1912Staver

That's a great deal, is should sell in a blink. You are way too far away to be interested. Always been partial to them, the original designer/ builder was from my area. Greg in Canada

When contemplating modifications of this sort I always begin with what part of the existing vehicle is unsuited to modern use. Rarely is the frame itself the problem but people see a frame swap as the quick and easy road to what they want. But it is a ton of work ! Nothing will be in the right palace with regards to the old frame. If you can afford a properly built replacement frame using newer susp. , braking , and steering components like those sold by Morrison and others then perhaps you will get what you are looking for. But otherwise , in my opinion you should adapt sub components to your existing frame and body with as little modification to the body as possible. And do it one step at a time. One year put in something like a Ford 9 ", and get the car driving and use it. the next year adapt the front suspension and brake master. Get it running and drive it. Finally adapt a decent rack and pinion, and drive it. As others have mentioned a complete frame swap is a major undertaking and often does not see the road again. Greg in Canada

The big factor is the cost of keeping the European luxo - barge running. Maintenance and repair on any older luxury make is pricy, Benz, top of the line BMW etc . costs can be jaw dropping for anyone { 99% of the public } who can't do things themselves. So once the cars hit an age where they are off warranty and needing attention it does not take long before they plummet in value. The original owner could afford the initial cost and upkeep, but as the car ages it falls into far less affluent hands, with little if any chance the costs will be a business related write- off as it was probably when it was new. Greg

You only felt vulnerable when next to a big rig ? I guess you had never seen a Europa after a collision, or at least the chunks of fiberglass that remain after a collision. Not much worse than a Sprite , Midget, Fiat 850 or similar but at least those ones kind of stay in one piece. After a while the driving position feel very natural, just be very aware of using your mirrors. The driving position is very close to most "real " racing cars, as opposed to modified production cars. But like the styling it takes some getting used to. The factory race version , Lotus 47, is a serious money car these days. And well deserved, just wish one was even remotely within my reach. Greg

For many years I could have nominated my Renault powered Lotus Europa. An acquired taste visually with every mechanical shortcoming and fragility in the known automotive world. When running they are a joy to drive, the big qualifier being" when running ". Many aftermarket improvements available these days , Toyota 4AGE and Ford Zetec engine kits , Spyder and Banks much improved chassis / suspension upgrades. And some people even have the patience and persistence to get satisfactory results out of the stock mechanicals, or the still Renault " Gordini " crossflow engine. { same short block as stock but a superior head , intake , exhaust layout}. Just not the performance / handling of the upgraded cars. But still quite perky given the flyweight build of the car. But these days prices and popularity are steadily moving upward. Really nice ones can go for substantial sums. Greg in Canada

Looks wise they are rather bland. But a joy to drive , particular the later 5 speeds. A very under rated car these days. The 907 engine is a landmark design. My car quota is full and then some but I could definitely make room for Jensen Healey . Greg in Canada

They both look very similar to my eye, just that one actually functions / drives extremely well, one just sort of OK. Same basic building blocks but very different results.

For only a little more than a decent 356 replica {intermeccanica etc} you can have something like a Beck 550. Then the engine is in the right place and the car is far more useably functional. I like mid engine cars very much, I don't like rear engine cars at all. If your are going to drive a sports car in a non - sporting manner I guess it doesn't matter. If you are going to drive it like a sportscar ; and you are a less than extremely good driver { 99 .5 % of us } , the mid engine layout comes out on top any day. Greg in Canada

1969 / 70 was the era I was old enough { almost a teenager } to really take notice of NASCAR . The cars and the racing / drivers were at a zenith. The teams were definitely professional but still at a relatively down to earth level. No multi million $ budgets. And although very specially prepared cars still quite a bit of connection to the production line starting points. Enough HP with the Boss 9's and Hemis that speeds were amazing on the superspeedways. Still a couple of road course races each year to keep things interesting. Enough driver safety to start to shrink the " Russian roulette " factor.

