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scott12180

virginia Law to restrict old cars to 50 miles from home?

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A friend in the machine shop at work mentioned that he read (in Hemmings, I think) that legislation was introduced in Virginia to restrict the operation of antique and collector vehicles to a radius within 50 miles of the address where the car is registered. Any comments? Any truth to this? If true, what can possibly be the rationale or logic?

Whenever I hear something like this I get really scared. Any time government thinks of a new way to take away more of our freedom, it is inevidable that it will spread. Today Virginia, tomorrow it's a federal law.

--Scott

1926 Packard

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Scott, there was a bill discussed earlier this year about that restriction, and other changes brought on because of the typical 25 year old "paint wagon" on the way to the job site wearing the Va Antique tags. The bill died(in committee), but will probably be looked at again next year.

Compliance of the Antique tag law is poor to say the least. You, me, and everyone can do their part by turning in the people abusing the antique tag law. If you see the same vehicle more than 2 times a week, and he is certainly using it as a work vehicle, call a cop, turn him in.

We've been lucky so far, but we need to keep everyone honest.

Wayne

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Perhaps one solution to the abuse of antique tags is to modify the age of a vehicle that can qualify for antique tags. A twenty-five year old car today really is not much different from a 2006 model, relative to a twenty-five year old car back in the 1950's when this rule was adopted.

A better method might be to have a rolling qualification based on the percentage of total automobile history. What I mean is, say back in 1950 a 25 year old car qualified to be an antique by the AACA. That was roughly a car that was half as old as the automobile itself. In 1960, that logic would make a 1930 car eligible to be an antique. In 1980, it would be a 1940 car. For 2006 it would be a car made in 1953.

I know there's lots of people out there who love collector cars alot newer than 1953, and that's great. But to call them "antiques" and to legally classify a 1981 Ford in the same category as a 1912 Model T Ford, for instance, is really abusing the definition of antique.

My $0.02

-Scott

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I've said it before- the blame for abuse of antique plates in VA lies <span style="font-weight: bold">SQUARELY</span> with DMV itself, because they do not screen applications and actually encourage sales of antique plates to anyone who comes in to register an older car. "Did you know your car qualifies for antique plates?" I say, the DMV clerk needs to go out and look at the car, or at least require proof of membership in a legitimate car club. That way the cost of dues for a club membership would take away the financial incentive of running antique plates on a clunker. Conversely, such a requirement would bolster club memberships. Possibly require any antique licensed vehicle to provide proof of insurance with a collector-car insurance company? the annual mileage limits would take care of a lot of antique plate fraud.

I'm all for having the antique plate option because it saves me a pile of money every year, but then again my antique licensed stuff is driven and maintained as an antique car. Even though it qualifies for antique license under VA law, I still keep the personalised plate on the 1974 Hurst/Olds simply because I like it. That car has been driven less than 150 miles in the last two years. The other four with antique/YOM plates rarely get driven more than 1000 miles a year.

Wayne, I can't prove it, but I suspect the Danville Police Department had a finger in Danny Marshall's legislation last year. Over the past year- at suggestion of DMV itself, which doesn't want to be bothered with enforcement of the statute- I've personally turned in nine questionable antique plates to the PD, and every damn one of those cars is still wearing antique plates. So much for anyone enforcing the laws on the books.

I also question the argument that a 1981 car is not much different from a 2006. Except for having wheels and an engine, the cars are light-years apart simply by virtue of the technology they use. A well-maintained or restored to original 1981 car that is driven and maintained as an antique is just as much an historical vehicle as a similar Model A. Not as valuable, but a part of an overlooked era of history nonetheless.

My Toronado regularly stuns people who never knew there were front-wheel drive cars before K-cars. Likewise young people have never seen a car as large as my 1976 Ninety Eight. These cars may not be considered antique by some, but they are nice examples of what <span style="font-weight: bold">was</span> the American automobile.

Leave the 25 year rolling exemption; just screen what's being issued an antique license plate.

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Guess we need to clarify the 50 miles from home thing too- The original antique vehicle statutes limited driving to parades, car club functions, testing and pleasure trips no more than 50 miles from owner's residence. Several years back, the mileage limit was increased to 250 miles to accomodate touring. Last year's legislation would have rolled the mileage limit back to 50. I need to talk with Danny again to see if he'll head off Leo Wardrup on this thing. Wardrup is one of several urban legislators who have no business making law for the rest of Virginia. Not quite as bad as Michelle McQuigg, but he's close.

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Glenn, the 50 mile change died in committee as did the other suggested changes, but everyone involved is prepared for next year. I like your idea of having to belong to a club. I'll pass that along.

