putting a v8 in a 41 plymouth coupe

[41rat]

i own a 1941 plymouth business coupe.i bought it totally stock and i would like to put a early 60's v8 & drive train into the car. what i don't want to do is put in a sub frame....i'm looking to keep the frame & front suspention as stock as possible.would also like to install disc brakes in the front/dual resiviour master cyl.

where can i get some technical advise on the best way to do this...

most of these cars that i've seen have either sub frames fabricated in or are stock!!

[Guest BillP]

AACA is interested in maintaining cars as they came from the factory. Thanks for stopping by.

[nearchoclatetown]

This could get ugly!! 41rat, try the Jalopy Journal site, think it's www., forum is called the HAMB. There's a lot of like minded people there with lots of good info. Read the "new guy intro" thing at the top or it will get real ugly there, too.

[25Buick25]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AACA is interested in maintaining cars as they came from the factory. Thanks for stopping by. </div></div>

Ouch. Not cool, Bill........

I'd also recommend http://www.hotrodders.com/ which has tonns of great info!

Even tho the AACA probably isn't the best place to get advice on modifying your coupe, I hope this is helpful. Sorry about the not so warm welcome.

[Guest BillP]

I wasn't aware this was a redirection agency for hotrodders.

For your information, in addition to a small barn full of restored and original vehicles from the thirties through the seventies, I have a few modified sports cars, some farm equipment and various other old machinery.

I found Jalopy Journal on my own five years ago and post there from time to time as the mood suits. Same thing with MG, Porsche and vintage racing bulletin boards.

Furthermore, did it ever occur to you how entertaining it would be for some young buck to wind up the old poops at AACA by asking their advice on cutting up a pristine but imaginary old coupe? Why get involved, just thank them and send them on their way. At least that's my opinion. Saves a lot of horsing around.

If this is a bonafide post, the Plymouth in question may or may not get ripped up, but I don't guess AACA would want to have a hand in it, do you?

[Twitch]

41rat- everybody here doesn't believe that all old cars should have their original set of tires. I completely understand you wanting to keep the appearance original while desiring to actually drive the car more than 20 miles from home at over 35 MPH and apply the brakes and really stop.

And yes, I have a 1950 Packard that is unmodified for the most part- oops radials and recovered driver seating area.

[Guest BillP]

That's not the point, Twitch.

[ex98thdrill]

Hey, the man is asking a question. Either help him out or leave him alone. He didn't post a topic to be preached to, he's asking a question, and he's looking for an answer.

[Twitch]

Dude, go here to talk to folks with experience in modding http://www.clubhotrod.com

[nearchoclatetown]

BillP, reread the original question! It asks where can he get technical info on what he wants to do. Nowhere does it ask for an opinion or permission to do it. It even says he owns the car in question. If he had ask for info on restoring his Plymouth I would have told him to stick around here, Lord knows we have plenty of EXPERTS.

[25Buick25]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's not the point, Twitch. </div></div>

You're right. The point is that there are about a hundred posts around here wondering how to attract younger people to the hobby, and this kind of attitude chases them away. The guy was asking for advice, thinking that guys who like cars are all the same and that we share a common interest and that maybe we could help him out. It looks like there are a few peopel who can help him here, with one exception.......you. We don't have to give him step-by-step instructions on how to cut up his car (note that it is HIS car), but we can at least extend a helping hand to a fellow hobbyist, even if you don't agree with his choices. Would you treat me the same if I wanted to paint my 25 Buick bright pink?

I dont think anyones time is wasted helping someone else, even if you dont agree with there objectives. He's probably going to modify the car with or without our help, why not make sure he does it safely and with the information he needs? Why not help him join the old car hobby, because if he's like me, he'll get tired of the hot rodds someday and get an old car to enjoy stock, and maybe he would have come here looking for friends. Instead, he'll remember that we chased him away with pitchforks and torches..............

[The Old Guy]

For what it is worth, I joined the AACA in 1968 because my boys wanted to drive my "hotrod' to school (1929 Ford roadster pickup) and I wanted to stay in the car hobby. I was accepted with reservations, but when i did a frame off on a 1932 Buick 90 series, the members figured out that a "hotrodder" could also do the other stuff too. My boys are now grown, but I still have restored cars ( my 40 has been to Meadowbrook) and a street rod. The first thing to do is get them in the organization,and then indoctrinate them

[Steve Moskowitz]

This is going to be trouble! Don't dump on Bill too much. I do believe in civility on this site but AACA's whole purpose for being is the <span style="font-weight: bold">preservation, restoration and maintenaince</span> of vehicles as they were manufactured (race car exception). There <span style="font-weight: bold">are</span> plenty of other organizations that are dedicated to the modified hobby.

