1912Staver

It's great to hear the story's of the lucky few that have survived. And yes there were some cars that still had some life left as starting points for updating or down classing. Eg. old Indy cars modified and then used as dirt trackers. But I still subscribe to the theory that the biggest factor in why so few larger Brass Era cars survive ; racers and standard spec. cars alike, is the tire size restrictions enacted for WW1. The cars were already obsolete, but then the death blow against their survival came when the majority of tires they used were not allowed to be made anymore. That must have made up the minds of thousands of owners who were sitting on the fence about weather to keep or scrap the old relic in the shed. Can't buy parts, can't buy tires, and it's absurdly obsolete. Just put the money into a Marmon 32, Stutz KLDH, L head Mercer or similar "modern " practical car that you can actually drive and maintain. It's no wonder that far sighted individuals like Waterman were seen as " eccentrics ". Greg in Canada

The reality with race cars is that they become obsolete quickly. Particularly race cars that are not modified production cars. Parts rapidly become completely unavailable . And even if you could keep it running what would a person do with a 5 year old race car? No such thing as vintage racing up until the late 1970's. A handful survived, and a further handful have been recreated either from a few fragments of a completely new construction. But 95% of them were crashed , engines blown up and never rebuilt, used up as spares, left derelict and ultimately scrapped, you name it. It is really only in the later 1970's and later that anything other than a few very significant early race cars were sought after. Once they were obsolete as a competitive race car they were just so much metal. And most ended up back in the furnace. It happens to this day. The real danger zone is when they are 5 - 20 years old. Non - competitive for what they were built for, and as likely to get parted out as to survive intact. Entry level class cars survive better, say Formula Ford. Because technology does not progress as quickly in the lower class ranks. And there are always new drivers wanting to get their feet wet in an older / cheaper car. But mid rank classes and higher the tech moves very quickly and the costs are very high even for an older car. If you can afford racing at this level it only makes sense to use as up to date a car as possible. So a 5 year old car is a totally lost cause. Things were not any different 100 years ago. Salvage what you can from the 2 years ago car and put the money into this years car. Greg in Canada

I remember that sort of thing, although in my case it was about 1978. Working as a helper in a heavy equipment shop. Big shop building with 4 rows of fluorescent light fixtures, and at least 1/4 of the tubes out. The mechanics were tired of poor lighting and complained to the shop supervisor ; the owners son, generally a pretty good guy. His method was to bring one of the cranes into the shop and position the boom near the fixture. It was a good sized crane so the boom was at a reasonably low angle. But the lights in the middle were a good 30 feet up. I then had to climb up the boom with a light duty rope. new tubes were tied to the rope with a chunk of rubber cord and I pulled them up , changed the tubes, and lowered down the burnt out ones. Then climb down , re position the crane and repeat. Took a few hours but we changed them all except a couple with bad ballasts. I was a bit nervous at first but after a few I got used to the height. Lots of climbing that day. I sure wouldn't want to do it these days In 1972 I was still in grade 9. One of these were my wheels . Bike boom Peugeot , my first " racing " bike. That is just a photo off the net, mine was a nice bronze color. After high school I got a lot more into bicycles and owned a few much better than the "gas pipe " Peugeot. Although I was very into cars and had a junker Nash Metropolitan to learn from. Replaced by a Sunbeam Alpine in grade 11, my first driving car. Greg in Canada

I am curious if Opel tried to sell cars in the North American market in the early teens. Or were the race car efforts not tied to a larger marketing program for regular production cars. I almost never hear of a brass era Opel in North America. Mercedes and Renault both tried the North American market and had some degree of success. And their race cars were well regarded in North American racing. I am probably wrong but most Opel production cars seem to be relatively small cars. A market that was quite crowded with domestic makes. Greg

It's definitely a coil. Delco made many of this general type in the late teens / early 1920's. Then somewhere in the mid 20's the " normal " cylindrical style took over. This one may not necessarily be as old as the 1920's. Mallory liked that design and produced a much more modern version from somewhere in the 1950's all the way up very recent times. Your coil may be the early version of Mallory's coil , possibly 1930's - 1940's . Or it may be a replacement for the teen's Delco. Anyone have a collection of Mallory catalogs ? Greg in Canada

