Top Speed for '39 Special all standard

[Kev Draper]

Ha! Thanks for the advice - ear muffs or headphones! To increase top speed Someone else has advised to look for new ratio gear box instead of a Borg Warner overdrive. Any experience of these options Ben?

[1939_Buick]

8 hours ago, Kev Draper said:

Ha! Thanks for the advice - ear muffs or headphones! To increase top speed Someone else has advised to look for new ratio gear box instead of a Borg Warner overdrive. Any experience of these options Ben?

Top gear is 1:1 in your Buick. 

Due the torque ball design fitting any other gear box, other the '39 is a lot of engineering work. But a little easer in '39 compared to other Buick's due to the short jack shaft (1 year only design)

[buick looks fine for 39]

Good afternoon gentlemen,

I'm a day late and a dollar short as usual, but I found a British road test dated March 3rd 1939 from Autocar.  I quote "The speedometer of this particular car read 1mph slow at 30, was dead accurate at 40, and 1.8mph fast at 50, rising to 3mph at 60 and 4.2 at 70, whilst it showed it showed a highest reading of about 92 during the the maximum speed run." The subject test car was a Buick series 40 saloon. I'm guessing the 60 series had the same speedometer profile.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                   Thanks

                                                                                                       Leif

[Rock10]

27 minutes ago, buick looks fine for 39 said:

Good afternoon gentlemen,

I'm a day late and a dollar short as usual, but I found a British road test dated March 3rd 1939 from Autocar.  I quote "The speedometer of this particular car read 1mph slow at 30, was dead accurate at 40, and 1.8mph fast at 50, rising to 3mph at 60 and 4.2 at 70, whilst it showed it showed a highest reading of about 92 during the the maximum speed run." The subject test car was a Buick series 40 saloon. I'm guessing the 60 series had the same speedometer profile.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                   Thanks

                                                                                                       Leif

Wow 😮

[2carb40]

On 8/1/2021 at 6:51 AM, Kev Draper said:

Ha! Thanks for the advice - ear muffs or headphones! To increase top speed Someone else has advised to look for new ratio gear box instead of a Borg Warner overdrive. Any experience of these options Ben?

I switched my '39 Spec cpe from 4.40/1 rear gear to 3.9/1 and it was like a different car altogether. Quieter, smoother running with the lowered rpms. I acquired a 3.6/1 from a '39 Century drum to drum, but dont know if the work is worth .3 ratio difference. I also have a '40 Super that still has the factory standard 4.40/1 rear gear ratio. Shifting to second in the middle of an intersection is an annoying driving distraction. I just purchased a 3.4/1 removed from a 1955 Century for it. The gear ratio in the Spec transmission in first gear, as stated in Buick print material, is lower than the models with the 320 engine as well. Presumably becuz of the torque difference available for takeoff from stop. Something to bear in mind when changing how fast you can go is how fast you can stop. Specials had brakes with less surface area than Cent&Roadmasters! You can upgrade a Spec with the larger drums but also hafta change backing plates to match the deeper drums. I have heard prices for OD conversions run pretty steep. Much simpler and less labor if you can find complete assembly,(drum to drum with driveshaft attached, rather than differential alone. Good luck!

Edited August 15, 2021 by 2carb40 (see edit history)

[Buick35]

Kev,Do you know what year and model will install in my 35 40 series other than doing the overdrive thing?If there is such a thing.Thanks,Greg.

[Kev Draper]

4 hours ago, 2carb40 said:

I switched my '39 Spec cpe from 4.40/1 rear gear to 3.9/1 and it was like a different car altogether. Quieter, smoother running with the lowered rpms. I acquired a 3.6/1 from a '39 Century drum to drum, but dont know if the work is worth .3 ratio difference. I also have a '40 Super that still has the factory standard 4.40/1 rear gear ratio. Shifting to second in the middle of an intersection is an annoying driving distraction. I just purchased a 3.4/1 removed from a 1955 Century for it. The gear ratio in the Spec transmission, as stated in Buick print material, is lower than the models with the 320 engine as well. Presumably becuz of the torque difference available for takeoff from stop. Something to bear in mind when changing how fast you can go is how fast you can stop. Specials had brakes with less surface area than Cent&Roadmasters! You can upgrade a Spec with the larger drums but also hafta change backing plates to match the deeper drums. I have heard prices for OD conversions run pretty steep. Much simpler and less labor if you can find complete assembly, rather than differential alone. Good luck!