I have stated here before that I began my interest in cars as a "hot rodder"...I had them, I like them <span style="font-weight: bold">but</span> as I have switched my interest to antique cars I realize we still have to fight to save and preserve our history. This weekend we have the Good Guys meet in Hershey and the cars on the streets are magnificent. Many of the cars are specifically built from new fiberglass and steel parts and I have zero problem with that. However, I do wince when I see a rare car that has been modified. It is the owner's right to do as they will but nonetheless it is troubling to me.

AACA has developed this site to promote <span style="font-weight: bold">the antique car hobby</span> and it is why we offer all like minded clubs the free discussion forum. We are promoting our beliefs. Maybe Bill should have been more "gentle" in his remarks but I sure would not want to see us become a site that supports the modifying of our historic cars. Plenty of other sites, magazines, etc. to help those people.

[Twitch]

Exactly! I can tell you from personal knowledge that newbies going to the hotrod site I mentioned are not verbally degraded (not that BillP did that) for asking about repair maintenence stock original cars instead of hotrods.

And to no one in particular, just an observation- There are way too many uptight "100% stock antique or bust" people with a laser-narrow focus that is just unabashedly, radically predjudicial that simply smacks of political correctness with a smoldering, underlying, seething rage for anyone that doesn't share their explicit views. This collective attitude is what is turning me off to this part of the auto hobby more than anything. I can take my car to a cruise in event and the rodders like and respect my Packard and I respect their cars. Frankly I'd rather be around people like that and 25Buick than a bunch of self appointed saviors.

Maybe some car folks should collect 16th century snuff boxes instead. Wait! No. That's no good either. "Look someone in the 18th century made a repair that slightly modified the hinge!"

Sheesh!

[Charles2]

This is a forum for those interested in restoring and maintaining historic automobiles not their modification. Nevertheless, good manners are always in order. Please give it a break; you're a perfect example of the old addage "often in error, never in doubt"

[Guest]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div> "And to no one in particular, just an observation- There are way too many uptight "100% stock antique or bust" people with a laser-narrow focus that is just unabashedly, radically predjudicial that simply smacks of political correctness with a smoldering, underlying, seething rage for anyone that doesn't share their explicit views. This collective attitude is what is turning me off to this part of the auto hobby more than anything. I can take my car to a cruise in event and the rodders like and respect my Packard and I respect their cars. Frankly I'd rather be around people like that and 25Buick than a bunch of self appointed saviors."

____________________________________________________________________________

The words above by a previous poster are a bit provocative and warrant a response.

___________________________________________________________________________

This particular comment has caused me to take the time to ask this question. Are many of those who are posting on the forum recently, representative of the antique car hobby or are many of them relative newcomers who want to change things to suit their concept of what the antique car hobby should be? A lot of the former Forum enthusiasts who used to offer help to others have gone, to be replaced by the "Look what I've got" or "This is how I want the AACA to be" crowd. There seem to be some who are more interested in playing on the computer than they are in the physical well being of the antique automobile as espoused by the AACA?

I am not all bent out of shape over hot rods, although they interest me about as much as bird watching. I just wonder if there are as many true antiquers going on the hot rod forums trying to change their focus and direction as there are hot rod enthusiasts coming on here and trying to change ours. You have the right to do as you please with your cars, but please stop knocking what I do with mine. I like to restore a car to original, compete for a few awards and then tour around the country with other like minded people who like to drive cars as they were when they were built, whether that be 25 or 95 years ago.

I am not trying to start a war here or even a small fist fight, but some of us are getting a bit tired of discussions and comparisons of "How much rubber I can burn off of my tires" in a crowded, confined space with hundreds of people around. Your cars are neat to you, but don't necessarily have a broad based following outside of your immediate circle of enthusiasts.

Maybe the Forum leadership can create a small section somewhere where antique cars as defined within the framework of AACA can be discussed in an environment free of other subjects. Then give us a quick fingered moderator who will instantly delete all non relevent postings. I think purists should have a home too.

hvs

[Guest BillP]

Sir, may I be allowed the password to that section?

[Guest]

Bill ~ If only such a concept could be brought to fruition. I'm really getting a bit tired of wandering around the forum enveloped in a cloud of burned rubber smoke.

hvs

[Rick Hoover]

Join the crowd Howard. And I keep being asked why more AACA members don't talk on here asking questions about their cars, or helping with answers. DUH?

[Guest JT]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this is a bonafide post, the Plymouth in question may or may not get ripped up, but I don't guess AACA would want to have a hand in it, do you?

