Buffalowed Bill

IMHO it comes down to how an owner feels about his car and how he wants to use it. Does a guy want to drive his car or show it? Is he comfortable taking it to a cruse night in the condition it's in? Only the owner can answer those questions. Decades ago I was faced with the dilemma of what to do with some of my cars, and punted and became a car collector. In my world there are show cars and driver cars. I try never to mix up my drivers and my show cars. Once someone looses sight of what the car was intended for, drives his show car, and tries to show his drivers he completely looses the comfort zone that he has developed for himself. After driving his show car (touring with it) it will never be a competitive show car again. Unless of course the owner has the unlimited resources of a Nethercutt or Leno. The monied people have the ability to go out on tour and then put hundreds of hours into detailing. I tried to drive a car that I had just restored, 180 miles, one way, to a concours and then show it. It worked sort of, I was awarded a second place after doing about 12 hours of detailing before putting it out on the show field- never again. I don't have that kind of resources and I'm too old to do much of the work myself. As for showing a driver car-I feel it's usually a dead end. Unless the car is a documented all original, a driver car is seldom going to be competitive when critical judging is the format. Back in the 90's, the last of the golden age of the car hobby, the choices were simpler. Restoration costs were reasonable (more reasonable then today) and cars were appreciating rapidly in value. The mindset was that everything had to be restored. There were three kinds of cars-restored cars, cars waiting their turn to be restored, and parts cars. In those days the little guy could rationalize doing the restoration on a car because the hope was that the car would be worth more. Today it's a crap shoot. I've never worried too much about cost. If I could afford to buy a car, or upgrade one I would do it if not.....IMO today my moto if in doubt leave it alone. Any work done needs to be a no-doubter.

I've told my story before, but people keep asking. The story doesn't change so... In 1996 when the 46lb. Interstate bat. In my 1931 Studebaker failed when I was taking it to a show. Out of desperation I replace it with a 16lb. Optima that I had just purchased. It did a better job then the Interstate have ever done starting and holding a charge. Fast forward I was readying the car for an indefinite stay at the America's Car Museum. The 22yo. bat. was a little logy so I swapped in another Optima which worked just fine. I then realize that I had just swapped in a 16yo bat. for a 22yo bat. But the older bat. was still not dead, I used it in one of my Champions for another 2 years. So I'll go with 24yrs. I'm sure some will have even better outcome then I had.

Thanks so much for posting. It's been some time since I was last there. I considered making the trek, one last time. Then I looked at the weather forecast then looked outside and remembered what it could be like I said no thanks! I miss the adventure and seeing old friends, but there are limits to what I want to put this old body through. The reginal Pierce Arrow Society used to get together at George Choban's Greek restaurant on Saturday evening during the swap. When the club chose not to continue with the dinner some of the weekend's charm disappeared. I last saw George at Forest Grove Concours just before the pandemic. What a fine gentleman, who had some great cars. Sadly I just googled George and found that he had passed away in 2022. Thanks again!

I can't believe that anyone could be so stupid. My only fear is that when the crook figures out what a mistake he made, that he might try to destroy the evidence.

Bill, I judge at quite a few concours and have never known a single one to give out results. In fact, many (most in yeas past until this newish ICJAG judging was introduced) concours simply judge using French Rules which eliminates a score sheet. Steve your experience does not comport with mine. I have no reason to refute what you say. However, I have always been able to get my judging sheet upon request. Except when "French Judging" has been the standard. I know that early on I was told that it was not the usual procedure, but I was able to get the results nonetheless. Admittedly at events at which I have been a judge I have never been in a position where I was responsible for returning judging information to the owners. I just presumed that it would be made available upon request. Looking back at it my own experience I didn't think that I was afforded any special favors. But that was more then 30 years ago. As I reflect back on the car's quick assentation. I wonder if the car was on someone's fast track. Did some person or group want the car to succeed? Were some strings being pulled? Heaven only knows that once the process began I was being dragged along with the car. For me this thread has served to create more unanswered questions, then answer any. I'm old so don't shoot the messenger! Ed makes a point that an owner should know his car better then any judge, to which I agree. However that is not always the case. An owner needs to know what things he needs to improve upon to take his car to the next level. Judging is not a continuous process. I think that it needs to be a cooperative effort between the owners and the judges, the result of which is the car's eventual improvement. I don't see how leaving an owner in the dark, without constructive criticism, serves that goal.

Not to beat that dead horse more then I already have, but he won't mind. The cars sure sounded similar. Here's the link to the whole conversation in case you might find it interesting. https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/sale-want-found-cars/1982907-hoping-somebody-will-save-this-one-196

Just stumbled on your thread. It looks so similar to one that I just responded to on the SDC forum, that I can't help but think that it is the same car and maybe you are the guy initiating that thread. Anyway this was my longwinded response to that thread. I've told this story before so please excuse me if it seems like I'm beating a dead horse, which I am, sorta! The year that I got Humphry(2008) Mary and I flew back to Lancaster Pa. for the International Studebaker meet. I knew that Humphrey was all original but I wanted to check out some other 1960 wagons, just to see how universal a few manufacturing glitches that I had discovered, might have been. What better place to see a bunch of Larks, to say nothing about Lark wagons?Was I in for a surprise! After roaming the parking lot for most of a week I found nary a first generation Lark wagon. I thought that certainly the show field would have what I was looking for. On the day of the show I waded through a seemingly endless number of Hawks and Avantis, but unless I missed one, there was not a single first generation Lark wagon on the field that day or at that meet. The only 1960 Lark on the field that day was a beautifully restored 6 cyl four door. There was however a young swap meet seller who had driven over from South Bend in a very rusty 1960 four door.In the ensuing years we have gone to five more Internationals. The scenario was similar. The farther west the meet, the more Lark wagons seemed to be present, but they were few and far between.So when I see a survivor that is in jeopardy, I have taken it upon myself to tell Humphrey's story and how it became a game changer for me. Your audience is going to be different that any that you may have ever played to in the past, but I can guarantee that you will be surprised and gratified by what you will experience.Someone step up and save this car!