I’ve received lots of advice but This is the most useful response I have received - many thanks 2carb40!  Where would be the best sites to advertise ‘ wanted 3.9/1 ratio gearbox’ 

[2carb40]

3 hours ago, Kev Draper said:

I’ve received lots of advice but This is the most useful response I have received - many thanks 2carb40!  Where would be the best sites to advertise ‘ wanted 3.9/1 ratio gearbox’ 

Dave T 763-427-3460 keep trying-NO ANSWER  MACHINE!  Not me! Where are you located? This is from Minnesota, USA 55316 Like the American pickers show Mike says "What's a crazy price that would convince an arthritic old man to remove&sell a 3.9 or the even more rare 3.6 Cent?" Not shipping out of lower 48 states! Pm if you absolutely hafta. Also have a NOS TORQUE BALL as a separate issue. Sorry, remove if needed! Greg J. PS; what were we.......

Edited August 14, 2021 by 2carb40 (see edit history)

[1939_Buick]

10 hours ago, Kev Draper said:

I’ve received lots of advice but This is the most useful response I have received - many thanks 2carb40!  Where would be the best sites to advertise ‘ wanted 3.9/1 ratio gearbox’ 

Its a 3.9 differential you want. Not gearbox-transmission.  Standard on series 60 Century & optional on series 40 special. Either the diff centre or a complete diff, brakes, shafts etc.

As other posts, the 3.9 cw&p are  1 year only parts and very hard to find.

You can try to advertise here and the '39 facebook group, but success far from certain

Edited August 14, 2021 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[Barney Eaton]

Below are comparison photos of a 39 Special and 39 Century .....  note the difference between the back of the front fender and the front of the door. ...the bottom of the engine compartment side cover 

is also a good comparison.    I do not have a picture with side mounts.     The pictures were taken at a meet in St Louis at least 10 years ago...

the last picture is my 39 Century with side mounts, not a great photo but the back of the side mount extends past the back of the fender

Edited August 14, 2021 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[Kev Draper]

16 hours ago, 2carb40 said:

Dave T 763-427-3460 keep trying-NO ANSWER  MACHINE!  Not me! Where are you located? This is from Minnesota, USA 55316 Like the American pickers show Mike says "What's a crazy price that would convince an arthritic old man to remove&sell a 3.9 or the even more rare 3.6 Cent?" Not shipping out of lower 48 states! Pm if you absolutely hafta. Also have a NOS TORQUE BALL as a separate issue. Sorry, remove if needed! Greg J. PS; what were we.......

Hi Dave T or Greg J - not sure which name is correct? Thanks for your suggestion - much appreciated. The 39 Buick is my first classic car and I’m just realising that cars of this era were not meant to go much faster than 50mph without straining the engine. I’m not mechanicaly technical at all so It’s a bit hard for this simple Englishman to fully understand understand US lingo - sorry - but I think what you’re saying is you may consider removing a 3.9 differential and/ or 3.6 century part from your 1939 Buick Special and also torq ball (why not ? - I’m a pragmatist type not a purist) and selling to me, if the price was sufficiently attractive to you? But overall, you don’t want to risk any shipping to any US state in the north?

