1930 Peerless standard 246.7 engine

[Guest Zoltan]

I am about to take on the job of rebuilding a 1930 Peerless standard 246.7 straight eight. This will be my first of these, does anyone have information relating to my project?

[edinmass]

There is not much published on that engine. The Creative Workshop in Fort Lauderdale Fl did a 29 two years ago. You could contact them. Your gonna be on your own for everything. You can make valves and guides with ease, also pistons. If you need hard parts you will be in trouble. Basically it's a make everything yourself project. Gaskets can be difficult. Bearings must be made. It's going to take a long time and be more expensive than you think. Not impossible, but not for the first time engine builder. Ed 

Edited April 14, 2017 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Guest Zoltan]

Thank you for your response to my 1930 Peerless engine rebuild inquiry.I gather it will be challenge...I shall proceed with caution.

Zoltan

[Guest Zoltan]

I just noticed the three wheeled toy thing in you listing.You might find mine of interest? You can read about it if you are curious on my website www. http// zoleco.ca

Regards,

Zoltan

[Rusty_OToole]

I thought Peerless straight eights were really bought from Continental? It might ease the parts and information search to know this.

[Spinneyhill]

1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

I thought Peerless straight eights were really bought from Continental? It might ease the parts and information search to know this.

Wikipedia says that the Peerless-designed V8 was dropped in 1930 in favour of a Continental straight eight.

http://uniquecarsandparts.com/lost_marques_peerless.htm

says the Peerless V8 was replaced by a Continental V8 in 1929.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Guest Zoltan]

Yes ,thanks the 1930 Peerless used the continental straight eight,I know that...so I guess it comes down to find Continental parts.

Regards,

Zoltan

[edinmass]

Continental is correct, but it doesn't make it any easier. There are a bunch of obscure continental motors, sixes and eights, all used by obscure makes, and identifying parts when found complicates matters. There is just very little info on these motors, and what you find is often incorrect. If you need hard parts is basically a brick wall. Camshaft, timing gears, rods, ect........means you need a parts motor.......impossible to find. Making pistons and valves isn't too bad. Add in the time into the equation and it's a long drawn out affair. Also, the bolt Ins........distributor, Carb, ect........also very difficult to deal with. Post some photos of the project please. Ed

[ILIKECARS53]

Give Steve Babinsky at Automotive Restorations in New Jersey a call.  He has rebuilt and repaired every engine you can think of including the original Marmon Wasp.

[jeff_a]

On 4/14/2017 at 7:21 PM, Spinneyhill said:

Wikipedia says that the Peerless-designed V8 was dropped in 1930 in favour of a Continental straight eight.

http://uniquecarsandparts.com/lost_marques_peerless.htm

says the Peerless V8 was replaced by a Continental V8 in 1929.

The Peerless 332 Cu. In. V-8 was 1916-1928.The Continental 322 Cu. In. straight-8(12K) appeared in 1929 in the Model 8-125. In 1930-32, a similar engine(13K) was used in the Master and Custom 8 models, and the 246.7 Cu. In. straight-8(17S) in the Standard 8. Despite what the Unique Cars & Parts article says, Peerless never used a Continental V-8, and the new line designed for 1930 by Mr. de Sakhnoffsky was not 3 sixes and an eight -- but 3 eights. The 1929 models were 3 sixes and an eight.

Edited April 20, 2017 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

Zoltan,

   Great to hear that you're working on a engine for a 1930 Peerless Standard 8. The Standard Eight is one of my favorite models from all the ones built by the pioneering company over 32 years. A rare car, too. For 11 years I have worked on a tally of all known Peerlesses, Known Peerless Automobiles In Existence. From it, I deduce that there are only this many of the straight eight Peerlesses that survive:

• 8-125..................7
• Standard 8..........7
• Master 8............13
• Custom 8.............8
• plus an additional 3 or 4 cars where model is still unknown

 

   If you haven't seen it already, there's a Peerless Forum on the AACA Forums. Since the Peerless Forum is now book-length after it began in 2007 --- and there are not any books in circulation about Peerless --- it will have to suffice until one is written. It includes some recent photos and discussions of the Standard Eight. Thanks to edinmass for letting me know about this discussion on the Technical forum.

