Matt Harwood Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) *SOLD* I'm simply helping a client thin out his stock and this is a project he's decided he's never going to get around to finishing, although it is a very worthy car. I love the unusual ones, and this one certainly qualifies: 1963 Impala 2-door hardtop (non-SS) with a 409 dual-quad V8 and 4-speed manual transmission. Options include a factory tachometer and power windows, which is kind of odd until someone pointed out that drag racers would get power windows because they often had to roll down the passenger window to speak to a flag man at the track, although there's no evidence here that this car was raced. It was also originally Satin Silver with a black bench seat interior and experts will note that Satin Silver was a one-year-only color for the Impala. Pretty cool foundation, no? The car has already been disassembled and stripped, the bodywork is done and it's in primer, and yes, I know that you'll probably have to sand it off to see what's going on underneath (please save the comments about how it got wet and now the primer is ruined--it's epoxy), but you shouldn't find any nasty surprises. Floors are solid and ready to go, too. I can't promise it's ready to spray paint, but it isn't going to cost you $40,000 to get the body in shape, either. If you're a good home painter, I bet you can make this car look like a million bucks. Interior is there, but it all needs replaced. I think if this were my car, I'd put in a red interior with the Satin Silver paint and really blow people away. The engine is the original, matching-numbers 409 with dual quads. It has been completely rebuilt but never started, so it needs to be fine-tuned and finished. Block is bored .030 oversize, original forged crank turned to standard, stock rods with press-in pins, new Ross forged aluminum pistons with 11:1 compression. Isky solid lifter camshaft with cam card included. Correct intake manifold, correct carburetors, original 409 dual quad air cleaner, and factory chrome W-shaped valve covers. Entire assembly is painted and detailed. Transmission is also rebuilt and appears to be the original transmission from the car (date codes are correct). Some chassis work done but it should be disassembled and painted. Wheels have been painted and fitted with reproduction bias-ply whitewalls so it's a roller. I don't know if every little tiny part is there, but the important stuff that's unique to the 409 is all there, the rest is pretty commonly available. This is a very worthy car, which, in my professional opinion, could be worth $80-90,000 in completed condition. An awesome combination of options, a popular body style, and very cool colors make this one stand out in a big way. Yes, there's some investment required, but all the expensive stuff is pretty much done and it could be finished by one of you talented guys with time and energy. An A-list early muscle car and a great project with financial upside. How often do you get a chance like that? Asking $26,500 and the seller is motivated. Car is located in Falconer, NY and has good title. Thanks for reading! Edited August 8, 2016 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 That looks to be a great car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allcars Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 That will make somebody a real fine 409! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real61ss Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Looks like a nice project, Is there any chance of seeing a photo of the numbers stamped on the front engine pad? BTW, Sateen Silver was available from 1960 to 64. Thanks Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) That is going to make a beautiful car. Here is mine that I did a frame on when I got back from NAM. This was my very 1st car show at the Detroit's Autorama in 1977. You had to be invited. Edited June 8, 2016 by countrytravler (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Articles that I have in my office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 63 09 car 4 speed. https://youtu.be/pU6IYFVKuQo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 409 air cleaners. 340 hp top left 400 hp top right 425 hp bottom o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Anybody? Very motivated. VERY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Edited for improper content & rules violation. Edited July 3, 2016 by George Smolinski (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 10 minutes ago, George Smolinski said: Seems salty for what you're getting. Yes it MAY be worth $80-90K restored to #1 condition, but at that value, there better be a stack of documentation showing past owners, original dealer paperwork, receipts for all the work done so far and ALL correct dated components, not just the big pieces. You also don't give the engine ID code or have a photo of it. You mention "numbers matching", but that tells nothing. The important question and answer is "Is the engine, trans, & rear end original to the car? To me it sounds like your client got into it, realized if he puts $100-120K into it, he'll have that $80-90K car you mention. Now he wants to cut his losses & move on. Lastly, it's not even an SS. All the above may be why there are no nibbles or bites. If you follow the 58 to 65 Chev, they are bringing a hefty sum. HECK! 10 years ago, you couldn't give away a 58. Seen one sell for 250.000. 