Hope this is correct? 
Being based in England, I could transfer funds to a solicitor local for you both to hold in escrow - ie. until your solicitor approves transfer. If you have an alternative suggestion I’m happy to accommodate your preferred method of payment transfer. It’s in both our interests to ensure we both feel safe. Can you pls give me a clue - what price would be sufficiently attractive? I could throw in a free stay in England in our house as a family guest!! - 66, Bath Road, Keynsham, Bristol, BS31 1SP - UK 

the time difference: London is 6 hrs ahead of Minnesota. 
regards Kev Draper Mbl. 00 44 7810 343084

Edited August 15, 2021 by Kev Draper
Small typos and added phone No. (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Dave T. is a guy in Minnesota who is not on the forum but who has a lot of parts. His name often comes up at times like these.

 

These guys are referring to a 3.9-1 or a 3.6-1 crownwheel and pinion, that will fit in a Buick Special, but can typically be found in a Buick Century. There are many more Buick Specials floating around with their original 4.44-1 ratio than there are crownwheel and pinion sets with the faster 3.9-1 or 3.6-1 ratios. Those parts can be very difficult to source. Dave T (mentioned above) would be more likely to have it than anyone else I suspect.

 

Yes, 50MPH was considered pretty fast in the US in those days. The 1936 Pontiac Shop Manual says something like "Studies have shown most people drive their cars 35 to 40 miles per hour". Most of our roads before the war were not such that they could support sustained high speed. There was still a lot of dirt and gravel, rough expansion joints in the concrete highways where they existed. Oh sure, some makes advertised high speed, and may have entered some specially prepared cars in races, or even had some "hot" model that would go pretty fast. The Buick Century claimed 100MPH. But they also knew nobody would do it regularly. Speed limits were quite low, and then got really low during the war (to save fuel). Also, Americans didn't like to shift. Model T Fords with their epicyclic setup didn't require much training, but unsynchronized gearboxes were tough for average people. A car's worth was often judged in those days on how much you could lug it around in high gear without downshifting. The automakers could optimize for this by putting in an an extremely slow crownwheel and pinion, knowing full well the owner would most likely never have the opportunity to overwind the engine very long before he had to slow down due to bends or just a terrible road surface. After synchronized gearboxes arrived, the preference for slow gearing and lugging the car around in high gear inexplicably persisted for decades.

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[2carb40]

Just to clarify! I am Greg J. My two 55 Buick parts cars are stored at a farm where Dave T. stores a wonderful hoard of 36-41 mostly, parts cars. I have two acres, two kids, a wife and seven Buick project cars, so living close by Dave has been a blessing/curse for me! I do have my own hoard, as projects need parts. Dave T. has been one of many sources I've had to 'mine' for goodies. No worries about shipping has made my" eyes bigger than stomach" on more than one occasion, but it's only money, right? Mine are usually only long stories, sorry. Anyway, I have some extra parts for these projects, as a inevitably, I see something and don't remember I already bought one of those dangitt! PM if curious, Thanx! 2carb40 aka Greg J.

[2carb40]

16 hours ago, Kev Draper said:

Hi Dave T or Greg J - not sure which name is correct? Thanks for your suggestion - much appreciated. The 39 Buick is my first classic car and I’m just realising that cars of this era were not meant to go much faster than 50mph without straining the engine. I’m not mechanicaly technical at all so It’s a bit hard for this simple Englishman to fully understand understand US lingo - sorry - but I think what you’re saying is you may consider removing a 3.9 differential and/ or 3.6 century part from your 1939 Buick Special and also torq ball (why not ? - I’m a pragmatist type not a purist) and selling to me, if the price was sufficiently attractive to you? But overall, you don’t want to risk any shipping to any US state in the north?