There are at least two different perspectives that can be looked at in terms of the Pricing / Market equation. The first is a person relatively new to the hobby. The prices are what they are, the supply vs demand factor. The newly interested individual knows his budget ; takes a look at what is available at that price point , and either makes a choice or possibly even looks into a different pastime. For those of us decades into the hobby it tends to be a far more complex situation. Many forces at work including both internal and external. In the end it does boil down to supply and demand but for many a far more complex equation. Unless you have been involved with old cars for 30 - 50 years you probably have no idea of the range of factors involved. Just like in gambling ; the longer you do or try to do something , the more likely that the cards are going to fall against you. Health, both yours and your immediate family, prosperity, natural disasters, floods , fires, hurricanes , tornado's , market trends, inflation vs earnings, technical change in the workplace, globalization, dare I say pandemics. All can put forces in play that can derail the most well meaning of plans. The newly minted old car hobbyist just has the preceding few years influencing his experience. Going for the long haul introduces a vast gamut of variables , some will work out as positives, but many will definitely erode a hobbyists base line. There is a stunning spectrum of moving parts in a 25 - 35 year slice of our lives. Greg in Canada

When I was young, a local Dentist had a 1969 Camaro COPO . As I learned later, at the time none of my friends or I even knew what a COPO was. We just knew it was rather out of the ordinary. A very non descript car , medium green non - metallic paint, dog dish hubcaps , and a exhaust burble that spoke volumes. Neither the Dentist or his wife who usually drove it were ever known to use any of its performance potential, why they bought it is a mystery. They could have been happy with a 250 and a powerglide from what I saw of their driving habits. In 1974 the older brother of a girl I knew in my grade 10 class bought it from the dentist and used it in a much more expected manner. He was a few years older than us so about 18 at the time. Not a total squirrel but not one to shy away from a challenge either. By about 1978 the car had passed into the hands of a person I was decades later working with for a number of years. One day we were reminiscing about the cars of our youth and he mentioned the Camaro. He said it was simply the fastest street car he had driven. At the time he was in the fishing industry when depending on the season the paycheques could be quite spectacular. Life evolved for him, fishing saw a big downturn, then the usual wife, son , mortgage and the COPO moved on. He ended up the same as me, a marine engineer . We both cherished the memories of that car, me since it was new in 1969, him since he first saw it in 1978. Wonder where it is today ? Greg in Canada

Ed, I hope your reality spreads geographically over the next 5 years or so. Up here close to the North Western wilderness prices are still at 3 or 4 years behind what you are seeing today. Little inventory on the market apart from run of the mill cars , mostly rods but some vanilla vintage cars as well. But prices are still like it is 2015. I doubt that many are selling but who knows. And many that do sell probably sound a lot better in U.S. dollars, at least until a couple of months ago that market seemed active. Carl is almost next door to my area so he is probably seeing much the same in terms of selection and price. We pay lots for almost everything over here, old cars are just the tip of the iceberg. Greg in British Columbia

I think you will find inequity has increased substantially over that time period. I agree with your premise that "society as a whole is more affluent than ever" however that affluence in my point of view, is increasingly concentrated in higher net worth households. And there is a large body of research that support my notion of rising inequity as well as yours of overall affluence growth .The middle class; regardless of wise spending or not, is from what I can see definitely seeing purchasing power shrink. I am not commenting about the exceptional within the hobby ; cars or people, simply the ordinary. And relative situations over time. Most of the spending items you list above are increasingly rare these days in middle class budgets, despite rising standards of education and the growth of two income family's over the decades. There are a significant minority of households that have done very well indeed, and a even larger number who are either stagnant or slowly loosing ground. https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/ Or if you need some lockdown reading perhaps Thomas Piketty's " Capital in the Twenty- First Century " or his more recent " Capital and Ideology ". Greg

There is one other factor at work here, the loss of buying power a slice of the old car hobby households has experienced over the last 40 years. Before the early 1980's a good percentage of old car hobby participants could afford to be involved with a large portion of the overall market. Average and slightly better , middle class households could conceivably afford the lower 3/4 or so of the old car price spectrum. Even $10,000.00 bought a very respectable old car in those days. At $25,000.00 something reasonably special was a decent possibility. These days the middle class and lower households are in many cases finding it hard enough just to meet normal living costs. At the same time anything interesting in an old car is as often than not somewhere in the $20,000.00 - $75,000.00 bracket,. A noticeable disconnect between a middle class collector car cost and a middle class budget. Relatively few middle classed households have 3 times the discretionary spending similar households had 40 years ago, but many old car prices have seen at least a 3 fold increase over that some time. Some much more. Some attempt to offset part of this disconnect by small time vehicle flipping. The persons knowledge and situation within the hobby allows for decent buys, and then it is just a matter of connecting with the right buyer. Someone who knows what it is , wants it , and has the means to become the new owner. Up to recently it is a technique that has generally successful. Greg in Canada

For a good example of an unrealistic price look at the currently listed Briscoe package. { cars for sale } What's a decent running survivor worth ?, possibly $10,000 top's ? Here are a pair of total basket cases offered for about !/2 of that sort of price. Even if one of the { small } handful of later teen's Briscoe fans saw this pair I doubt many would bite. Greg in Canada.... nothing against Briscoe , but they aren't exactly a hot commodity these days.