Thanks, Wayne

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questions ,do you have to have historical insurance to get historical plates in Va?my desoto in Ny required that.i had to send pictures of my car to get the insurance.every year i have to send my odometer reading to the insurance company.i am omly allowed 2500 miles a year[i do 200].as much as i hate saying it dmv and the insurance company could weed out 80 percent of these people if they would make an effort.

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VA is one of those states which doesn't require insurance at all. If you elect to drive w/o insurance you have to post a bond payment before you can register the car or get or renew plates. I think it's $600/year now, not sure as I never have to fool with it. I think it's insane to drive without insurance.

So no, antique/collector/historical insurance is not required to get antique plates here, though it's not a bad idea.

That's what really chaps my hide, that VADMV doesn't want to enforce its own regulations but instead recommends contacting the local PD, who aren't interested in writing a misuse of plates ticket. The abuse of antique plates could be stopped right then and there if DMV would only screen the cars they issue them to.

What am I thinking? This is the same DMV who issues drivers' licenses to illegals and terrorists.

I'm not too keen on modern, GM-powered, kit-built street rods wearing antique plates either. By rights they are a modern vehicle and should be wearing regular issue plates, but they get out of safety and emissions inspections with antique plates. The difference is even though these cars aren't antiques, they aren't clunkers. Maybe it's time VA offered a street rod plate like the surrounding states do. Lord knows they'll create a license plate for any other special interest group.

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it sounds like its dmv not doing what they are supposed to.as far as insurance historical insurance requirement for historical carsthat would end 98 percent of the problem.the insurance company would turn most of these cars down and to lie about mileage ect is fraud.i pay $94 per year full coverage for my 50 desoto.my other cars thats a different story[new jersey] <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

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Why do most of you think having Politicians enacting new laws will make everything okay, and all of the people who ae not now following the current laws are going to abide by any new ones.

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Could it be possible that some Antique and Classic car clubs are actually in concert with the Lawyers, insurance companies and other special interest groups to enact new or tougher regulations and laws. Why should anyone owning a classic car (or any car) have to join a club? I also own two vintage motorcycles. Should I have to join a Motorcycle club also?

Politicians can come up with enough wacky laws without help from people who are merely trying to enjoy a rather expensive hobby that is helping to preserve part of an America already destroyed by the so called servants of the public trust.

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Don't get me wrong. I'm against stupid, nanny, or revenue-generating legislation as much as anyone and probably more than most.

But if it means being able to keep my antique plates instead of having them gutted because the state keeps selling antique plates for clunkers instead of policing themselves...

Burden of proof should be on owner/applicant first, and if he can't prove his car is driven and maintained as a collector car instead of possible use as daily transportation, then the state should deny the antique plate application.

Take away the financial incentive the Virginia antique license plate affords, you'll see the problem correct itself shortly. In the meantime, the existing antique plates that have been issued to clunker daily drivers have to be dealt with and rescinded. They're permanent plates and that will complicate things. DMV's pat response to complaints is to turn in the plate to local law enforcement. Local LE doesn't want to be bothered with improper registration tickets. Then the damn lawmakers want to swoop down and gut things for everyone.

I still say the DMV should screen every antique plate application that crosses the counter and require the applicant to request the plates instead of suggesting the car is eligible for them.

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bow, Virginia's legislative seminars are ongoing. There will be NO requirement to join a car club in Virginia to have antique tags. There MAY be a milage restriction somewhere in the future, but that doesn't look like that's going to happen now either. As I write this, there's still a little stalemate as eveyone imvolved tries the rectify this situation, basically an abuse of the use of the antique tag. It'll probably be after the first of the year before anything actually takes the form of a bill in Virginia.

Wayne

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In fact, in 1960 AACA did recognize cars 25 years old and older, and that was 1935. They also recognized specified "classic cars" up to 1948 at that time. However, the rules said that 1935 was the permanent and definite cut-off. That rule was not changed until 1968 when the rule was changed to allow one new year every other year. By 1974 the 1935 rule had moved up to 1938. In 1974 the rules were changed to again be 25 years old and older, which allowed the 1939 through 1950 cars all to come in at the same time, during that one year. This history is in the front of the AACA Policy & Procedure Manual which can be found in the top yellow line under Publications.

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Just when you think things are going well, we have this to deal with;

From our main man, Tom Cox!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Hello Everyone,

I am writing to ask that you please have as many people as possible contact ( call and E-mail ) Senator Martin Williams, Chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee to ask that he rescind his amendment to our bill that would leave the 250 mile limit on pleasure use driving.

All was well until late today when the Senate Transportation Committee decided to amend HB2465 to leave the 250 mile limit in the statute, after it had been removed as a result of hard won compromise in the House. This limitation is unenforceable and may actually make it more difficult to enforce the new statute, allowing parasitic use of our tag to go unpunished.

This is not the end of the world since you may still drive an unlimited number of miles to any club functions or shows. However, this limit on pleasure driving more than 250 miles from your home is needless. Especially given all the other changes that are being made to the statute to eliminate abuse. It is also unenforceable.

