1912Staver

Many thanks on the heads up on the Staver emblem " Money Pit ". There was a time when I did a Ebay search weekly for " Staver " but these days I am probably down to every two weeks. At one time, every couple of months something of interest would come up on the Bay. But the last couple of years pickings have really tapered off. Example .. for a number of years about once a year or so there would be a sales brochure , parts book, Company issued advertising poster or leaflet { as opposed to something removed from the pages of a periodical } listed on ebay. It's been a good 4 or 5 years since that happened. It begs the question why ? I doubt all that many people apart from the handful of actual car owners are interested . There is a definite chance that without your timely message I could have missed it altogether. At least I now know what the market will bear, even if I can't afford it. All this state of the market information provokes a question . How many were bidding on items in this auction that they don't have a corresponding vehicle for ? Even if the emblem or mascot would be a spare ? In other words the item would be treated as a collectable in itself. And how many were looking to buy something that is a part for a vehicle or project they actually own ? I am just curious about how big a segment of the hobby the separate collection of emblem's , mascot's , hubcap's , Etc. is compared to the vehicles themselves. Greg in Canada How

I bid what I thought was a very respectable bid on the Staver Chicago emblem. But I fell quite a bit short. It would be nice to think it is going on a car rather than a shelf but somehow I doubt it. As far as I know only 2 of the 5 known survivors need a badge. But there are many badge shelves that don't have one. Greg in Canada

I absolutely want them to stay nearby. I almost never sold unless I really needed the money. Usually for more school or something like buying a house. Once those situations cleared up I nearly always wanted a chance to buy back. Never seems to happen however. People have a habit of dumping huge sums into the cars I sell on frills. { cosmetics } And then want at least 75% of the investment back. Puts the car out of my price range. I only want and am prepared to pay for "driver "class cosmetics. As long as all is tickety boo under the skin, I am happy with scruffy. I like to drive my cars, and I have no time for trailer queens. Greg in Canada

I have been on the other side of this one. Quite a few years ago I had a heavy patina MGA that was my 8 months a year daily driver. When I bought it I gave it a mechanical go through and just oiled the latches and hinges, made sure everything on the dash worked etc. But it was somewhat down at the heels , body , paint , interior even then. Then I drove it for the next 15 years , doing any necessary mechanical upkeep, but not touching the visuals. I have always stored it during salt season so not that rusty { as MGA's go}. A fellow who owned a business in the same complex as where I worked wanted it. Eventually offered at least twice what it was realistically worth but I always said no. My reasoning was that if I sold I would then have to find another one that was a decent car but at a price I could afford. Not such an easy task by then { mid 1990's } . Nice restored cars were definitely available but far more than I could spend, and lots of quite rusty ones in my general price range. But very few budget priced , sound from a rust point of view ones available in my part of the world. I did not at that time have anywhere the resources needed to source one from the American South West. I advised the would be buyer to look around and buy a more expensive ; he could afford it, " better "car. Eventually he did. And all these later I still have mine, 1978 - present. Still a bit of a beater , but definitely part of the family. It's been in storage for the last decade but will definitely see the road again under my ownership, baring an asteroid strike. Greg in Canada

Super engines, and that looks like a reasonable price. Unfortunately I expect only a handful of us on this forum even know what it is . Still you only need one serious buyer. And a few of us are involved in historic racing or at least have an interest in it. I expect you already know about the " Apexspeed " site, but if not that would reach a far larger BDA interested group. I own a couple of cars your engine would be right at home in, but the costs of running a Cosworth are beyond me. My cars only have MK 9's, the upgrade to a FT would bankrupt me. Greg in Canada......1972 FB, 1978 S2000

They always have a market. At the very least the cab on the bigger trucks ; 1 ton , 1 1/2 ton, is usually the same as a pick up cab. I usually see them sell in the $750.00 - $1500.00 range . Very simple mechanics. Generally not hard to get running. Greg in Canada