I replaced quite a few 510 head gaskets. And at least a couple of warped heads . The SOHC made cam tower alignment fairly critical. Shims were available but could only correct a relatively small amount of warp. But generally quite a decent car. Big sellers, but rust was a killer. Greg in Canada

I am thinking the race car in the window is a Cole 30. The other photo shows 3 signs that all are concerned with the Cole 30's racing and endurance achievements. One of the signs even states that this car was driven by Bill Endicott in a championship of some sort { very hard to read due to the reflections }. This would seem to indicate it is a Cole. Greg

The archive lists it as a Correja, one I have not heard of. Even more obscure than Staver Chicago perhaps ?

Here is one I discovered today in the Detroit public library archive. It was a by product of the one eyed Garford thread. But being a race car photo it should get a wider audience here. Staver Chicago 30 race car in the background. An amazing change in 60 years from cars like these below, to Uncle Buck's 1972 Indy car above ! Greg in Canada

A double thanks for the link ! I have in the past looked in that archive for Staver Chicago photos . There were some there but not very good quality. However I was just very pleasantly surprised to see they have added a race car photo since I was last there with a very nice photo I have not seen before with a Staver race car in the background. What is the car in the foreground ? Pierce Racine ? The emblem is of a familiar shape. Greg in Canada Greg in Canada

That's a great looking Speedster / racer. Too bad it is inside the building with lots of window reflection. A factory racer ? Any other known photo's with a clearer image ? I just followed your link and answered my own question. Lots of great Cole images. Thanks ! Greg in Canada

Hi Mike, I retired a year ago. But my Packard is dormant. I guess all the Pierce's I have seen were the earlier ones. Very unfortunate about your lost in transit wheels and parts. Mostly staying at home. The virus has my Wife very concerned as she has a moderate immune disorder. British Columbia is still faring well compared to many places , but that could change any time. She still has to go to work at our local hospital, but her manager has allowed her to work from her office as much as she possibly can. Hope you are keeping well ! Greg

I am always amazed when I hear that a reasonably well known Brass Era car like the Garford has a solitary survivor . Any idea of how many Studebaker Garfords additionally exist ? The depression must have been catastrophic for the scrapping of higher quality cars . Millions of desperate people looking to bring in whatever cash necessary to survive. Long obsolete cars with a fair amount of brass and aluminum would have been ripe targets. Greg in Canada

To better days in the near future. Greg

Very interesting wheels. I have not seen that style before. I have only seen a couple of Pierce trucks and they had wood spoke wheels. Are those steel wheels a factory option ? Any progress on your Packard ? Greg

I agree about the price. Rally driving is hugely popular outside of North America. One of the most demanding forms of motorsport out there. And Lancia's program is second to none. The top rally drivers have incredible skill. Greg in Canada

They are a homologation special in Lancia's rally program. A very special car built in very small numbers. About 480 HP from a 1.8 Litre engine. The mid 1980's successor to the Stratos. The bees knees to a rally person. Personally I like the Stratos better but I bet the Delta can run rings around one with the right driver. Greg in Canada

I was very happy when I finally found a Gibson LP Studio for an affordable price. Not vintage , but a 1989 which is a decent year for the post vintage Gibson's. It took many months of watching ebad. I finally found a auction that had a seller with only 2 or 3 feedbacks and poor description / photo's . Took a chance, put in a low ball bid and I am very happy. I probably paid 1/2 or less of what was the going rate at the time {2015}. Even with the current market it is worth at least a couple hundred more than I paid, and I thoroughly enjoy it. Mostly play my " partscaster "; 91 Fender USA neck , aftermarket ash body , " noiseless " single coil PU's, these days , but the LP comes out at least 3 or 4 times each month. Greg

My first step would be to very thoroughly clean and inspect the entire outside of the unit. There is bound to be some sort of I.D. or manufacturer stamping on it somewhere. It might be a good idea to carefully remove the unit for closer examination , but it can also be done in place. Once you have a general Idea of what it is you can try to pin down an exact I.D. Greg in Canada

