed job--and "make things right" with respect to getting the right parts. This is exactly why many machine shops will not do one of these jobs with the customer supplying the parts. Sure, shop the mail order outlets for pricing, if you desire, as a point of reference more than anything else. Shop the local auto supplies that deal in these things too, which can give you a better handle on what the real costs might be, not to mention being more realistic with respect to "normal" replacement parts versus "hot rod" items. Then, with these researched items, head off to the machine shop with your "shopping" inquiries. Most of the machine shops in the area might have a "book" of prices for various labor operations, so shopping for the ones with the best reputations and quality of machine work can be important. With a generally low mileage engine, you might not suspect it would "need much", but if it's going to be what would be expected of a rebuilt engine, then you need to look at "everything". That would mean the basic cylinder bore operation, hopefully with deck plates, gapping the rings, doing a complete valve job and probably reconditioning the valve guides (with the late model-style silicone bonnet seals, checking the rod bearing bores in the rods, new valve lifters (with pushrods and rocker arms as needed), possibly a new stock spec cam (what Mellings and others sell as "stock" are actually a little different in specs than what Chevy originally sold) too. Timing chain can either be the OEM style or a replacement timing set with steel sprockets. Maybe even a new oil pump, with stock pressure and volume, and a new pickup screen (if needed). A little bit more involved than just "rings and bearings". If aftermarket pistons are used, then a balance job would be in order, as most aftermarket pistons (in oversizes) are not the exact same weight as the stock pistons were. On that subject, you might figure in a new harmonic balancer too. Then there's the related items to consider. Water pump, fuel pump, carb rebuild, ignition system items, plug wires, starter, belts, hoses, and even a new battery. Also be advised that many of the "budget" engine parts on the market today are just that--"budget". Some will give decent service life, others will not--THIS is where a good machine shop comes in as they usually know where to use name brand items and where the other "value" brand items can be used. If they've been around long enough, they also probably know what name brand items have deteriorated after becoming part of a conglomerate corporation and which ones might have improved. In other words, a good machine shop operation (with competent machine shop employees) can be a valuable asset in any engine rebuild operation. How much it costs to get a big block Chevy engine rebuilt these days might be more than what you might have expected, even if it's "just a driver", but spend the extra money and use the better shop. Everything usually has a cost, somewhere along the line, whether it's piece of mind or having to deal with problems created by not spending enough to do the job correctly "after the fact". It's your money, your car, and your judgment of how to spend your money. Enjoy! NTX5467