409s are fetching up to 10,000 just for the engine. Rotted out 63 has sold for 20,000 with 6 bangers in them. These cars are real hot for the slammers. It will sell for near the asking price. If I didn't have 5 builds going on, I would jump all over it. Cost about 50 to nut and bolt it. My 63 was just a Impala also and it sold for 12 in 79. And it was just a 327 300 glide car. This car was worse than the one advertised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Edited for improper content & rules violation. Edited July 3, 2016 by George Smolinski (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, George Smolinski said: It's been for sale for a month on this site & probably elsewhere. Who knows how long it's been for sale before that. Looks like people aren't exactly lining up to buy it. If it was such a good deal, it would be gone already. Summer usually is a bad month to sell project cars. I could part this car out and pull more than he is asking. I know, been doing it for 40 plus years. This site is probably the worst site to sell cars like this but you never know. CL has been the best for selling cars and parts for us but then the brakes are turned on with the buyers during summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Edited for improper content & rules violation. Edited July 3, 2016 by George Smolinski (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Well, first of all, Matt has stated that there's a motivated seller, so the price stated isn't the price that's going to be paid in the end. Thus, any discussion of "is it worth it" is a moot point. Secondly, Matt has previously stated on this forum that very few of his sales come from this venue, in the single digits percentage wise I believe. So, pot shots at cars advertised, whether it be condition or price, are more easily tolerated than by someone new posting who expects the world to beat a path to one's door to be a buyer. Whew, that's a convoluted sentence that my English teacher would fuss at for sure..... Thirdly, well, there's really no thirdly, not my kind of car, but someone out there is drooling over it and thinking it over. Good luck with sale..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Good morning George. I am not a MOPAR guy. Ask anybody on here that knows me. I'm helping a widow that lost here husband with the business. They had about 150 Mopar cars and trucks when I started here 51/2 years ago. Didn't even now what a Mopar was until then. I come from a GM background. My dad was one of the engineers that developed the W (348-409} at the Tech center in Warren MI. My dad would bring home Muscle cars almost every night and his job was to take that car and go street racing on Woodward Ave between Pontiac and Detroit, Telegraph in Redford and Dearborn and I96 between Redford and Milford where the GM test track is. He would report the results to his bosses. He would also prep the car that would be in some of the car magazines.They hired my dad because he was a professional driver. He drove in Nascar in the early 50s. He would take me and a couple of my friends to go street racing and then I got the bug when he would let me drive some of them when I was 14. That would be in 1966. We had Duntove and Delorian work on cars in our driveway. I have owned about 200 GM cars ranging in years from 1959 to 1970. Pontiac SDs , Z11 62 and 63 Chevs, 60s Corvettes, Monty Carlo SS 454s, Buick Grand Sports, Ram Air GTOs ETC. Not too many people have this kind of bragging rights. Even owned a few Corvair Spiders and Yenkos. I have worked on cars since I was 8 and started restoring cars as a business in 75 when I got back from Nam from my one car garage. That 63 was my 2nd frame on resto. So, that is part of my background. I probably have flipped over 1000 cars. The 63 car at the present asking is not for a car that you're going to make money on flipping it. The buyer probably will buy it as a father-son project. Or a person will buy this because he can not afford a 100,000 car. He will buy this and over a 5 to 10 years project putting this car together. That person can spend 5 to 10 a year putting the car together. Or you will have an investor that will buy this and money will not be an object. It happens, this is what I have seen for the last 5 years running this business. Edited July 2, 2016 by countrytravler (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) And on the subject, I should buy this car and part it out. Ask anybody on here that parting out a car-truck in most cases will bring in more $. I have sold a couple of 68 Cudas that we could have made more money parting them out. The 33 and 34 Mopars do not bring much money and we sold them as a whole car. One example, a 34 Dodge 4 door sedan that looked like a parts car. Advertise it for parts and a customer starts to buy parts and as I started stripping it, it turned out to be a nice car. I stopped right there on parting it out. Sold the car for 6500 and I could have more than doubled that parting it out. So, in my friends business, it's not all about the money. This will be my last response on the post and after today, I will take it down all of my inserts if the mediators don't beat me to it. Not fair to Matts Ad. Dave PS. On one of my walls in my office. Edited July 2, 2016 by countrytravler (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Join my FB 409 stuff Lot of cool stuff that I am involved in. https://www.facebook.com/groups/406019856199113/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 Meh, whatever. Everyone knows the loudest jeers come from the cheapest seats. No surprise there. Everyone else, thank you for the kind words. This is a nice car worthy of restoration. The owner had a major life event change his outlook and is liquidating everything. I have five of his other cars, all AACA Senior Grand National prize winners, NCRS Top Flight, Bloomington Gold certified, or marque club award winners. He does 100-point cars, and that's all he does. This car was getting a show-quality restoration when his life changed and all work stopped immediately. The shop put the body in primer to protect the bare metal, which explains the hasty primer job. Some reassembly was done to facilitate transport. I'll get numbers on the engine, which I should have done when I was with the car, but everyone was jittery about unwrapping someone else's expensive engine, so I didn't. I'll ask them to do it. If you want to talk to the guys who were doing the work, I'm happy to put you in touch with them so you can ask what, exactly, is