ronbarn

I am going to ask one of the dumbest questions you all have ever heard. Is there a car oriented webmaster out there with some spare time on their hands? See, I told you it was a dumb question, but here is the problem: The Marmon Club needs help with its? website. The existing website was set up in conjunction with the business site of one of the members and the webmaster was an employee. He was apparently a nice young man, but really not into the cars - just doing the job assigned. He has since moved on with another career opportunity and we do not have a webmaster and the site is sadly out-of-date. I mentioned this to a couple of you AACA webmasters a couple of years ago (senior moment here since I cannot remember who), but circumstances which I would rather not mention at this time prevailed and nothing came of the discussions. We would now like to have communications with someone who would like to make our website an enhancement to the hobby. Some items for consideration include: 1. The Marmon cars were made from 1903 to 1933. They were one of the most prestigious cars made in the US and their factory was in Indianapolis, Indiana. Known for their advanced engineered and use of state-of-the-art materials, the Marmon was highly respected as a quality automobile. 2. We have an active membership of 300 internationally who own over 700 Marmon cars. 3. The Marmon News is a bimonthly newsletter and has won an Old Cars Weekly Golden Quill Award for the last three years. Club members are very supportive of the publication and I am confident that the same support will extend to the website. If you are interested in this challenging assignment, please contact me at ronbarn@otelco.net

A couple more thoughts on the overrestoration subject: 1. Original cast parts, such as the differential and axle housings had casting marks. Proper restoration would show these marks. But what if these items on your car have a lot of rust pitting and damage. Cleaning up that damage also covers the casting marks and all of a sudden you have a smooth "overrestored" part. Would it be better to just paint over the rust and damage? 2. We all know that there were factory defects that were either accidently built-in to the production process or due to sloppy worksmanship on the line. Years after the car left the line some well-meaning auto archaeologist finds a completely original car and determines that there was overspray on some part. Should we now try to recreate that overspray (or whatever error) on our restoration or restore the car to what was intended? How do you train a judge to determine what is an intentional restoration of a defect and what is sloppy restoration? I am restoring a prototype car. In this case some of the worksmanship was obviously hurried and sloppy. Do I restore it as it left the factory or restore it to what they would have intended to make if the company had survived? Assuming that I want to win awards (not necessarily a good assumption), I would run the risk of losing points with a restoration to what the car actually looked like because of obvious sloppy construction or as some suggest lose points for correcting factory defects, i.e. overrestoration. You may ask at this point, why not leave it alone and keep it as original? It is a woodie wagon and if I attempted to drive it with some significant wood rot, it would disintigrate and there would be no car at all. I do want to drive this car!

I thought I had replied, but apparently it did not get posted. Marmon stopped making a "six" in 1927. The Roosevelt was made to be the first straight-eight priced at less than $1000. Doubtful there would have been a limo version. Need more info but this sounds like a very interesting car. Please email me at ronbarn@otelco.net.

Just cannot resist jumping in here. I have several good friends who are in a financial position to have their cars restored by someone else. This is good since most of them don't know a sander from an open end wrench. They also know they do not have the skills and in several cases they don't want to clutter up the garage with a bunch of tools they don't know how to use anyway. HOWEVER, they love their cars just as much as us gearheads and choose to use their bank account instead of their limited skills to save another vehicle. This is NOT a bad thing. Another car has been saved. In some cases, whole collections of cars. Another point of interest is the term "professional restorer". In many cases these people (notice I did not state gender) are highly skilled, have the appropriate equipment, and along with the owner do the necessary research to complete a proper, and in some cases overrestored, vehicle. HOWEVER, I have seen many examples of vehicles where the "professional restorer" can only justify that title because they have a shop and some tools and charge for their time. They are no more competent (and in some unforturtunate cases, far less competent) than many of the people who do their own restorations. As mentioned earlier, for AACA competition all cars go on the showfield as 400 point cars. Let me extend that statement to say they are then judged as they appear on the showfield on that day. Not what they looked like last year or even last week. Not whether the were "professionally" restored or restored by the owner. Not whether they were trailered or driven. And certainly not by how much money was spent on the restoration. A suggestion has been made that overrestored cars be in a separate class, i.e they don't compete with owner restored cars. How do you determine that before the day of the show? At some point we have to admit that it is just not feasible to make separate classes for driven vs trailered, owner vs professionally restored (or what percentage of one or the other), low cost vs high dollar, orphan vs common, etc. A lot of competent individuals have spent a lot of hours over many years to come up with an AACA classification system that tries to let vehicles compete with similar vehicles. If carried to the illogical extreme of all of the varied this vs that considerations, we might as well assign every vehicle to its own unique class, award a first place trophy when they drive onto the field, dismiss the judges and eliminate the competition. Is that what our members want? I don't think so. And while you are contemplating these thoughts, I will return to the barn to work on one of my orphans and think about the showfield of the future where all vehicles will be trailered behind hydrogen powered trucks and pushed onto the showfield because gas will be $100 per gallon. Or maybe as our friend in Wyoming has hypothesized, we all will just send a digitized analysis of the car and let the host's computer do the judging. Virtual awards will be sent via email in a holographic format for display.

While on the subject of plugs, I have a question. What shortcuts, if any, are acceptable? Obviously the plug has to fit the hole, but the original make and model of the plug for some cars may not be known. If a cad plug fits and works, can an owner "doctor" the plug with a kit that blackens the plating? If the owner uses a magic marker to make the cad look black, is that acceptable?