</div></div>

I often wonder how many of these queries are "real"?

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I often wonder how many of these queries are "real"? </div></div>

Given the number of times I've read street rodders referring to their handiwork as "restoration", I'd say every last one and I'm very surprised how few there are.

Today's count on the Yahoo search engine:

"hot rod" +restoration: 233,000 hits,

"antique car" +restoration: 92,500 hits.

There are "noted automotive authorities" that no longer make a distinction between street rods and real cars. (Am I the only one who cringes every time Ted Jones or Don Garlits opens his mouth on the "Mother's Car Show" on ESPN2? Here's a typical clip, do not watch if you like rare LaSalles!)) <span style="font-style: italic">That's</span> the voice the public hears, not ours. Authenticity is dying.

[Guest]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div> "noted automotive authorities"

BULLPUCKY!

hvs

[nearchoclatetown]

HVS, I'm sorry I couldn't respond sooner to your post, but I've been busy watching the Goodguys tearing up the neighbor's parking lot. They must have trouble with clutches in those old cars because there's black tire marks everywhere! But from what I'm hearing those Guys left enough $$ behind to repave the parking lot and then some.

[Guest]

A fool and his money are soon parted. Or as I prefer it -- A fool and his money are some party.

HV

[michel88]

The general public has come to think that any old car is a hot rod. That shows how pervasive this hot rod culture has become. That is why the AACA should be one club that doesn't embrace modifying cars. When I pull into a gas station with my completely stock '63 Riviera, you would be surprised how many people say to me "Thats a nice hot rod"! We should politely steer questions of how to modify a car to the many other hot rod sites.

[Twitch]

The term hot rod today has taken a different meaning to most. If you watch NHRA event on ESPN you'll notice guys with big buck, 7,000HP funny cars and top fuelers call their cars "hot rod" as in "our hot rod is running good today!"

As a kid in the 50s I recall the term "jalopy" encompassing all old cars with fenders separate from bodies in style, ie., early 1940s and back. So what is a jalopy now? Could a 1986 Corolla a little ragged around the edges be one? For certain a Corolla will never be called a hot rod.

[Guest sixpack2639]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what is a jalopy now? Could a 1986 Corolla a little ragged around the edges be one? For certain a Corolla will never be called a hot rod. </div></div>

If they are, I have a jalopy in my yard! And on many occasions my daughter thinks it is a hot rod, or she's Mario Andretti, i'm not sure which!

[Ron Green]

Howard your response above (5/20) is spot on, excellent thoughts. I wonder how many of these pro-hotrod / heavy modification posters are even AACA members?

With all the many different type of car clubs to choose from, there is one for everyone's taste, not one club that fits all. One anlage, say someone liked 40's big band music and not much of anything else, why would they buy a concert ticket to a tuba ensemble or a square dancing show? Just because both are considered music some may feel they are obligated to enjoy it to a point?

I stand by my quote from last week, "I find it hard to understand that with the few remaining stock only shows that are available why there is always so much discussion in trying to end them , in my opinion."

[A. Woolf]

Twitch,

There you go again. You spend most of your time coaching people on why they should modify their old car instead of learning the car and how to drive it. I have driven my 1913 Model T (which is 97% unmodified) over 800 miles in the last six weeks in all kinds of driving conditions... rain, sun, traffic, no traffic, etc. I am like Howard in that it gets old listening to pi$$ing contests about who can lay the most rubber on the street. Teaching young drivers all about burning rubber and breaking speed limits is not the best idea in the world. I don't understand this attitude about wanting hot rods on the AACA show field or participating in AACA events. For whatever reason AACA and similar organizations seem to be a thorn in the side of the hotrod community. I don't care anything about invading modified car events. So why do they keep bothering us?? Do we make them feel guilty

Alan

[41rat]

do you smell that to...i think it's an old fart!!

hey don't be so damn uptight,i was looking for a starting point on getting some direction with this project.thanks to all of you that helped me out.

just fer the record...i ain't no butcher.

i totally understand the value in a fully restored stock vehicle.

there is nothing prettier that outdated technology....

as for my vehicle stock is not an option...it just doesn't apeal to me no matter what it is stock isn't my thing.

sorry for offending you with my project and misspelling!!

is any one interested in buying the engine & trans from me...the starter is rebuilt and all the linkages are in great shape!!

[41rat]

hey thanks ...the site is great.

rich

[ex98thdrill]

How much do you want for the engine and transmission? We've got a '40 but ours is stock and I couldn't help you with the questions you raised on your original post.