going on under the skin and question them about their credentials. This is the only place this car is currently advertised because I thought it would be a good fit for someone with talent and time, and there are quite a few guys like that here. It'll go on eBay shortly and in Hemmings and it'll sell at a reasonable price for everyone because the seller is, as I said, very motivated. There's a 1955 Ford Crown Vic with a glass top and a show-quality restored chassis available, too, but I'm not going to bother listing it here. Once again, I'm reminded why putting cars here is a mistake. That makes me sad. Thanks for the support. Someone's going to get an awesome car that will take blood, sweat, and tears, plus a big pile of cash, but in the end, they'll have a very worthy car with an awesome pedigree and they probably won't be upside-down on it when it's done. That's pretty cool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 This car will make a great car. Join this group if you are uninformed about the X frame and the big W engines. Great group and its free. X frame cars from a couple of hundred to 6 figures. Free to join. http://www.348-409.com/forum/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Edited for improper content & rules violation. Edited July 3, 2016 by George Smolinski (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 George, you'll note that I don't ask anyone to edit or remove comments that aren't conducive to me selling a car. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm happy to have them all. When they're constructive, everyone learns something. I can't possibly be an expert on every single car, so having feedback here is always useful. I welcome it. You can certainly petition the admins to have me and my posts removed, and I'll gladly abide by their decision. Go ahead and make the complaint and let's see what happens... It appears that somewhere along the line I did something to offend you and now you grind axes whenever I post. I can't fathom what I did to offend you other than being a dealer, and that's puzzling. I've been here since 2000 and I only turned to being a dealer in the last 5 years, so a majority of my time in the hobby is as a hobbyist with problems, solutions, joys, and frustrations just like everyone else. I kind of fell into this as a business by accident and now it's what I do for a living and sometimes it's awesome and sometimes it really sucks, just like any job. And while a lot of folks inexplicably feel that dealers are ruining the hobby, I do sincerely try to remain a hobbyist first and foremost. I never forget that this is purely for fun and I always want people to have a good experience buying a car from me. However, it's also the kind of job that everyone feels they could do. It certainly seems that if you go to enough car shows and read enough magazines, you, too, can be an expert and have an expert opinion on values and marketing and selling cars. Sadly, that's probably not the case. I've probably sold more cars in the last year than you have in your entire life. That's not a boast, simply a demonstration that experience is a powerful teacher. I've met more people, done more deals, and experienced more aspects of the hobby than most folks, and I feel that I have a better view of what's right and what isn't, because I do it constantly, every single day, in order to keep the lights on. People such as yourself, meaning guys who have been in the hobby for a while, just LOVE to tell me how crazy my prices are and how the cars will never sell and how I don't seem to know anything about anything. Yet the cars keep selling, my business keeps a roof over my head, my kids keep eating, and everything turns out OK. I'm not getting rich doing this, but we're not starving here, either. Still, it does seem strange to me that so many guys read a magazine and figure that they're experts. What if I showed up where you work and started taking pot-shots at how you do your job? It would be pretty obvious pretty quickly that your knowledge exceeded mine in that area, and you'd probably get fed up with me being a jerk in fairly short order. You'd also probably dismiss me as an idiot who didn't know s from s, to borrow your term. So here we are. For whatever awful thing I've done to make you hate me, I'm sorry. If it's merely by existing and having a job that's part of your hobby, well, I'm not willing to change that, so tough luck there. I've always felt that there's enough pie for everyone in this hobby and everyone likes something different, so it's a good thing there are different kinds of pies. It appears that you feel otherwise, but unfortunately, the days of buying $35 Model As from the farmer up the street are long gone. I'm sorry the hobby has passed you by economically, but dealers don't make the cars expensive. That happens all by itself and isn't unique to collector cars. I think anyone reading this thread can make up their own minds about the participants. I'll let them do that now. Enjoy your hobby. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Matt Maybe this thing started when he said , it seems a little salty!. Then I jumped in to defend. If that is the case, I apologize. I think it is disrespectful to come in and start knocking the persons ad. I have never done that to anybody with my 5000 plus post in 5 years. If I say anything, it's to help the ad. You can not do this with mag ads, Hemmings, CL, and or E-bay during a sell. It has not sold yet! No nibbles! need stacks of paperwork etc. I think that it came across that he had a bad attitude about this car. That is how I took it. MATT-You do not know me and I don't know you. You have not bought from me and I have not bought from you. That is as far as our relation has gone. Just from the keyboard. So no favoritism can be called here. I have followed Matt as well as he has followed me. I think. He comes across as a real professional. Not like a car lot salesman that runs a, Buy here Pay here) car lot. Plus, I will