This thread is about pre - war parts. And the general consensus.... there are masses of pre - war parts out there is really only partially true in my experience. 1939 back to about 1925 and yes , there are literally tons and tons of parts. But mid 20's back to 1916 ; nickel era stuff , sees a sharp falling off. Then a further plunge once you enter the brass era. You would almost expect to see a proportional decline, twice as old - 1/2 the volume but experience tells me this is not true. Definitely less than 10% { more like 2% - 5 % } of the volume of 1930 "s parts I see are brass era. Both the depression and WW2 must have seen a huge quantity of Brass era cars and parts scrapped. NOTE !! I am excluding Model T Ford parts in these generalisations, still lots of 1916 -25 T stuff around. T's are almost a separate hobby in themselves. The " Museum Parts Collection " photo's I have seen so far look to be heavily weighted toward 1925 and newer. I think the same will apply to nearly every similar parts treasure trove still to be uncovered. The really sad thing in my opinion is that when similar troves fall into the hands of non - car family members they will have no idea how rare the early stuff is. After all for the most part old car parts all look about the same. And early stuff is just as likely to end up in the scrap bin as 38 Plymouth sedan parts. No offense to those of you who treasure your late 1930's Plymouths. Greg in Canada

I would have to see Ron's car in person before I reached any definite conclusion. It's quite possibly the only Gold Bug left that is not either a pile of parts , semi complete , basket case or a fully restored car. Are you familiar with the chasing classic cars Stutz ? If it was any better than Ron's car I have a feeling it wasn't by much. Not all survivors need to be 40,000 original mile , original paint, near mint, garage kept since day 1 cars. I know there is many different ways to live this hobby. But nothing in Ron's pictures jumps out at me as too far gone to preserve. If a person want's a restored Gold Bug there is probably a restored example for sale every 10 years or so. Ron's car might be the only one left that could conceivably be a preservation car. Once it is restored it is { no disrespect Ron, I am in awe of your restoration of the 1918 Sedanette. A car that absolutely needed restoration if it was to survive at all } " just " another restored Gold Bug. At select events it will could be in a line up with 4 , 5 or even 6 other restored Gold Bug's. Just my opinion; Canadian, so that is not even 2 cent's worth these days. Greg

Too bad they were so ham fisted with the engine conversion. I agree that getting that sorted out has to be number 1. Greg

Healey's have great parts availability , but in my experience quality is all over the map. Even worse at times with MGA's. Some parts are first class , equal to O.E.M. quality . But a lot of the body parts especially leave much to be desired. Greg in Canada

I have a Rickenbacker aluminum hubcap. Probably one of the few parts that turn up from time to time. Need it ? Greg in Canada

Hi Ron, I am curious on how the frame on the unrestored Gold Bug was cut ? Perhaps not good enough for a concours restoration like you specialise in but still salvageable ? I know it's not your point of view but roughish "preserved" cars are of significant interest to many. Just look at the case of the " Chasing Classic Cars " Stutz Bearcat. I think many people can relate more to a cleaned up ; made drivable, example of very desirable vintage cars than 98 point restorations. The condition you found the Gold bug in is also part of its history. You have almost enough parts for two cars, someone should have that in mind rather than one really nice car plus an even bigger stack of Kissel parts on your already overflowing shelving. Have you noticed the pre war parts supply thread. In the long run many loose parts collection end up getting scrapped. Greg in Canada