Assuming the seller is going to remain active in the hobby post sale there is probably a psychological factor at work. He no doubt has a rough idea of the " next " car he wants to buy and the general asking price he sees on examples of that car. And if he is in a position to put up another $5000, $10000 or whatever he has a rough target of the new car price minus the available cash leaving the balance to be provided by the sale of the existing car. And he probably has at least some evidence that " his " car can conceivably be worth the target sum, auction results , ebay etc regardless of the fact that his car may be a pretty so- so example. Therefore he just needs to find the right buyer. Someone who sees the car in the same sort of light he saw it in when it was purchased rather than an opportunist buyer who knows a price is a great deal even though he wasn't looking for that particular sort of car. Then there are the obvious unrealistic sellers , nice examples of things like Gazelle kit cars with $15000 - $20000 price tags. A gem to the owner perhaps, and probably in line with the cost to have one built , but to 99 44/ 100 % of car hobbyist's something to be avoided like a virus. Estate sellers other than Widows generally just want the car gone, with whatever back in the pocket possible with the least amount of trouble. Greg in Canada

The dreaded molded plastic shifter cap. Not one of Fords better cost saving ideas. These days metal replacements are available aftermarket . Back in the 70's the only option was to make something yourself out of metal or buy another short lived plastic replacement from Ford parts dept. A decent enough gear box otherwise. It is still popular with Cortina and Capri fans, referred to as the "single rail ". Both of the common 4 Cyl. Ford engines ; 1600 pushrod " Kent " engine and the 2000 SOHC engine are very popular in vintage road racing. There is a formula car class for both. Formula Ford and Formula Continental respectively. Put either of the engines in a race chassis with a all up weight of around 1000 lbs and the performance is quite decent. A few Cortina's in my past ; and several friends who at one time had Capri's. Greg in Canada

They are quite popular today , and as dustycrusty says few survivors. I think most of the North American cars had the 2000 SOHC engine or the V6. The 1.4 was more of a European market choice. And the V6 from a slightly later car is a bolt in . Capri's in nice condition are definitely becoming reasonably sought after. N.O.S. trim, interior parts etc is rare and expensive. But well worth buying if the price isn't too outrageous. The 1970's brown isn't that bad , it was very popular at the time. Most desirable are the early cars with the small bumpers. Greg in Canada

Your clamping lugs appear to be C - 109 Kelsey Hayes. My catalog lists them as being used on 1928 Durant, 1927 - 28 Elcar , 1927 - 28 Locomobile 70, 1928 Star, 1927 -28 Marmon, 1927 - 28 Pierce Arrow. For the rims the most likely ones given the 19 inch diameter are the Durant , Star and Marmon . I doubt that a large car like a Marmon would have used only 4 rim clamps, so that leaves Durant or Star as likely suspects. Greg

Your rims look a lot like Jaxon but not quite the same as any in my 1930 rim catalog. The spare that looks like a Kelsey, which is correct for early 29 Desoto . The lugs also look like Jaxon. GM used lots of Jaxon rims , but several other did as well, Chrysler, Jewett and Gardner to name a few. For a positive I.D. you are going to have to remove a tire and tube and carefully examine the inside of the rim for any I.D. stampings. You will probably find both a Man. logo and a part number. Otherwise it is hard to be 100% accurate. Greg in Canada

In answer to GWELLS comment, I must confess I had not considered a simple donation as opposed to the standard membership. That was along the lines of what I was trying to get at regarding the concept of associate membership. The AACA Library as Steve Moskowitz has explained above is moving in a direction that will be of greater service to people limited to online access. I will be contributing to the AACA, just not to the extent of a normal non-USA membership. Don't worry about Canadians being unfamiliar with familiar US concept's and expressions. Our two cultures have a few differences but very many similarities. We may not know all the nuances of American history as it is not studied in nearly as much detail in Canadian schools as it is in the U.S. But we are educated (or at least my generation was) in all the key points of North American history. Greg