Hope this is correct? 
Being based in England, I could transfer funds to a solicitor local for you both to hold in escrow - ie. until your solicitor approves transfer. If you have an alternative suggestion I’m happy to accommodate your preferred method of payment transfer. It’s in both our interests to ensure we both feel safe. Can you pls give me a clue - what price would be sufficiently attractive? I could throw in a free stay in England in our house as a family guest!! - 66, Bath Road, Keynsham, Bristol, BS31 1SP - UK 

the time difference: London is 6 hrs ahead of Minnesota. 
regards Kev Draper Mbl. 00 44 7810 343084

Just the prospect of a place to stay where I've thought about going often is huge! I mentioned the NOS TORQUE BALL as 1939 is a one year only part not being reproduced at this time. A gentleman is posting for any used take-outs, as he attempts to come up with a viable repro(haven't heard of a success there yet, unfortunately).  I will consider once again what I'm able to do going forward. I've developed osteo-arthritis in the knuckles of all fingers, both hands. Yay.  So, that's my favorite whine these daze! Fastenal is a company I've used in the past with fabulous pricing and no damage shipping. If your representative is east of MN geographically or South it would be inexpensive. COVID caused them to stop recently, but I think they resumed currently.  The 3.6/1 rear is from a 1939 Century and still has the larger drum assemblies attached. The 3.9/1 is currently under/attached to my coupe. I jumped at it when it became available, but a little reflection on the multiple times in&out with it as I found driveline(trans brgs,clutch )etc! Fix a brg noise, find another! With only .3 difference between 3.9&3.6 I found little mental or physical strength to switch it out,the old "if it ain't broke don't fix it till it is!"came into play! Your too new to private message me so I will pm you and arrange further communication. Please be patient,as I am old, but I am slow! Best, Greg J.

 

[buick looks fine for 39]

Good afternoon gentlemen,

I'm a day late and a dollar short as usual, but I found a British road test dated March 3rd 1939 from Autocar.  I quote "The speedometer of this particular car read 1mph slow at 30, was dead accurate at 40, and 1.8mph fast at 50, rising to 3mph at 60 and 4.2 at 70, whilst it showed it showed a highest reading of about 92 during the the maximum speed run." The subject test car was a Buick series 40 saloon. I'm guessing the 60 series had the same speedometer profile.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                   Thanks

                                                                                                       Leif

[buick looks fine for 39]

Good evening gentleman,

 

If you're looking for a 3.9 rear end try the family of Bob Henderson. They recently posted photos of some 39 parts for sale and I think Bob told at one time he had an extra 3.9 rear end. Bob died 4-5 months ago and the family is trying to liquidate some surplus parts.

                                                                                        Anyway it's worth a try

                                                                                          Thanks Leif

                                                                                         

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kev Draper]

7 hours ago, buick looks fine for 39 said:

Good evening gentleman,

 

If you're looking for a 3.9 rear end try the family of Bob Henderson. They recently posted photos of some 39 parts for sale and I think Bob told at one time he had an extra 3.9 rear end. Bob died 4-5 months ago and the family is trying to liquidate some surplus parts.

                                                                                        Anyway it's worth a try

                                                                                          Thanks Leif

                                                                                         

Great - thank you Leif. I shall search through facebook posts try and find the advert. Any idea how long ago Leif - or what name the family used?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[2carb40]

Greetings Kev I sent you a private message. Lemme know if you need to know how to get to it.

 

[buick looks fine for 39]

Hello Kevin, Bob Henderson's original post was 11/17/2020 The title was "Surplus 1939 mostly special parts-used and a few new" I responded last on 8/8/21.  Bob's post was on this  Pre-war Buick Forum site

                                                                             Thanks

                                                                                 Leif 

[2carb40]

Purchase details pending for my near perfect 1939 3.6/1 ratio to ship to Kev D. Wish us luck. Thanx!

[2carb40]

Thought I'd better add photo b4 spraying, as spray can appear as  orange tint possibly mistaken for surface rust,NOT!This what I use to preserve 'bare' gears that won't have lube for a trip to UK. 2nd pic ready to strap to pallet.

Edited August 19, 2021 by 2carb40 (see edit history)

[2carb40]

Back from John Deere dealership with whopper of a pallet to cut down to strap 39 rear end assy for shipping. Have to cut it down in size a bit.

[Kev Draper]

56 minutes ago, 2carb40 said:

Back from John Deere dealership with whopper of a pallet to cut down to strap 39 rear end assy for shipping. Have to cut it down in size a bit.