comment on cars that I know. Most muscles cars I do know and especially the 60s Chev that I have owned over a hundred. If this was a Packard, I wouldn't have a clue what the car is or what its worth. But I know about the factory with the test track up in Utica MI. I drove around that track in my blue 63 during a car show that was held in 77-78. It was a cool show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 (edited) Edited for improper content & rules violation. Edited July 3, 2016 by George Smolinski (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 The phrase "very motivated" doesn't make it appear as a wondering why it's not selling, it's just a way of saying look, if you're interested at all in this car, let's talk seriously and a fair offer will get it. This whole thread is an example of the reason that I think the "For Sale" threads should be locked. That is, there can be the original posting, and the original poster can change or add to the posting, but NO ONE ELSE can comment. If someone wants further information, or wants to let the seller know how much smarter one thinks they are than them, then email, call, or PM, but don't argue on the posting itself. It serves no purpose....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 A fleet of 1963 Florida Highway Patrol 409 340 HP powerglide Biscayne 2-door sedans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 (edited) 409 engines are selling for. 16,000 to 20,000. A Z11 engine was for sale at 65,000 recently. The Z11 was the rarest 409s made. Check the clip with Junior Johnson with his 63 Chev Nascar. http://r.ebay.com/oPj4sQ http://r.ebay.com/ob85x4 http://r.ebay.com/gPrEud Edited July 3, 2016 by countrytravler (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Plus, this is the slow season with people vacationing and all the crazy fires and flooding going on around the country. Plus this is election year and also the bad money rate from Canada and overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 7 hours ago, George Smolinski said: Edited for improper content & rules violation. There you go boys. I cleaned up my act & I'll try to follow the rules more closely in the future. I sure hope everyone else does also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 I'm sure the moderators on this forum are fully qualified to teach kindergarten classes when they're done here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 I guess there's no pleasing some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roysboystoys Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 21 hours ago, trimacar said: The phrase "very motivated" doesn't make it appear as a wondering why it's not selling, it's just a way of saying look, if you're interested at all in this car, let's talk seriously and a fair offer will get it. This whole thread is an example of the reason that I think the "For Sale" threads should be locked. That is, there can be the original posting, and the original poster can change or add to the posting, but NO ONE ELSE can comment. If someone wants further information, or wants to let the seller know how much smarter one thinks they are than them, then email, call, or PM, but don't argue on the posting itself. It serves no purpose....... Most of the other forums I participate in do not allow discussions on for sale posts. We have a private message system. Someone can start their own thread if a discussion is needed. The one forum that does allow comments has been only positive , never anything negative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) Here is what an X frame looks like for the 58 to 64. 65 went to a side frame. Edited July 5, 2016 by countrytravler (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Shared to my FB 409 forum: https://www.facebook.com/groups/406019856199113/ Shared to the 1958 to 1964 FB forum: https://www.facebook.com/groups/174333742653749/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) Hi Matt Go join this forum (http://www.348-409.com/) They have a post for cars for sale and it's free to join. I think that they have about 20,000 members over there. One example of a 61 Chev with a 348 350. Edited July 5, 2016 by countrytravler (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillP Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Any guesses on how long before the OP posts his next car for sale here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 On 7/5/2016 at 0:39 PM, BillP said: Any guesses on how long before the OP posts his next car for sale here? Anytime soon I hope. He has great cars when he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61-63 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 As far as this fellow has taken this car and what he has, and what he is asking, I would buy this if I had the room and wasn't involved in trying to finish two cars already. I would like to have a 409 someday and when/if I am ready for one I sure hope a project like this one comes on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I would love to make a clone Z11 car from the car that is for sale here.This is the perfect candidate. I clone this car in 1980. I probably started the trend of cloning. I was afraid of getting sued back then because it was unheard of. Its a 1962 bubble top Chev that Hayden Proffitt won the 1962 Winter Nationals in 1962. he is still around today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 Not that it even matters anymore, as this car is DOA on the market thanks to this conversation and Google, but here are the stamping and casting numbers from the 409 block. Casting number 3830814 = W block 1963-1964 409 cubic inch Stamping number T0402QB T = Tonawanda assembly plant 0402 = April 2 assembly date QB = 1963 Impala 409 425 HP 4-speed L80 dual quad Exhaust manifold casting number 3822925 = 1961-1964 Impala 409/425 HP cast iron exhaust manifold 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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