 

----Jeff

Edited April 15, 2017 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Bud Tierney]

With all things Continental, in your period, the place to start for parts, advice and/or sympathy (most likely in your case) is Monte's, fmly in Chicago but now NW of Chicago, obsolete Cont'l parts dealers.; try

Garrad (Gerry/Jerry) Moon garradmoon@montes@flash.net or montesequipment.com...

P A Ross Machinery in Dallas, longtime Cont'l dealers, have been mentioned as helpful with obsoletes   parossmachinery.com

In researching some old Cont'ls noticed Lakeside--or is it Lakeshore??-- Museum in Muskegon has a web page listing old Cont'l records including repair manuals and such available to researchers, but don't know if they make copies of what they have...

I'm sure EM above is correct re' scarcity, plus these being used in upgrade vehicles, hence not only eagerly sought but understandably hoarded when found...and by all means follow his and others advice to locate consult with others with experience with Cont'l 8s in case they have tricky idiosyncrasies...

Some Cont'ls share parts with many variations of the particular basic engine; unfortunately, yours does not seem to, altho it's hard to tell as the 8s have very skimpy listings in my replacement parts catalogs (a bad sign for finding parts)......if you do decide to email around, just in case some NOS/NORS has been recently unearthed, justoldtrucks has a fair list of profe$$ional  obsolete parts dealers in their Vendors And Restoration Services section

 

 

[carbking]

Zoltan - what information I have states that for the 1930 246.7 engine, Peerless used a Schebler type T carburetor, identification number TX-9. The only good thing about this is that the TX-9 is actually stamped on one side of the carburetor; so if you find one, it can be easily identified. And while identification is easy, finding one is quite difficult; and making it actually function as a carburetor virtually impossible!

 

Jon.

[Bud Tierney]

Ahhhhh...let's have a quiet moment for all the unfairly hollered at parts people, coming up with wrong parts...

Jeffs post came on while I was slowly typing, and something didn't match my old catalogs (he lists12K,13K,17S)..

30 McCord gasket---"Straight 8 1929 (would be model 120 per Std cat)), Master/Custom 1930..Cont'l 14K 33/8x41/2  (12K thru 15K was a more widely used 8 series) (1930 catalog so doesn't show 1931)..

38 Victor gasket---Standard 8 30-31 Cont'l 15S 3x41/2.....8-125 1929 (doesn't appear in Std Cat), Master/Custom 30-32 Cont'l 12K 33/8x41/2

These could be because of factory changes after info acquired by catalog co, by Cont'l for some reason substituting sister engine, engineering dept change, just confusion in the numbers in the various series. Engine parts catalogs don't even agree which engines have which bore/stroke!!!

[Spinneyhill]

3 hours ago, jeff_a said:

The Peerless 332 Cu. In. V-8 was 1916-1928.The Continental 322 Cu. In. straight-8(12K) appeared in 1929 in the Model 8-125. In 1930-32, a similar engine(13K) was used in the Master and Custom 8 models, and the 246.7 Cu. In. straight-8(17S) in the Standard 8. Despite what the Unique Cars & Parts article says, Peerless never used a Continental V-8, and the new line designed for 1930 by Mr. de Sakhnoffsky was not 3 sixes and an eight -- but 3 eights(1929 models were 3 sixes and an eight).

 

Excellent. Thanks for putting the record straight. Perhaps you could edit the Wikipedia entry so everyone would get the story straight!

[Guest Zoltan]

7 hours ago, ILIKECARS53 said:

Give Steve Babinsky at Automotive Restorations in New Jersey a call.  He has rebuilt and repaired every engine you can think of including the original Marmon Wasp.

Thanks for the info!