Making good progress- exciting! 

[Kev Draper]

On 8/19/2021 at 3:56 AM, buick looks fine for 39 said:

Hello Kevin, Bob Henderson's original post was 11/17/2020 The title was "Surplus 1939 mostly special parts-used and a few new" I responded last on 8/8/21.  Bob's post was on this  Pre-war Buick Forum site

                                                                             Thanks

                                                                                 Leif 

I received your response Leif - thank you. However, I am moving forward with a purchase of rear end from twocarb40.

I still need a water pump so I will try and find Bobs original post from 11/17/2020. Hope Elizebeth will know what I’m talking about 

[buick looks fine for 39]

Congratulations Kevin you scored!

                   Thanks

                    Leif

[Kev Draper]

On 8/1/2021 at 9:38 PM, 1939_Buick said:

Top gear is 1:1 in your Buick. 

Due the torque ball design fitting any other gear box, other the '39 is a lot of engineering work. But a little easer in '39 compared to other Buick's due to the short jack shaft (1 year only design)

Just to let you know that Twocarb40 took pity on this naive English newcomer to the wonderful Buick family and has agreed to sell me a rare 3.6/1 diff. He is currently crating it up ready for me to price / organise the shipping from Minnesota to England.

He also kindly offered to sell a NOS TORQUE BALL, but Im not sure if I will need this in addition to the Century 3.6/1 diff. What do you think, what would you advise?

[2carb40]

Suggest inspecting the existing torque ball when the rear end is changed out for the 3.6/1. Only definitive way to check condition is to visually inspect. No pressure on purchase just letting you know it's available as replacement or spare.

[Bloo]

I've got no dog in this race, but isn't this an NLA part that someone is currently attempting to rebuild or reproduce due to unavailability? If so, it sounds like an opportunity that should not be passed up. Someone correct me if I am confusing some other year of torque ball.

[Kev Draper]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

I've got no dog in this race, but isn't this an NLA part that someone is currently attempting to rebuild or reproduce due to unavailability? If so, it sounds like an opportunity that should not be passed up. Someone correct me if I am confusing some other year of torque ball.

Thanks Bloo. Thanks for chipping in and making comment. I’ve decided to buy torque ball from 2carb40 and he’s gonna crate it and ship to UK along with 3.6/1 rear end. 
PS. Do they still race dogs in your neck of the woods??

[Bloo]

HAHA no... but they used to.

[1939_Buick]

4 hours ago, Kev Draper said:

Thanks Bloo. Thanks for chipping in and making comment. I’ve decided to buy torque ball from 2carb40 and he’s gonna crate it and ship to UK along with 3.6/1 rear end. 
PS. Do they still race dogs in your neck of the woods??

 

8 hours ago, Kev Draper said:

Just to let you know that Twocarb40 took pity on this naive English newcomer to the wonderful Buick family and has agreed to sell me a rare 3.6/1 diff. He is currently crating it up ready for me to price / organise the shipping from Minnesota to England.

He also kindly offered to sell a NOS TORQUE BALL, but I'm not sure if I will need this in addition to the Century 3.6/1 diff. What do you think, what would you advise?

Well worth buying the Torque Ball (if a reasonable price). Very hard to get.

From a 39Buick facebook group post a year ago your car had work done on the torque ball

 

From a conversation with Mark Webb(on the forum) a few weeks ago has not progressed much on the rebuilding of torque balls

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[Kev Draper]

36 minutes ago, 1939_Buick said:

 

Well worth buying the Torque Ball (if a reasonable price). Very hard to get.

From a 39Buick facebook group post a year ago your car had work done on the torque ball

 

From a conversation with Mark Webb(on the forum) a few weeks ago has not progressed much on the rebuilding of torque balls

 

I dont have any details on the chap who last owned my new acquisition, so if you have his details that would be great?

I have agreed to pay 2carb40 $300 for his torque ball....seems fair enough but Im just a beginner at this.

