ronbarn

Most likely a 1928 Model 68. I assume it is a flat head straight-8 engine. You should contact Roland Deery in Mont Albert, Victoria. He has a 1929 Model 68. You might also consider joining The Marmon Club for help and parts.

AACA sells a marvelous robe that would work well for your wife. Am sure Steve will be glad to sell one to you for a Valentine present.

I have a lot of information on Keller including a PP presentation on CD. My Keller is one of three known to still exist. 16 of the 18 cars made in Huntsville, AL (factory located on Redstone Arsenal) during 1948 and 1949 had Hercules IXB3 engines. Two had Continental. If they had gone to production, they planned to use the Continental. Contact me if you want more.

John was a true gentleman and a fervent AACA member. My life was made better with having his friendship.

During my years of judging, particularly when I was at a higher organizational level than Field Judge, I ran into several cases similar to this one. Before I go on let me stress that these several cases were a very small percentage of the total numbers of vehicles shown and judged in AACA meets. The scenario generally went something like this: 1. A member buys a fairly rare and or unusual vehicle (in some cases, very rare and unusual). 2. The member realizes that the manufacturer did not have a really firm handle on good design, good manufacturing practice, or good quality control and (right or wrong) decided that some of the problem areas could not possibly have been caused by the ravages of time or poor care on the part of a previous owner. 3. The member has little or no knowledge of the competence of the vast majority of AACA judges and assumes that they will be completely unable to judge the car. 4. The owner has a genuine desire to not overrestore the car. (Unfortunately, in some cases this was just an excuse not to do a proper restoration.) 5. To assure that the car will be judged as the member wants it to be judged, the member starts waving the red flag and wants the opportunity to "train" the judge team before the fact. In the old days this "red flag waving" was done on the phone, by snailmail, and/or face-to-face confrontation with some higher level of judging official. When I was that official my advice was gather the documentation, be available when questions are asked and stay out of the way. Let the judges do their job. In every case that I knew of, the judges did an excellent job. They were able to differentiate between poor manufacting practices and poor restoration. I am not accusing the member who started this thread of any devious intent, but yes, I have seen instances when this same approach was taken for less than honorable reasons. I also understand the members concern. I am restoring a car that was manufactured by a company that wanted to get something off the line to show prospective dealers (a prototype). The workmanship in some areas was certainly poor - and the restoration will contain no effort to correct those areas. Fellow judges who have seen the car immediately saw the problem areas and were pleased that I was not trying to correct the problems. In final - restore the vehicle properly, blemishs and all, show the vehicle, and let the judges do their job.

This is another case of an individual showing a rare and unusual (according to his statements) whining about the inability of judges to know anything before he even shows the car. As Bob replied, documentation is very limited on race vehicle and a lot of the were built in home shops. What about those of us that are showing, or near showing, prototypes - most of those companies had NO mechanical lit and in one case I know of all of the sales lit showed photos of a car built by the previous company that they bought, not the cars they made. And only three still exist. Is it necessary to make a case against "ignorant" judges before the fact? If you think you have to train the judges before you show it, then don't show it at an AACA meet, and don't start whining before the fact. If you are willing to show it and have the documentation to substantiate your restoration, you are welcome.

Shayna Geller, Dot Bongi's replacement for scheduling seminars, is certainly getting a Seminar Scheduling 101 lesson. It really is very easy if you can rub your tummy, pat your head, tap dance and belch the Lone Ranger's theme song at the same time! Bless her for taking this difficult task.

Silverghost, Thanks, I sent him an email. Hopefully he can help me. Dan, I'll check the stack of Model A catalogs that I keep in the outhouse. Just think, I only thought they were there for when the Sears catalog was used up. I'm calling around to see if I can find one. Maybe check with Stevie.

I need to know a vendor for the small "badge" (nameplate, model/serial number plate, or whatever other name you call it) for Spartan horns.

Congrats Peter - Must be some details you left out so you will have to tell more over a brew at Philly.

Brad, There are few things better than having your own collection of books that cover the years of vehicles of your interest. You obviously understand this since you asked the question. Several of the above replies give you some excellent examples (Dyke's is a must for early vehicles). Owning an original is fine, but don't forget the opportunity to own a good copy - one that is available from the AACA Library & Research Center. If you are looking for some info on a specific make, year and model, the L&RC may be your best place to look. There is a major project to put the collection on-line. Go to www.aacalibrarycatalog.org to find out what is available. Right now that list is A - Mercedes, but they are adding more all the time.