Hobbes, Need help with your Marmon? You've made a good initial contact. I am the editor of The Marmon News, the newsletter for the Marmon Club. We have tech advisors who can help with any year and model and genuine enthusiastically Marmon fanatics (I own five myself) who will be very willing to support your efforts. And we have the Annual Marmon Muster coming up in June at Auburn, Indiana. Let me know more about your Marmon and if I can't help you, I'll get you in contact with someone who will. Can you email some digital photos? Ron Barnett

Brian, While attending the flea market in Chicksha, OK, we visited a vehicle collection owned by a man in Oklahoma City. He had two PA MCs. I'll try to find his address tomorrow. Also you should check with the Barber Motorsports Museum, Birmingham, AL. They have over 800 motorcycles on display, including a PA and I understand that they have a lot more bits and pieces in their shop and storage.

The Kwik-Poly discussion has come up several times on this DF. The following response was posted that last time I recall somebody talking about the demise of this product: Correction! Despite what you may have heard, Kwik Poly (the same original product) is still doing business as Kwik Poly LLC. The web address is kwikpolyllc.com. Please contact me if you need info or the Kwik Poly product at: 4123 Chartley Drive Bridgeton, MO 63044 (314) 344-8881 dale@kwikpolyllc.com

John, I sent you an email with a possible solution to your request. Let me know if you need more info.

When VMCCA sponsors the tour there is no $5.00 reguest for packet charge. Several years ago the AACA Board eliminated the fee for the Glidden. However I noticed that this year the Glidden was lumped in with the other tours requiring the fee. This needs to be reviewed by someone. The hosts for this years Glidden have been personally distributing info for requesting info and responding directly to those individuals. Am not sure if they are assigning spaces based on these requests. There used to be a procedure that all info packets were mailed to requestors on a given date and the application had to be received on or after a specified date. Early applications were returned as not acceptable. If the tour is already filling up and the packets have not been sent, then this procedure must have been abandoned.

Must be a Marmon thing - Years ago at Hershey I saw a 1920(?) vintage Marmon with a sign that said, "I'm old and I like people, Please Touch Me". People would walk up to the car and gently touch it. Sally and I both have Marmons with rumbleseats. If you see us on a tour or meet and want to ride that RS, just tell us and we'll give you the chance.

1937-44 and DLong, I now have two sets of instructions and thanks to Kisselman for an alternative approach. But spetial thanks to 1937-44 I have the actual tool in hand. I intentionally did not mention which car I needed the tool for because when I mention Marmon, most readers go blank. The tool that was sent is the one of the four sizes (depending of the diameter of the rotor shaft) which is exactly the one for Sally's 1927 Little Marmon. Am leaving for the tour in Houma, LA, but when I return will take a photo to post here and let you know about what I will be able to do to replicate the tool for other needy DFers. Wow! This DF is an awesome tool for our hobbiests.

Howard, No it's the one I stole in Oklahoma from a guy named Binger. And I assure you all that Piston Collector did not turn down the first scotch and water, or the second, or the (well you get the picture) and then he took the Chalmers away. Easy come, easy go!

Darn, I used to have one just like that in my trailer, but somebody took it away after I offered them a scotch and water. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Dennis, How about snailmailing a copy to Ron Barnett, 137 Valley View Drive, Union Grove, AL 35175. 1937-44 emailed and said he would send me his tool for get all appropriate measurements to make a replica. The instructions should help also. Thanks.

1937-44, Haven't heard from you. Would like to see the tool. Please email me. Ron

1937-44, I would very much like to borrow or buy the tool to make a replica. At Chickasha I found a Delco catalog which shows the tool was produced in seven different configurations to fit varied applications. It appears that the only difference was the mounting design. I can adjust that for my requirement. Very much appreciate your alternative tool. Very clever. Please contact me via email at ronbarn@otelco.net Thanks for the other suggestions. I knew there must be alternatives, but I just think it would be so cool to be able to use a tool like the one described in the owners manual. Thus my quest.

The Model L Marmon indeed used an updraft carb with vacuum tank pump. The intake manifold did indeed route the flow of the fuel mixture to a position above the cylinder intakes, but that was Marmon's method to make the distance of fuel flow equal for each cylinder, thus assuring that all cylinders had equal fuel allocation.

Back in the '20s and '30s a lot of straight eight cars used a Delco ignition system which had a four lobe cam and two sets of points in the distributor. For proper operation the two sets of points had to be "synchronized" to open exactly 90 degrees apart. Delco made a special indicator tool for this adjustment. Actually, they made several tools for different systems, but they all used the same principle. Does anyone out there have one of these tools? I would like to find one to either buy or borrow to replicate one for my car.

Grainger also has them. McMaster and Grainger both have on-line catalogs. For older (and I mean much older than 30 years), the natural finish of the cast part is normally correct. Polished aluminum looks "neater" but is generally not needed.

Darned short sighted - tour people are not necessarily the same as meet prople. Would it then be appropriate to expand the horiszons to tour as well as meets?

It is a grand idea. Back in the early days of AACA there were group tours to England and Europe by AACA members. More recently my wife and I have made two visits to car friends in England. We observed the London to Brighton Run with them in 2004. They have also visited car friends in the states. This only proves that an informal exchange does work. Can a formal system for exchanges be established? That is the critical question!

Just sent a couple from my Marmon. They may take a while to download. Ron

Amen!!

Bruce, I'll forgive for this trip. Know the drill about teaming so Di deserves the credit you gave.