Zoltan

7 hours ago, ILIKECARS53 said:

Give Steve Babinsky at Automotive Restorations in New Jersey a call.  He has rebuilt and repaired every engine you can think of including the original Marmon Wasp.

 

19 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

 

Excellent. Thanks for putting the record straight. Perhaps you could edit the Wikipedia entry so everyone would get the story straight!

 

     Thanks for the info.

     Zoltan

[Guest Zoltan]

2 hours ago, carbking said:

Zoltan - what information I have states that for the 1930 246.7 engine, Peerless used a Schebler type T carburetor, identification number TX-9. The only good thing about this is that the TX-9 is actually stamped on one side of the carburetor; so if you find one, it can be easily identified. And while identification is easy, finding one is quite difficult; and making it actually function as a carburetor virtually impossible!

 

Jon.

 

Thanks Jon, I have been working on carbs my whole life...that does not frighten me,however the engine parts allocation sounds like it could be an adventure.

Zoltan

[Guest Zoltan]

3 hours ago, Bud Tierney said:

With all things Continental, in your period, the place to start for parts, advice and/or sympathy (most likely in your case) is Monte's, fmly in Chicago but now NW of Chicago, obsolete Cont'l parts dealers.; try

Garrad (Gerry/Jerry) Moon garradmoon@montes@flash.net or montesequipment.com...

P A Ross Machinery in Dallas, longtime Cont'l dealers, have been mentioned as helpful with obsoletes   parossmachinery.com

In researching some old Cont'ls noticed Lakeside--or is it Lakeshore??-- Museum in Muskegon has a web page listing old Cont'l records including repair manuals and such available to researchers, but don't know if they make copies of what they have...

I'm sure EM above is correct re' scarcity, plus these being used in upgrade vehicles, hence not only eagerly sought but understandably hoarded when found...and by all means follow his and others advice to locate consult with others with experience with Cont'l 8s in case they have tricky idiosyncrasies...

Some Cont'ls share parts with many variations of the particular basic engine; unfortunately, yours does not seem to, altho it's hard to tell as the 8s have very skimpy listings in my replacement parts catalogs (a bad sign for finding parts)......if you do decide to email around, just in case some NOS/NORS has been recently unearthed, justoldtrucks has a fair list of profe$$ional  obsolete parts dealers in their Vendors And Restoration Services section

 

 

    Thanks Bud.

    Zoltan

[Guest Zoltan]

3 hours ago, jeff_a said:

Zoltan,

   Great to hear that you're working on a engine for a 1930 Peerless Standard 8. The Standard Eight is one of my favorite models from all the ones built by the pioneering company over 32 years. A rare car, too. For 11 years I have worked on a tally of all known Peerlesses, Known Peerless Automobiles In Existence. From it, I deduce that there are only this many of the straight eight Peerlesses that survive:

• 8-125...........7
• Standard 8...7
• Master 8.......13
• Custom 8......8
• plus an additional 5 or 6 cars where model is still unknown

 

   If you haven't seen it already, there's a Peerless Forum on the AACA Forums. Since the Peerless Forum is now book-length after it began in 2007 --- and there are not any books in circulation about Peerless --- it will have to suffice until one is written. It includes some recent photos and discussions of the Standard Eight. Thanks to edinmass for letting me know about this discussion on the Technical forum.

 

----Jeff

      

     Thanks Jeff.

     Zoltan

[Guest Zoltan]

8 hours ago, ILIKECARS53 said:

Give Steve Babinsky at Automotive Restorations in New Jersey a call.  He has rebuilt and repaired every engine you can think of including the original Marmon Wasp.

  

    Thanks.

Zoltan

[Guest Zoltan]

3 hours ago, Bud Tierney said:

With all things Continental, in your period, the place to start for parts, advice and/or sympathy (most likely in your case) is Monte's, fmly in Chicago but now NW of Chicago, obsolete Cont'l parts dealers.; try

Garrad (Gerry/Jerry) Moon garradmoon@montes@flash.net or montesequipment.com...

