West Peterson Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Wow!!!This morning I while the 1940 Sup 8 was running, I was making sure each plug wire was secure in the distributor by just grabbing them and pushing down. After I had gone through about three wires, I grabbed a forth and the JOLT nearly threw me across the garage. Ummm... I'm not the brightest tool in the shed, but this didn't seem right to me. We've been seeking a source for the car running slightly rough... Did I find the problem?I have no idea how old these plug wires are, but before this happened I'd been contemplating changing them just so that I know. I thought they were changed about two years ago before I got the car, but they may be 25 years old, or older. The car hasn't been driven for more than a few hundred miles in the last 25 years, and less than 1,000 miles since around 1960. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipper47 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 "Leaking" wires will contribute to rough idle so you may have found the source of the problem. Why not just change the one you got the jolt from and see if that solves the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillP Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 When I was working for a Dodge dealer back during the Civil War, I had a pair of heavy duty pliers made out of plastic. The idea was to remove & replace each wire in turn while the engine was idling. If the idle went rougher, OK. If the idle didn't change, it was likely that that plug wire was letting down the team. As you have demonstrated, trouble-shooting can be accomplished without the pliers but the method carries a degree of inherent risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Maybe that's where West gets all of his "bright" ideas. Betga that brightened your "lights" West! Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BJM Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 West,Seriously, that's a dangerous idea. Technicians have died or been seriously injured for coming in contact with up to the 40,000 volts in a bad wire. I rarely removed live wires when I was a technician. If I absolutely felt it was necessary, I used a special plastic gripped and handled tool. To find a similar leak on the modern cars I worked on, I would spray the area with a stout brake cleaner (to thoroughly dry it out) then spray water on the suspected wires and simply listen for a misfire condition.You have obviously found a problem "the hard way" so the wires need replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrpushbutton Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I knew an old mechanic who received the same jolt you describe, except that the path to ground was somewhat difficult due to the heavy rubber soles on his work boots and the next-best path was through the fabric of his slacks to......ahem.....a "member" of his anatomy, to the fender he was leaning against. This was thought to be somewhat painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wes Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 West,I have notice the insulation coating breaks down and the wires will still look good, so I would be careful and check the wires while the engine is off or with a plastic pair of pliers. I had met an old man that told me he would troubleshoot a missing engine by useing a TV to show the noise from the miss he was getting and start pulling wires and putting them back while the engine was running until the blip on the TV would go away. I was wondering if anyone can back this, because I have never tried it myself.Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share Posted June 18, 2007 I'm back from Minnesnowda, where I had the pleasurable experience of driving my brother's 1937 Packard 12 convertible victoria 110 miles to and from the AACA National Meet up there. It was a shame to have to shut it down for the meet. I just wanted to keep going!!! I need to get some plug wires for my 1940 overnighted. Where is the best place to get proper (and good) plug wires?Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 West,Seriously, that's a dangerous idea. Technicians have died or been seriously injured for coming in contact with up to the 40,000 volts in a bad wire.(quote) Can you provider proof than anyone has ever actually been killed by the ignition system on an automobile? I am incredulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigKev Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 As always it's not the voltage, it's the Amperage that kills. A stun gun can put out 100,000v from a 9v battery, but we are talking milli-amps of current there. As you increase the voltage throught the windings, the amperage drops. You can't create power from nothing, so there is that trade off. Dont get me wrong, 40,000 volts is still a nasty jolt (as in the stun-gun analogy) and if someone has a pacemaker or other heart problems, I can see where they could be in trouble.Coils (which are capacitors) are nasty things if not handled correctly. I friend of my sisters was killed when working on a elevator power supply by a capacitor. The main power was off, but there was enough stored charge in the capacitor to kill him. That kind of a industrial capacitor was much much larger than an a typical automotive coil, or a capacitor you would see on a circuit board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I was a bit of an "evil genius" as a child, always trying to blow things up with my chemistry set etc. I took a large capacitor out of a TV set, momentarily (and I mean very momentarily) plugged it into 120 and left it sit where my younger brother would pick it up. You know the rest of the story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 That why you always work with one hand so the current path doesn't go across your chest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share Posted June 18, 2007 I sure would like to know where to get some proper plug wires that work well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigKev Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Both Max Merrit and Kanters have sets, or just buy some bulk wire and make your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HH56 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Not sure what is correct for a 40 but if Kev's suggestion doesn't pan out, here is a couple more.Rhode Island Wiring and YnZ both have bulk and supplies, and would probably make you a set as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Cole Ignition makes wires also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Thanks, everyone. I've also discovered that Potomac Packard will make an authentic set as well. They're supposed to be varnished black. The cost is $45.For a quick fix, i'll run to an auto store and get a set of 7mm modern wires. While it runs pretty sweet right now, I'll let you know if it runs any better. Seems to be slightly rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_49packard Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 A real quick fix is to wrap the bad wire with electrical tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillP Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 About the claim that a coil is a capacitor. Not so. A coil is a transformer, using coils of wire around an iron core. When current flows through the coils of wire, voltage is induced into another, adjacent set of windings. Depending on number of windings, the induced voltage can change up or down; in the auto coil example, it goes from 6 or 12 volts to 30 or 40,000 volts. As stated elsewhere, as voltage goes up, current goes down proportionally, and vice versa. Functionally, a capacitor is two plates separated by a dielectric. A charge can "sit' on one side of the capacitor until a path to ground is established. This can become hazardous to the wayward technician if he presents himself as that path. Unless there is a capacitor elswhere in the circuit, a coil represents no hazard whatsoever when voltage is not present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 I was at one auto flea market a few years back, and a guy had misc new wire sets for $1 a box, so i picked up 8 boxes for 8cyl cars/trucks, and have just cut them to length and re crimp the ends back on.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Block Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">West,I have notice the insulation coating breaks down and the wires will still look good, so I would be careful and check the wires while the engine is off or with a plastic pair of pliers. I had met an old man that told me he would troubleshoot a missing engine by useing a TV to show the noise from the miss he was getting and start pulling wires and putting them back while the engine was running until the blip on the TV would go away. I was wondering if anyone can back this, because I have never tried it myself.Wes</div></div> My mustang with solid core wires would show up on the neighbor TV when i pulled in next to his trailer in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Block Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BillP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About the claim that a coil is a capacitor. Not so. A coil is a transformer, using coils of wire around an iron core. When current flows through the coils of wire, voltage is induced into another, adjacent set of windings. Depending on number of windings, the induced voltage can change up or down; in the auto coil example, it goes from 6 or 12 volts to 30 or 40,000 volts. As stated elsewhere, as voltage goes up, current goes down proportionally, and vice versa. Functionally, a capacitor is two plates separated by a dielectric. A charge can "sit' on one side of the capacitor until a path to ground is established. This can become hazardous to the wayward technician if he presents himself as that path. Unless there is a capacitor elswhere in the circuit, a coil represents no hazard whatsoever when voltage is not present. </div></div> When I work in boat and motorcucle shop, the mechanics would charge up an ign capacitor and tase it to you, Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bkazmer Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 we used to charge up a van deGraf generator (basically a big static electricity capacitor) and wait for some unsuspecting soul to walk by close enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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