Certainly nice to see some love for an era of cars for which there has been little given. Congratulations! I chased after similar Imperial several years ago, but I was never able to make contact with the elderly owner. I later discovered that a friend of mine had purchased it from a flipper, who had gotten it for a pittance, from the old man's estate. I later checked with my friend to see if he would consider selling it and he had already resold it.

Shoot me an email with some specific information regarding the shop and it's location. If it's in my purview and time permits I might be able to check on your radiator shell. 31redrooster@comcast.net

I admit that I have never really been part of an AACA judged event. However I've had cars judged and acted as a judge on a fair number of concourse events. Frankly I was surprised to see that receiving a copy of the judging sheet had not been a part of the process.

Some cars flat tow better then others. There was always a caution against towing a post-war Studebaker. I tried it once 45 years ago, never again. Until I tied off the steering wheel, the front wheels would go from one lock position to the other with little provocation. Even with the steering tied off it was no walk in the park. Because the wheels did not track behind the tow vehicle, the front wheels would scuff going around corners. I think that you could make it work if you had someone in the drivers' seat to steer. There are better ways to do the job. If it were me I would call for a wrecker with a tilt bed. Good luck!

Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed seeing the diversity.

Harry Hartz in a Miller.

It's the same Harry Hartz in a later car. My guess is that this car is Studebaker straight eight powered.

By way of an advisory-depending how long it has been since removed these might be difficult to remove. The longer they have been on without removal, and how the car has been used and stored, can make them difficult to get off. Make sure that the end of your axil is protected. Some of us use the big nut on the end of the axil turned over, screwed on as protection. I like to use a heavy washer over the nut for additional protection. If you have resorted to the heaviest hammer that you have and it still will not budge, just walk away from it with tension still applied. Come back every so often and give it a couple more whacks and walk away. It may take a week or more, but it will almost certainly give up to the increased tension. It will usually give it up with a loud pop or a bang. Good luck! I forgot to mention greasing the threads puller's threads can help with the process. I discover this over 45 years ago. But don't grease the axil shaft when you put the drum back on!

The style looks correct for the FS. I measured mine and the handle part is 4" long. The right side would have been drilled for a lock set.

This photo showed up on the "What Is It," section of the forum. I answered that it was probably Harry Hartz and that the car was probably a Studebaker. What say you?

My guess is that the driver is Harry Hartz. He worked for Studebaker, it looks like him and it would have been in a time frame that Studebaker was showing itself to be more then competitive on tracks and hill climbs. If this is a Studebaker it could have been a straight 8, but it would have been very early, since the Studebaker 8 came out in 1928. It just as likely could have been the 354cu" Big Six. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Hartz#:~:text=Harry Hartz (24 December 1896

What a great looking car-no wonder it considered to be a Classic!

OK here's your chance. Location in Canada my be a bit of a problem. https://vancouver.craigslist.org/nvn/cto/d/north-vancouver-1962-valiant/7585173641.html

I've seen some freakishly high hour restorations completed in India. The cars are not necessarily high valued models, at least over here. I suspect that it's a combination of inexpensive labor and the limits to the availability of unusual cars. Someone mentioned Cuba, and I can see the similarity.

I love seeing a survivor especially one not often seen. At a car show or a cruise night I get a bit bored looking at the same thing all the time. I sat here trying to remember the last time I saw a 62 Valiant. It's either my memory going, and that's a given, or it's been so long that I can't remember the last one I saw.☺️

I like most cars. It's hard for me to say that I hate anything. I do wonder how many guys who say that they hate a particular car have ever owned or even driven a car like it? I know that I will never own a car that would require me to have a camera to see what's behind me. But I understand why it is necessary for safety reasons. Too bad that it has come to that.

Push start feature on an automatic transmission.

One of my favorite pastimes used to be car watching as I was dining at one of our favorite restaurants in the Seattle area. It is on a busy arterial between a low income area and a slightly higher, low income area. To understand why car watching was so good at that particular spot it's important to note how transport in our area can be different. Our cars just don't deteriorate as fast as they do most places. When I occasionally mention this, I'm not just bragging, I'm just trying to explain why there were so many 30-50yo cars on the road here. What today's generation consider junk, low income folks see as affordable transportation. Several years ago I began to see a change. Where did the car show go? The area hadn't changed that much so what had happened. After giving it some thought, I realized that nothing had changed, but the cars that the low income people were driving. The 25-40yo cars were still being driven by some of the same people, but I just didn't recognize the cars. The 1950-90's cars had slowly been supplanted by a whole new generation of cars most of which I find boring.