P A Ross Machinery in Dallas, longtime Cont'l dealers, have been mentioned as helpful with obsoletes   parossmachinery.com

In researching some old Cont'ls noticed Lakeside--or is it Lakeshore??-- Museum in Muskegon has a web page listing old Cont'l records including repair manuals and such available to researchers, but don't know if they make copies of what they have...

I'm sure EM above is correct re' scarcity, plus these being used in upgrade vehicles, hence not only eagerly sought but understandably hoarded when found...and by all means follow his and others advice to locate consult with others with experience with Cont'l 8s in case they have tricky idiosyncrasies...

Some Cont'ls share parts with many variations of the particular basic engine; unfortunately, yours does not seem to, altho it's hard to tell as the 8s have very skimpy listings in my replacement parts catalogs (a bad sign for finding parts)......if you do decide to email around, just in case some NOS/NORS has been recently unearthed, justoldtrucks has a fair list of profe$$ional  obsolete parts dealers in their Vendors And Restoration Services section

 

 

Thank you for the info.

Zoltan

[Guest Zoltan]

On 2017-04-14 at 2:38 AM, Zoltan said:

I am about to take on the job of rebuilding a 1930 Peerless standard 246.7 straight eight. This will be my first of these, does anyone have information relating to my project?

These are all I have for photos till I go back next week.

[jeff_a]

Nice to see the photos of the engine. Even some serial numbers! You might find the Car serial Number on the floor by the right front door sill. The Standard Eights I know of are in 1. BC{a maroon one}, 2. WA{a beige one}, 3. MN{a black one from the Blackhawk & Harrah Collections}, 4. MO{a green one}, 5. ME, 6. NY, and 7. DENMARK{a dark blue one}.

 

The one in Washington was partially restored by Pistorius Restorations of Florida(www.oldwheel.com) about 2 years ago, 1 of 6 Peerless cars they've restored. Steve Babinski, mentioned by ILIKECARS53, has recently worked on a 1931 Custom 8. Another restorer in FL, The Creative Workshop, whom Ed mentioned, did a full restoration on one of the 1929 Model Eight-125 Peerlesses. If you have 3 minutes sometime, go to youtube & type in "Restoring 1 of 6 1929 Peerless cars". There's a 2 min. video of the restoration by Discover Canada, and captured onscreen near the end is an original General Service Manual -- Continental Motors Corporation booklet. Maybe if you could get a xerox copy of that, it would be useful.

Edited April 16, 2017 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Zoltan, thanks for the photos. From memory, this motor looks like a different series than the 29 eight that the shop in Florida worked on. Looks smaller than the 29. That's why these motors can be so difficult. Engines and the components as well as individual parts appear similar, they are not. 

[Guest Zoltan]

3 hours ago, jeff_a said:

Nice to see the photos of the engine. Even some serial numbers! You might find the Car serial Number on the floor by the right front door sill. The Standard Eights I know of are in 1. BC{a maroon one}, 2. WA{a beige one}, 3. MN{a black one from the Blackhawk & Harrah Collections}, 4. MO{a green one}, 5. ME, 6. NY, and 7. DENMARK{a dark blue one}.

 

The one in Washington was partially restored by Pistorius Restorations of Florida(www.oldwheel.com) about 2 years ago, 1 of 6 Peerless cars they've restored. Steve Babinski, mentioned by ILIKECARS53, has recently worked on a 1931 Custom 8. Another restorer in FL, The Creative Workshop, whom Ed mentioned, did a full restoration on one of the 1929 Model Eight-125 Peerlesses. If you have 3 minutes sometime, go to youtube & type in "Restoring 1 of 6 1929 Peerless cars". There's a 2 min. video of the restoration by Discover Canada, and captured onscreen near the end is an original General Service Manual -- Continental Motors Corporation booklet. Maybe if you could get a xerox copy of that, it would be useful.

 

   Jeff,thanks for your input,yes this is the Maroon one in BC.