Ed Minnie suggests in the comments section of the OLD MOTOR article that a long hidden one does exist. As we all know on this forum, if anyone has the inside story on a rare pre - war car chances are it is Ed. Any further information ? Also a small number of ReVere cars that the Richelieu was based on do exist. Greg in Canada

Mostly a bunch of projects. A series of bad decisions. They were to be sold to help out with the trio of keepers but that is looking increasingly unrealistic. The keepers are , 1912 Staver Chicago. Total basket case , I hoped to see it running in my life time but these days who knows ? 1960 MGA 1600. I have owned it since the late 1970's . Eight month a year driver for nearly 20 years { hides from salt the other 4 }. Runs and drives but it needs work to be back on the road. The last 60 years are catching up with it, never restored just kept driving. 1977 Lola T492. I like Sports Cars and Vintage Racing. Bought it last year for a very attractive price { as these things go }. My last attempt at getting back into racing before I am too old. But a bigger strain on the budget than I can handle without some added $ from a sell off. Which looks increasingly over optimistic these days. A simple to maintain race car that is fast enough to be interesting on a limited budget. I wanted one all my life and took a chance last year when one came up at a once in a lifetime price. Still it drained my hobby $ reserve for the foreseeable future. Greg

For me it might be a Lotus type 62. I like production Lotus Europa's and have owned 3 over the decades. The production Europa gave birth to the Lotus factory race version, the Lotus 47. Rare and costly. Around 60 produced, and well outside my reach ; $125,000.00 and up these days. But for me the ultimate is the type 62. Only 2 built. The Vauxhall based Lotus 907 engine as later used in things like the Esprit. Full tube chassis rather than the sheet metal , " backbone " style of the Europa and type 47. And lots more. Lotus was getting out of GT racing and the car was not properly developed or supported . At least 1 of the 2 built now lives in the U.S. , I belive they both survive. Lotus Europa { S2 }, type 47, and type 62. A number of type 62 replicas have been built.

Hi Layden, that sounds a bit tricky but with care should be possible. I can see a mental image of what you are suggesting. On a light vehicle like a " T " less than 360 degrees of support between the rim and the fellow band should be sufficient . As I am picturing it each wedge section might be 3 or 4 inches long ? Biggest challenge seems to me the insuring that the inner wedged surface is concentric with new rim and equal thickness with all the other wedge sections.. Each wedge section will need careful grinding to remove exactly the thickness that was the old rim section. And then careful welding possibly using a fellow band and the clamps to position everything prior to tack welding. A small amount of runout can probably be tolerated on a vehicle with a relatively slow road speed like a Model T . Great suggestion to solve a thorny problem ! Greg

I am not aware of anyone making new ones. Normal clincher rims are definitely available but they won't work with your fellow bands. Have you found a Firestone stamping on either the rim or fellow band ? It would be nice to know with 100% sureness they actually are Firestone. Although that is the most likely make there were other rims on the market at the time, such as Stanweld as Bloo has suggested. I looked in my 1930 rim catalog but by that time only the factory fitted rims are listed. I have an older rim catalog but I will have to do some digging to find it. Those two opposed wedges on the inside of Firestone rims are not practical to form with light duty rim forming dies. Firestone must have used extremely heavy duty tooling when rolling the rims at their factory. Perhaps even rolling the rim blanks red hot. A lot of metal must be shifted to form a Firestone rim. I suspect that's why they are seldom if ever re- produced. Greg in Canada

Those do indeed look like Firestones. And as such a aftermarket fitment to a Ford T. Part of the Ambulance conversion ? They are probably quite rare today. If you want to use normal Model T rims you will probably have to change the fellow bands . Firestone fellow bands aren't going to work with anything but Firestone and possibly a few of the universal series rims of the day{ Not universal rim co. products but rather rims marketed as universal replacements } . All are rare today. I will look in my rim catalog and see if they are listed for any other vehicles other than Model T. Greg