Very politely ask that the Senator pass HB2465 exactly as the House approved after long hours of negotiation without amendment. His contact info is below.

This cannot wait!!! Please do this now and pass it on.

Thanks,

Tom Cox

Senator Martin E. Williams

® - Senate District 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In-session address:

General Assembly Building, Room 332

Capitol Square

Richmond, Virginia 23219

(804) 698-7501

email: district01@sov.state.va.us </div></div>

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It's not getting any better guys, but at least it's moving ahead!

Wayne

Hot off the presses today, February, 20,2007!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

HB 2465 Alert !!!

Hello All,

I thought before the rumor mill cranked up, I would let you know that HB2465 was amended two more times today by the Senate. In addition to restoring the 250 mile limit late last week, the Senate, at the request of Senator Marty Williams has again ignored us and amended the bill. His amendments today reduced the penalty for misuse to a class 4 misdemeanor (minor traffic violation), which is not really a huge problem for us. It does however put less fear in the hearts of those who would abuse the tags. In addition, he has removed the prohibition against commercial use, which is not really a good thing. Although, there is still specific language outlining the use parameters which prevents the carrying of anything other than passengers, their personal effects, and or other antique vehicles for show purposes. That coupled with the limited use language accomplishes the same goal though perhaps not as succinctly.

At the end of the day we should allow the House to accept these amendments and move on. Further beating this horse next year could prove more perilous, creating as yet unknown problems for us. No it isn't perfect, but I will take it after two years of wrangling. We still avoided annual State inspections, loss of our personal property tax exemption, and far worse possibilities. I have spoken with Delegates Marshall, Griffith, as well as Senator Bell, DMV, and Delegate Wardrups office and they concur. Let's let this rest for now.

Sincerely,

Tom Cox

President Southwest VA Car Council

Chairman Legislative Affairs AACA

</div></div>

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Wayne, you'll have to keep me posted thru this site as me magic box went terminal a couple weeks ago and at 8 years old I am really not inclined to spend any money on it. I can surf a little at work.

I sure hate our "own" improvements are being slowly gutted. The legislator probably thinks he's doing us a favor, but all that will happen is this will come up again in a few years- probably with worse returns.

I just hope Danny will shut up about it. I may not be entirely civil if he pushes it again. It's interesting that in the newsletters he puts in the local papers, he has not mentioned his efforts to gut a law that didn't need changing, just enforcing. Crows pretty loud about other stuff he does though. That "Earnhardt Day" bill he pushed thru grated on me.

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He's no friend of mine either Glenn. I had Steve send him an AACA Magazine (Thanks Steve!) to see what our hobby is about hoping he would join. I haven't heard one way of the other what happened afterwards. I don't expect him to send a thank you to any of us.

I'll keep you informed.

wayne

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From Delegate Danny Marshall,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

2.27.07

Thanks to all of you for your work on the Antique tag bill for 2007. As you may know, the House passed 100% of the bill. When it went to Senate Transportation, they added back in the 250 miles, deleted the "commercial" part. I think we got 90% of what we wanted. Let me know if we want to go back in 2008 or 2009 and try and fix these problems. The Governor can make changes to the bill also. So we are not finished yet.

Danny Marshall

</div></div>

Wayne

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An E-mail I sent to Delegate Marshall and his reply.

Delegate Marshall

Dear Sir,

May I just add that I would hope that DMV would correct the flawed registration form in use now. A change in this form would have prevented most of these abusers in the first place. A short list of the requirements to register an antique vehicle should be printed on the registration form, as it is for "logging trucks", as an example, with very precise descriptions of the law.

Thank you for working with us on this situation.

Wayne Burgess

Editor-Northern Neck Region AACA

<span style="font-weight: bold">Response from Delegate Marshall</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Robert, I think you are 100 % correct. We asked and DMV agreed that the first line of defense should be the people at the counters. DMV said they will train and retrain there people. Danny Marshall

</div></div>

*

*

*

*

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Hmmm. Why couldn't he have taken that tack to begin with? I'm beginning to understand why the word "disingenuous" has been used to describe him.

Wayne, you have private email from me.

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Didn't receive your e-mail Glenn.

Wayne

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So now with a restriction on the miles you can be from home, now what happens when you trailler your model t down to Hershey and drive it around there during the show, are you breaking the law?? will you get tickets from Pa. police for invalid plates??

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http://www.wbtm1330.com/1news.htm

Here's what I sent you. Looks like Mr. Marshall may have a challenger next election. Adam Tomer is young and sharp with good ideas, and <span style="font-weight: bold">owns a 66 Mustang.</span> Not crazy about his Democratic ties, but he'll get my vote if he runs, and probably some time and money.

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