[Twitch]

41rat-Hey guy- I don't have the slighest idea where the notion of hot rods has got to do with only doing donuts and burning rubber. That's just bizarre. I know you're not interested in entering a modified 41 Plymouth in any AACA event so I have no concept of why that was mentioned. Guess what, folks will do what they want with their cars and no one can do anything about it.

I know you found this site by accident and had no idea you'd be attacked by anyone. Most people here are quite sanctamonious in their verve to protect old, stock cars from even minor modification even if someone else owns them. Yeah, that's the philosphy to the organization but it reads like a Manchurian Candidate post script with the mindless repetition of dogma. It really is at the point where even posting anything about making any type of modification to a car is met with childish, narrow-minded anger. Some have even voiced the idea that hot rodders be physically abused.

It's pretty unrealistic to imagine everyone buying in to our philosophy on how all people should revere different cars. No one ever said anyone should be encouraged to modified their car here. But, seriously, are a few of us car nerds really going to change anyone's mind especially with the verbiage that some use to denegrate possible modifiers of cars?

I have more than a one-track mind on cars. I like them all- originals, restored stockers, Bonneville speed record cars, hot rods, customs, exotics, imports new and classic, trucks. Dang I even like all types of motorcycles!

Some guy thinks stocker purists make rodders feel guilty about something. One thing I can tell you for certain is that a person purveying dialogue about their 100% stock classic car is met with much more cordial interest and civility on a "hot rod" website forum than anyone that discusses ANY type of modifications on this site.

So, 41rat, as the Shutz Staffeln puts on their jackboots to march, and the Borg singlemindedly tells you "resistence is futile," please know that there are many guys here who have both stock and modded cars and others that, at least, have an open-minded view on what people are allowed to do with their own vehicles.

Curiously, this thread has far and away more views than any on the board. Wonder why that is?

[Ron Green]

Quote; "please know that there are many guys here who have both stock and modded cars and others that, at least, have an open-minded view on what people are allowed to do with their own vehicles."

I am one of those who own pure stock cars plus one heavy modified custom vehicle (1 of 3 produced). My commonsense tells me that a hotrod / custom site would be better to discuss the later and this site for the pure stock, as there is a world of difference between the two, hence various sites for different needs. One club doesn't fit all.

Not trying to start a fight but there are enough good old cars still being chopped apart and ruined by amateurs that watch to many TV shows, as I witnessed with the Goodguys in town this past weekend.

Quote: "Curiously, this thread has far and away more views than any on the board. Wonder why that is?"

Probably because us purist are interested in maintaining what the AACA stands for, Antique Automobile Club of America.

[Guest JT]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It really is at the point where even posting anything about making any type of modification to a car is met with childish, narrow-minded anger. </div></div>

Mmmm... and the post above??

[Guest BillP]

I concluded earlier that my contribution to this thread had reached a certain maturity, but I must add a postscript.

Twitch, it does no good to invoke images of jackbooted Nazis in this discussion. In my opinion, the positions stated here have been fairly mild and reasonable. I just don't see the 'seething rage, uptight, radically prejudicial political correctness' that you cite, but maybe I don't have your unique insight.

This isn't a hot rod site, which is why I didn't offer the Plymouth guy a cool lemonade when he asked how to hot rod his car. I still suspect the sincerity of the origianl post. I sometimes speak with brevity, and type the same way. In re-engineering that car, I figured the least of the guy's problems will be internet information. Some saw that as hostility.

Nazis are a whole different story.

[Fierce Sparrow]

I can see both sides - I have restored cars and I have hot-rodded others.

Tendency these days is not to be bothered by the facts of the old days - it is a losing battle. AACA's history is full of examples - this is not a new struggle. Was a time when some of us thought Model "A" Fords were WAY TOO MODERN to be called "antiques" 'cause they had four wheel internal expanding brakes, steel bodies, electric lights - heck - some of them even had cabin heaters. My 2003 Chevrolet is a "classic". If you dont believe me, read the chrome strip on the trunk deck.

The big car clubs have manangers that feel they have a duty to increase membership and participation - to do that, we are going to have to accept the younger person's idea of what is "cool". There is an alternative thinking - seen in the HCCA (Horseless Carriage Club Of America). They have a small group of people who have retained control over their club management, so the definition of a "horseless carriage" has remained unchaged down thru the years.

[Guest BillP]

Note to veteran posters: 'Fierce Sparrow' is the multi-banned Peter Hartmann.

[Guest]

Bill ~ I am wondering if anyone can give me advice on how to upgrade my wheels by putting a 2004 Toyota Corolla engine in my '97 Cadillac Seville STS. Stock is so outdated and uncool. Strictly for old pharts.

hvs

[Guest BillP]

I suppose you want some damn lemonade too!