Yes indeed ! Type E and OE Vauxhalls along with any pre RR Bentleys can be and are restored from the most fragmentary remains.. Vauxhalls have a definite resonance with me. Way back when my wife and I had just purchased our first house a Vauxhall project came on the local market. Said to be a OE 30 - 98 , although I must admit at the time I didn't know enough about them to tell a 30 - 98 from a 23 - 60. The OE part was obvious enough. With a substantial mortgage just undertaken the Vauxhall was of course impossible. The project was sold back to England and within a few years returned to drivable condition. Vauxhall encounter #2 was a few years ago. A local vintage car guru was selling a Vauxhall OE 23 - 60 on behalf of a local owner { car came from Australia as an inheritance } . It had been restored a couple of decades previously in the style of a 30 - 98 , with a shortened WB to match . It was still in very nice condition however the engine needed fairly major attention. Once again finances were a obstacle I could not overcome. The price was actually very reasonable , but still enough that I could not manage it. As is usually the case it too was sold back to the U.K. I doubt I will ever get a third chance. A few photo's of the second one. It was for sale here on the forum in I think 2016. As you can probably tell it still haunts me. Greg in Canada

Unless there is something very unusual about 1977 Plymouth wheels, I can't see why they would be difficult to find. They are probably the same wheel as on several Chrysler Corp. products, and were probably used for several years. There are most likely hundreds of thousands of them out there. You need to do a bit of research with a Hollanders interchange manual and see exactly which wheels will work. Buying brand new, aftermarket steel wheels would be my last resort. Greg in Canada

I have both Staver Chicago cuff links and a Staver Chicago watch fob. All original . No one would ever make reproductions from a company almost no one has ever heard of, at least not since the horse drawn days. Buggy's and carriages were their main product, automobiles a definite after thought. I have not seen another pair of the cuff links. But the watch fobs turn up from time to time, and generally not all that expensive. I think I paid about $20 or $25 for mine. It's hard to see in the photo but the fob has a makers name, F H NOBLE &CO CHICAGO at the bottom of the rear side. I am not sure where the cuff links are at the moment. Greg in Canada

It is the same thing but the metric version is an awkward conversion from the original size. From an engineering point of view no one would have ever decided to produce a 114.3 mm P.C.D.. They chose 4 .5 inches and that is the dimension that would have appeared on the blue print. Why call it anything else ? Being Canadian I run into this sort of measurement " rewriting of history " all the time. We officially became a metric country way back in the 1970's. But so many products sold in Canada are either American produced or also sold in the American market. So the product is sized in a way that reflects it's Imperial measurement design and manufacture. But for the Canadian market it is labeled or designated in some metric equivalent . Like 114.3 mm instead of 4.5 inches. Have you ever tried to measure .3 of a mm without a micrometer ? Why use such awkward sizes for things that make perfect sense in their original notation and little sense as a metric equivalent ? Greg in Canada

I am curious why you are listing the bolt pattern as 5 x 114.3 mm ? I know some on line interchange sites use metric designations but up until the last 5 years or so no one would have called this anything other than 5 x 4.5 inches. You don't care about interchange I would expect. You just want a set of O.E.M. Plymouth wheels. Anyone in a position to supply you with these wheels is almost certainly going to refer to them by their imperial { inch ) size. They were not designed or manufactured in a metric world. Why cloud the issue ? Does your car still have a spare tire ? If so have a good look at it. As long as it is not a space saver that is probably the wheel you want 4 more of. Take the tire off and look at all the stamped identification marks. There is probably the name of the actual wheel manufacturer as well as the size. There will also be things like inspection marks and a production date, which for your purpose don't matter. Greg in Canada

There are many cars that even if a shell are still going to be restored as long as they still have their I.D. plates and stamped numbers. Any Shelby Mustang for example. All necessary parts are available for restoration of the worst possible example, buy a decent regular mustang for the first 75% of what's needed and buy reproduction parts for everything else. A C.O.P.O. 1969 Camaro would be another one , and so on in the muscle car era. Pre war I am sure very few C.C.C.A. roadsters would ever become parts car's although Ed may be in a position to tell us differently. And Pre war Bugatti's and Alfa's get reborn seemingly from a serial plate and dust. Same with later 1950's early 1960's racing Sports cars like Lotus 11's and 23's. A few crumpled bits of frame tubing , a serial tag , and scraps of ownership history invariably equals a ready to run car in 4 or 5 years. Greg in Canada