SafeTFlex, Not wishing to top you, I'll tell my story anyway. I own a Keller, one of the 18 made in Huntsville, Alabama. I have a listing of all the vehicles they claimed in 1950 when they went belly-up. My car is #22 on the list (they counted seven vehicles that were made by predessor Bobbi-Kar). When I went to the DMV I showed them the list and told them that my car serial number was K-22. I did not have to ask for the supervisor - the clerk called her to get a decision. The supervisor told her to check the computer to see if there was another car in the state with a serial number K-22. The computer showed no other cars with that serial number, so the supervisor said, "Give it to Mr. Barnett's car". I love living in Alabama - no hassle with the DMV. Now all I have to do is get the registration on my 1909 Chase with a serial number 330. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pardon my use of an old cliche, "The check is in the mail".

The signals did go for almost $500 to a Marmon collector.

DO NOT fiber glass the inside. I've had to repair two tanks that were fiber glassed and it is a mess. It just not take exposure to gasoline, especially gasahol. Use a proper liner material that is alcohol resistant. Am sure the professionals you took it to will know that.

PULEEZE! It's the Marmon SIXTEEN (all caps). Howard Marmon received the SAE achievement award for this 490 CID 200 HP engine in 1931 and insisted that the marketers not refer to it as a V-16 since that was what Cadillac called theirs. All aluminum except for steel cylinder sleeves and crankshaft, it pulled more power per weight of engine than any other car - total engine weight was about 900 pounds.

I hear what you all are saying and have at one time another made similar comments, but like it or not most of these concours cars are dramatic. Now for 1937s comments. Year before last one car got a 1st in class at Amelia Island, Meadowbrook, and Pebble Beach (maybe some others I don't know about) AND also got a 1st Junior and Senior - all in the same year. And the owner does get his fingernails dirty and has skinned knuckles. As for the clear coats, even AACA rules allow that - as long as the color is a correct one of that year and model. So what's the beef?

I am skipping to reply to Jay Wolf's input, so pardon me if some one else has said the same thing. The original intent of the HPOF was to accurately identify those portions of the car that were untouched original. The form initially was intended to be completed by the owner to identify what he/she thought was original. The HPOF "judges" were then supposed to verify the original areas claimed by the owner. This information would then be recorded on the form. Now comes the good part - It was intended that the form identifying the original features would be placed on file at the AACA L&RC. That way a restorer would be able to contact the L&RC, find out who owned a vehicle of a certain make, model, year, etc., then contact the owner and use the information as a resource for proper restoration. Now comes the bad part - It never happened! The ball was dropped! There were several attempts to get the envisioned procedure implemented, but they fell on deaf ears. By now the ears that these attempts fall on are too new to the program to have any recollection of what the HPOF program intent was initially. Helping restorers is a wonderful concept, but there will have to be some procedural changes.

Am surprised no one has mentioned "free wheeling" transmissions - designed to eliminate motor braking when you let your foot off the gas. (Great fun on down mountain drives.) This subject came up in a meeting I had with a club 90 miles from here this evening. The question was, "Did Marmon ever have free wheeling?' I assured them that Marmon did not make that mistake.

DFer - "Discussion Forum User", in a very abbreviated format.

Terry, Thanks for your reply. I may be reacting to a situation that happened a long time ago when someone suggested that "AACA" be removed from the name "AACA Library & Research Center", a change I opposed then and would oppose again. If WE built it, and if WE are expected to keep it going, WE should be given a little credit - somewhere - even if John Q. does not currently know who WE is!

Unfortunately, I need a MARMOP for my 1927 E-75 MARMON "territory marking" roadster. I believe the cowl lamps are probably for a 1928 and 1929 Marmon model 68 and 78 car. I do not own one of these cars, but would gladly pay the $20 shown on the tag for the pair. If you want to sell the sidelights, let me know and I will place an ad in The Marmon News.

I am almost (read "almost. but not quite") sorry that I started this. Steve, thank you for your explanation of Marketing 101. The signs says museum "of" Hershey. "Of" is possessive, i.e. owned by! There is no reason why there could not be some small AACA logo someplace. I am dismayed that there is no museum board or employee response to this thread. Apparently they don't give a damn about what AACA members think. They should rest well assured that as far as this boy from Alabama is concerned that if they are not willing to admit a relationship to AACA (even in small type) they will not get my dollars.

We may just have the answer to this problem. Our club tech advisor for the 68 found one at Hershey. He is visiting with me now and just borrowed some books on making castings. It is a possibility that some repros may be available in the near future. Keep in contact.

On this thread there is mention of the AACA Museum. However, I noticed that the various ads for the museum, for example the one in front of Hershey World, call it the "Antique Auto Museum of Hershey". Nowhere on the small billboard type display does it say anything about any relationship with AACA. Is this an indication that although the museum people continue to hit us up for donations that they would prefer not to be associated with AACA?