I agree completely. However in my case a good 75 % of my hobby spending over the last 20 years has been has been U.S. vehicle sellers, U.S. parts venders, U.S. literature sellers, U.S. swap meet sellers , Ebay USA Etc. I always look on the Canadian market first, but rarely do I find what I either want or need. The swap meet scene in Western Canada is OK but limited. In my case mostly tools, a few books and magazine back issues. Every now and then a part or two but really pretty slim pickings for what I am looking for. Washington State meets and the Portland Oregon meet have been far more productive for my situation. So the Lion's share are foreign currency transactions. Greg

Without trying to provoke a firestorm, strictly playing devils advocate . For a Canadian, membership in Canadian $ is about $70.00. Easily 2 tanks of gas for my little car. And bear in mind a Dollar in Canada is just as hard to earn as a Dollar in the U.S.A. just quite a bit less purchasing power. The hobby in Canada is in trouble, and the low value of our Dollar definitely plays a role. Just look at all the cars sold out of Canada each year. I agree that the magazine is high quality and represents tremendous effort and dedication from the people who put it together. I own a run of the AACA magazine from the early 1950's all the way up to about 2012. But at some point they became less applicable to my specific interests , the cost / benefit relationship became unsatisfactory. I came to the conclusion it would be best to drop my membership. I would like the times to allow the sort of club membership, magazine subscriptions and other activities I was able to enjoy 10, 15, 20 years ago. But in my case that is not possible. I have suggested in the past that something like a internet only " associate " membership at a substantially reduced cost would be a better fit for at least some people outside the mainstream of AACA activities but so far that idea has not seen any support that I am aware of. I have been told in the past that the expense of producing and mailing the club magazine is a major cost that the club membership covers. Even a great collection like the AACA library is of little value to someone like me. I am interested in many vintage cars but really only willing to pay for information specific to my car, a very obscure brass era car. Visiting the library in person is out of the question due to cost of the travel , 3000 miles in round figures each way, and $30.00U.S. per hour for staff research is equally out of my reach. So while I really like the idea of a major automotive history library, if it is essentially inaccessible its hard to justify financial contribution. Just throwing out some ideas / and my 2 cents worth of opinion. Greg

Spectacular ! Any left anywhere ? Greg in Canada

Membership in big, multi make, multi decade clubs like the AACA are often a dilemma for those of us at the fringes. Either as defined by geography , area of interest, affluence or as is often the case all 3 to one degree or another. As I understand the AACA ; feel free to correct me if I am mistaken , it is a club that is mainly about event's, judged shows, the Hershey Swap meet, and secondarily , but still very important things like the AACA library. These activities take place primarily ; but not limited to , the Eastern part of the U.S.A. And over the decades the democratic focus has shifted to increasingly newer cars. It is a natural consequence of a large membership . I haven't been a member for at least 5 years now so my impression may be a bit out of date. But from what I saw in the very nicely produced club magazine there was a definite slant towards newer collector cars, more likely than not in glistening , showroom condition. In my position as a person primarily interested in British Sports Cars and mid age , Brass Era cars it is easy to see that I am at the fringe of the AACA's vehicle coverage. My geographic location is in a generic sense similar to Mike Macartney's , that is a very long way from the location of the vast majority of AACA events. And my $ situation is pretty so - so, and slowly but surely declining. Add to that the extra cost that is added to a Canadian or Oversea's membership. For some this is a small enough factor that it does not influence the membership question. But for some of us every $ counts if we are going to continue in the hobby. These forums are great ! There are some very knowledgeable, enthusiastic and involved people on here. But the club as a whole unfortunately poses a problem for some of us at or near the fringe. It's not just club memberships that I have been having to make hard choices about ; several 15 years ago down to one today, but any purchase that does not meet the criteria of contributing to my main stream. Far fewer books, photos, and even eliminating some of the events I at one time automatically went to each year. No advertising , far fewer tools, no interesting nick nack's. Just a cut to the bone hobby expense. Definitely not my preference, but I am increasingly left without option's. The virus may be the icing on the cake. Greg in Canada