Hi Carl, I understand not all of us have the same level of health and previous { or future } injury's are a potential game changer for many aspects of motor vehicle use. I have a example of that with my wife. In days gone by she owned a Toyota SR5 and was very happy with it, then took over one of my MGA's for close to a year, enjoying every minute behind the wheel. These days she is living with substantial arthritis pain in her knee and will only drive my 5 speed car as a last resort. And I doubt she could even get into a MGA anymore without significant pain. I am so far very lucky. Hopefully I have inherited my late fathers genes. He was still involved with competitive sports right up to his last couple of months at age 84. But I know it is just a matter of blind luck. Life does not deal all of a good hand. We need to adapt as circumstances dictate. Enjoy the drive in your 24 !!

The problem of loose parts and clutter are why I always try to keep the whole car right up to the end. It's a better method than what most people do as long as you have space and don't run come to the attention of local authority's. Stripping a car and storing parts ensures that eventually most of those same parts some day end in scrap , and you probably store, trip over and move them for a decade or more thinking they are of value. If you keep a parts car reasonably intact a potential buyer can see right away if you have the part and what condition it is in. Every once and a while someone might even want to buy the whole thing. Sell parts off it for 1, 2, 3 years or whatever is your preference than scrap what's left. It's worked for me for years. Greg in Canada

I may mellow with age, but up to present ; 46 year's of driving I have almost never bought an automatic out of choice. And the two that I did , 1969 GS 400 and 1969 Cyclone CJ had 4 speed conversion parts arriving within a week of purchase . They were hard enough to find as it was, if I had of held out for 4 speed versions chances are I would have never found one, especially in the pre internet day's when I bought them. A few auto's slipped in when I was a young student. Hand me down's from family members at vehicle replacement time. Of all the changes made to this Dodge only the 700 R4 really rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps my tune will change once I hit the big 70 . Greg in Canada

Sorry, I forgot about the DeLorean version. They are rear engine so they must either flip the entire transaxle or have a different ring and pinion from the mid engine versions. Not a lot of DeLorean parts cars at my local pick a part , so I guess it doesn't matter that much. The motor home I was completely unaware of. Are Vixen's reasonably popular ? I had a gray market BMW 524 TD several years ago. Very nice engine if a bit underpowered . It must of been quite underwhelming in even a small motorhome. The car was a great highway machine until one day the dual mass flywheel self dismantled. Greg

I like it too, on the outside. Lots more changed than just the engine . Entire dash, steering wheel, 700 R4 trans, S 10 rear end. Flaming River steering box. And who knows what else. Well beyond what I call sensible mods for a regularly used car. The disks can stay , and no harm in a dual circuit master , but Corvette booster ? Really a very stock appearing Resto - Rod. Nice enough if that's your thing. Greg in Canada

Actually of those last 2 cars I bought the first one turned out to be one I should not have bought. But after 3 + years of looking I was beginning to think I was never going to find one. Definitely a compromise compared to what I wanted. Then 6 months later out of the blue the second one turned up . Totally right car, reasonable price, reasonable distance. So now I own them both. The first one needs to be sold. But it's more of a project than I anticipated so until I can tidy up some of the worst aspects and find a new owner I have them both. It has definite merit, just not to me. Live and learn. Greg

Ed , I totally get every nuance of what you are saying. My local market has 95 % very ordinary cars at what I consider poor value for the money prices. The other 5 % are more interesting cars at extremely poor value for the money. And quite a few do sell. The last 2 cars I bought came from the U.S, even with all the extra costs things worked in my favor. Mostly because I just could not find cars like the ones I bought in Canada. I am always looking as I still want to own a usable vintage car rather than my current project status cars. But I don't even see 5 cars a year that I would take a second glance at let alone 5 cars a month. I am patient, the right car will come along. Before I buy a vintage car I need to build a new garage as I am out of space. And I need to get my fill of sports car racing before I am too old. Only so many hours in the day. Greg