I assume Mark Webb is a mechanic on a mission to rebuild torque balls for the numerous Buick owners who need them? A high demand yet low supply situation which if correct, means that 2carb40 is looking after me very well

Im trying to get hold of water pump for the old girl. The current one has too much play and hot water is leaking.

 

[Larry Schramm]

3 hours ago, 1939_Buick said:

From a conversation with Mark Webb(on the forum) a few weeks ago has not progressed much on the rebuilding of torque balls

 

If you need someone to rebuild your torque ball, contact me PM and I will give you the information on the machine shop in the Detroit area that rebuilt the torque ball for my '15 truck.  Not cheap, but worth every penny. They do great work.  IMO.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[1939_Buick]

22 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

If you need someone to rebuild your torque ball, contact me PM and I will give you the information on the machine shop in the Detroit area that rebuilt the torque ball for my '15 truck.  Not cheap, but worth every penny. They do great work.  IMO.

The '39's S40 & S60 are a 1 year only design and very different to other years. Have a fabric-rubber liner. In 1940 they went back to the 1938 design. A good number of the 1 year only '39 designs failed badly.

 

Edit

Good images here:-https://forums.aaca.org/topic/337629-1939-buick-torque-ball-lining-replacement/

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

49 minutes ago, 1939_Buick said:

The '39's S40 & S60 are a 1 year only design and very different to other years. Have a fabric-rubber liner. In 1940 they went back to the 1938 design. A good number of the 1 year only '39 designs failed badly.

 

Edit

Good images here:-https://forums.aaca.org/topic/337629-1939-buick-torque-ball-lining-replacement/

 

 

Here is the rebuild of a the joint for a 1915 Buick.  This is the type of rebuilt for a worn out joint.  These are pictures of a good joint that needed to be taken apart and cleaned.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[2carb40]

Hey Kev Back at it again. Kinda hot for an old guy, but cooler than it's been. Got a wood pallet that's a bit better ft than first one. Pulling one aprt to stretch this second one. Man, someone was went wild with the air nailer with cement coated nails! Sending some photos of pallets so ya won't think I'm just goofin' off. Thought U might want 2 C the NOS TORQUE ball also.

 

[Kev Draper]

Thanks for the update Gregg....good to hear from you.

Im very lucky to have found an American Classic car specialist within 1 mile of my house. I never knew they were there until I bought my Buick.

May as well send the crate and torque ball by sea freight. The address is Unit 5 and 6, Unity Court, Broadmead lane, Keynsham, Bristol BS31 1FU.

 

When we know the approx weight and outer dimensions of the crate, I will ring around to get some shipping quotes.

 

Please let me know at what stage you would like me to transfer funds to your bank. In the meantime, be careful of those rusty nails sticking out the crate...they could cause you a lot of harm!

 

Cheers

Kev

 

[danhar1960]

G'day fellow '39ers.

I bought my 3.9 diff centre off a bloke that had Hot Rodded his '39 Century.

Sent him a message asking what did he do with the rear end.

Got it cheap.

You see a Hot Rodded '39, ask the question. You never know.

 Danny

 

[2carb40]

1 hour ago, danhar1960 said:

G'day fellow '39ers.

I bought my 3.9 diff centre off a bloke that had Hot Rodded his '39 Century.

Sent him a message asking what did he do with the rear end.

Got it cheap.

You see a Hot Rodded '39, ask the question. You never know.

 Danny

 

Good for you Danny! You can start a new post and we would love to hear more! Glad my deal with Kev is coming together cuz Kev and many others would like a much more rare optional '39  only 3.6 Century rear and they would not want to wait the time it would take to maybe find another as cheap(if ever) as you probably got your 3.9, but again Thanx for your input...........

[Kev Draper]

Danny - thanks for wanting to help- on this occasion 2carb40 and myself have come to an amicable agreement and I’m really chuffed that I will soon be a proud owner of a rare 3.6.1 differential.